Jesus/God in Hell?

[Steadfast Fred]

What about a person who has never heard the truth? A person who let us say is a Catholic, but did not believe in all the Catholics taught, but did believe in God and Jesus. Let us say that person did not do all those sins as mentioned in Romans 1, but who also did not really know God. What about that person? Are you saying that Catholic is saved, or that person is going to go to hell then the lake of fire?
Please make sure you explain why, and try to use scripture.

Those who belieive in God or Jesus but do not know them; i.e., have a personal relationship with Him, are just as doomed as those who choose the worship buddha, allah, or any other pagan god. Those who have never heard of Jesus or God are still guilty.

God has revealed enough about Himself through His creation that not one man, woman or child has an excuse as to why they do not know God. Romans 1-3 is clear... All have sinned, all have been found guilty. God revealed Himself to all that all might come to Him. But not all will come to Him that they might have life. Some became vain in their imaginations and turned their backs on God.

They would not seek after HIm. That is not His fault. He revealed Himself to man in nature, in history, and in His people. Those who don't know Christ don't know Him because they choose not to know Him.

And if they continue in their foolish choice, they will die in their sins and will go to hell with no chance of Salvation whatsoever.

 

[Moriah]

Those who belieive in God or Jesus but do not know them; i.e., have a personal relationship with Him, are just as doomed as those who choose the worship buddha, allah, or any other pagan god. Those who have never heard of Jesus or God are still guilty.

God has revealed enough about Himself through His creation that not one man, woman or child has an excuse as to why they do not know God. Romans 1-3 is clear... All have sinned, all have been found guilty. God revealed Himself to all that all might come to Him. But not all will come to Him that they might have life. Some became vain in their imaginations and turned their backs on God.

They would not seek after HIm. That is not His fault. He revealed Himself to man in nature, in history, and in His people. Those who don't know Christ don't know Him because they choose not to know Him.

And if they continue in their foolish choice, they will die in their sins and will go to hell with no chance of Salvation whatsoever.

I knew you could not/would not answer the question I gave.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I answered the question.

Why are you bearing false witness?

 

[The Biblicist]

Romans 1:18-20 IS about people who do all kinds of evil sins. Not everyone's hearts are darkened.

Find anyone between Romans 1:18 and Romans 3;23 whose heart is not darkened? I dare you to point the verse out. Those in Romans 1:1-17 are SAVED persons.

You have no idea what you are talking about! Look at the preceding introduction in Romans 1:15-17. Can't you see that beginning in verse 18 Paul is developing the case for why all men everywhere need to hear the gospel??? Romans 1:18-3:23 is a systematic developed argument why ALL MEN, whether they are Gentiles or Jews need to have the gospel preached to them. If you can't see that you can't see anything.

Romans 1:18-32 is the response of natural man to natural light regardless if that man is a Gentile or Jew or YOU! No man is born thankful to God. No man is born submissive to God. All humans are born with a nature to REPRESS and REJECT the truth revealed to them. All humans are idolaters and immoral including YOU.

Find this person who is "good" in Romans 1:18-3:23

 

[Moriah]

I answered the question.

Why are you bearing false witness?

You are the one who is bearing false witness. Answer the question with the exact examples I gave.

 

[Fred's Wife]

You are the one who is bearing false witness. Answer the question with the exact examples I gave.

Every single question you have asked has already been answered many times over and you have rejected every single answer that has been given to you. It is obvious that you really don't want answers, you want followers, people who just want their "itching ears tickled" and will reciprocate by "tickling your itching ears". Sorry, but I'm not interested in playing your games.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Your example was 'a Catholic who believes in God and Jesus, but does not know God."

I answered. That person, if he or she continues in the same mode, "believing, but not knowing", will end up in hell with no hopes of Salvation.

Those who don't have a relationship with Christ are not of Christ. The hypothetical example you gave reveals a person who has a appearance of godliness, but denies the power. More than likely because his or her Catholic beliefs have them believing in a false Christ... one that allows the worship of idols such as their 'Queen of Heaven". The Jesus that saves is not that Jesus.

 

[Moriah]

Every single question you have asked has already been answered many times over and you have rejected every single answer that has been given to you.

The questions were not answered like I gave them.

It is obvious that you really don't want answers, you want followers,

What a terrible thing to say, that I want followers! No one here even knows my real name. I just want to help others to know God’s Truth. I am sharing everything God revealed to me, I am sharing it with people here who do not even like me.

people who just want their "itching ears tickled" and will reciprocate by "tickling your itching ears". Sorry, but I'm not interested in playing your games.

That is not true.

 

[The Biblicist]

You want to preach how God judges, so make sure you answer my question about the Catholic. Here it is in more detail.
What about a person who has never heard the truth?

Outside of dying infants or those incapable of mental comprehension who have died there is no such person that has never heard the truth - no such person exists anywhere at anytime in the history of the world.

1. Every human being has been presented the truth as revealed in nature.

2. Every human being has been presented the truth as revealed in conscience

3. What sends a person to hell is SIN against the light of truth they receive.

Every human being responds the very same way to these truths revealed in nature and in conscience - THEY REPRESS THEM, rebell against them because they are born into this world SINNERS BY NATURE and that is the response of sinners to light given them - Jn. 3:19-20. Only those in whom God makes a difference respond any differently.

A person who let us say is a Catholic, but did not believe in all the Catholics taught, but did believe in God and Jesus.

Before he believed in God and Jesus HE ALREADY COMMITTED the foundational sins in Romans 1:18-22. He was not born into this world as a believer in God but he was born into this world with a sinful nature manifested by those sins listed in Romans 1:18-22.

He rejected the light in nature.
He rejected the light in conscience
He refused to give God the glory
He refused to be thankful
He did not know God of the Bible but changed the glory of God into SELF-ishness and SELF-centeredness and SELF-satisfaction.

Let us say that person did not do all those sins as mentioned in Romans 1,

No one is saying that every person commits all the sins listed in Romans 1;18-32.

Read carefully what I am going to say. Romans 1:18-32 identifies four different stages of development in corruption. All human beings are sinners by nature as defined by stage one. However, they can develop into greater corruption in sin by the next three stages as God gives them over to each stage of greater corruption:


1. Stage one - Universal repressing and resistance by all men - Rom. 1:18-23
2. Stage two - "God gave them up to" - Rom. 1:24-25
3. Stage three - "God gave them over to" - Romans 1:26-27
4. Stage four - "God gave them over to" - Romans 1:28-32

but who also did not really know God.

There is no such person who does not know God that does not know sin as defined in stage one - Romans 1:18-23.

What part of the words "There is NONE, NO, NOT ONE" that you do not understand?

What part of the words "for there is NO DIFFERENCE for ALL have sinned" that you do not understand?

What part of the words "NO FLESH" do you think includes SOME flesh?

What part of the word "ALL THE WORLD" do you think excludes SOME of the world?

What part of the words "EVERY MOUTH" do you think means there are SOME mouths excluded?

Are you saