Difference Between Pre and Post Law

[freeatlast]

Show me where you come to that conclusion (I suppose by 'lost' you mean unregenerate)



I assure you that we're all going to be judged by the essence of the law, that is, by our deeds:

for all of us it behoveth to be manifested before the tribunal of the Christ, that each one may receive the things done through the body, in reference to the things that he did, whether good or evil; 2 Cor 5:10

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice,
29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. Jn 5



You are still sooooo totally not 'getting it'. Ref vv 9 & 10, the context includes BOTH every soul of man that worketh evil, and, every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek:

Those described in vv13-15 are DOERS OF THE LAW, i.e, good works. See my above post, for man to do by nature the things of the law requires the supernatural birth from above, i.e., the work of the law written upon the heart, which those in vv 13-15 have.

You're 'hung up' on that word 'conscience', it seems to be causing you to have tunnel vision with the context of the passage.

Compare:

in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2:15

With:

The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God: Ro 8:16

A good conscience is a very desirable thing to have:

For our glorifying is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in holiness and sincerity of God, not in fleshly wisdom but in the grace of God, we behaved ourselves in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward. 2 Cor 1:12

having a good conscience; that, wherein ye are spoken against, they may be put to shame who revile your good manner of life in Christ. 1 Pet 3:16

Herein I also exercise myself to have a conscience void of offence toward God and men always. Acts 24:16

which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3:21

Wherefore ye must needs be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience sake. Ro 13:5

Deacons in like manner must be grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 1 Tim 3:8,9

I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers in a pure conscience, how unceasing is my remembrance of thee in my supplications, night and day 2 Tim 1:3

And Paul, looking stedfastly on the council, said, Brethren, I have lived before God in all good conscience until this day. Acts 23:1


I'm not so sure that the natural man has that sort of conscience.

By lost I mean lost. Let me point you to Romans 2:12-16

 

[HankD]

Take note though, there are DOERS of truth that do love the light, and they are drawn to it:



These DOERS of truth are the same as those DOERS of the law in Ro 2:13-15:

“for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves; in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them)”

However, DOING the truth, i.e. to do by nature the things of the law, is not inherent in unregenerate man, these deeds must be wrought in God, the work of the law must be written in their hearts.

....If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God Jn 3:3

ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 2:5

And the house, when it was in building, was built of stone made ready at the quarry; and there was neither hammer nor axe nor any tool of iron heard in the house, while it was in building. 1 Ki 6:7

"doeth the truth" - a present participle (one who practices the truth) which IMO no unregenerate human being is able to do.

Here (again IMO) is where "doing the truth" begins:

Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.​

He acknowledged the truth with no excuses.
He pleaded for mercy.​

That is what "doing-practicing the truth" (responding positively to the reproval/conviction of the Holy Spirit) is all about.​

Responding positively to the reproval of the Holy Spirit is "doing (or practicing) the truth".

The pharisee on the other hand denied the truth by trying to convince God that he was not that bad.

So, yes in my estimation the penitent man had all ready been regenerated by this moment in time and his prayer.​

One second, one minute, one hour, one day, week, month, year before, I don't know.​

Admitedly the longer the time of regeneration before the prayer of conviction of sin the more problematic (at least for us) the situation becomes in terms of salvation and the rebirth.​

HankD​

 

[Yeshua1]

good works, doing the law will NOT save ANY!

ONLY basis for being justified is by atonement of christ on the Cross, as he kept perfectly that which we can not, the law of God!

 

[kyredneck]

good works, doing the law will NOT save ANY!

I suppose by 'save' you mean regenerate, i.e., obtain eternal life.

Have you ever pondered WHY Christ would answer these questions thus?:

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, even God.
20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother. Lu 18

25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and made trial of him, saying, Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?26 And he said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. Lu 10

Or why Paul would make such a statement as this?:

.....the doers of the law shall be justified Ro 2:13

 

[Yeshua1]

I suppose by 'save' you mean regenerate, i.e., obtain eternal life.

Have you ever pondered WHY Christ would answer these questions thus?:

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, even God.
20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother. Lu 18

25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and made trial of him, saying, Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?26 And he said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. Lu 10

Or why Paul would make such a statement as this?:

.....the doers of the law shall be justified Ro 2:13

That was why jesus died on our behalf, as NONE could EVER keep the law as intended to by God, as we were ALL sinners, and weak to be able to fulfill it!

Christ kept it perfectly in our stead, and faith in Him is when the Father freely justifies us due to his obedience!

 

[kyredneck]

That was why jesus died on our behalf, as NONE could EVER keep the law as intended to by God, as we were ALL sinners, and weak to be able to fulfill it!

Christ kept it perfectly in our stead, and faith in Him is when the Father freely justifies us due to his obedience!

So the answer is no, you've never pondered the questions, you have no real answer, only a knee jerk renunciation with no scripture (as usual) and no remedy or solution for the contradiction of scripture you've implied. You just upchuck.

 

[freeatlast]

That was why jesus died on our behalf, as NONE could EVER keep the law as intended to by God, as we were ALL sinners, and weak to be able to fulfill it!

Christ kept it perfectly in our stead, and faith in Him is when the Father freely justifies us due to his obedience!

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Yeshua1]

So the answer is no, you've never pondered the questions, you have no real answer, only a knee jerk renunciation with no scripture (as usual) and no remedy or solution for the contradiction of scripture you've implied. You just upchuck.

ONLY jesus EVER kept the law as god required it to be kept in order to be able to be justifed by it!

And Even IF one could keep and obey the Law fully, impossible since we are sinners, than that would justify us for sins going forward, but we STILL would be found guity of having the Lord imputing sin of Adam unto us, we would NEVER be able to pay off that debt!

 

[thomas15]

So the answer is no, you've never pondered the questions, you have no real answer, only a knee jerk renunciation with no scripture (as usual) and no remedy or solution for the contradiction of scripture you've implied. You just upchuck.

Question? Have you ever tried ex-lax? That's a remedy!

 

[Yeshua1]

So the answer is no, you've never pondered the questions, you have no real answer, only a knee jerk renunciation with no scripture (as usual) and no remedy or solution for the contradiction of scripture you've implied. You just upchuck.

I have thought about getting justifed before God by keeping the law, or be being obedient to Him, but whever I think one could be...

just sinned, thinking could do that!

 

[kyredneck]

I have thought about getting justifed before God by keeping the law, or be being obedient to Him...

....is not the same as 'doing by nature' the things of the law.

The Samaritan acted out of compassion, by nature of his heart, to help him who had fallen to the robbers. The priest and the Levite went to the other side of the road and walked on by.

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

 

[Yeshua1]

....is not the same as 'doing by nature' the things of the law.

The Samaritan acted out of compassion, by nature of his heart, to help him who had fallen to the robbers. The priest and the Levite went to the other side of the road and walked on by.

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

Still no good, as sinners, we needed an atonement for all sins done, and to cancel out debt to God of our sin natures!

 

[kyredneck]

Still no good, as sinners, we needed an atonement for all sins done, and to cancel out debt to God of our sin natures!

More knee jerk renunciation from you with no scripture.

I assure you those with the law written in their hearts have been atoned for:

And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins. Mt 1:21

 

[Yeshua1]

More knee jerk renunciation from you with no scripture.

I assure you those with the law written in their hearts have been atoned for:

And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins. Mt 1:21

The law is written on the new hearts that come to us once born again!

That happens when we place faith in jesus!

 

[kyredneck]

JF, the knee jerk renunciator....

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1839482&highlight=regeneration#post1839482

 

[Yeshua1]

JF, the knee jerk renunciator....

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1839482&highlight=regeneration#post1839482

Believe on the lord jesus, and you shall be saved, ALL who received Him, God made them children of God...

search the NT, NEVER a passage that even implies one can be christian apart from placing faith in jesus!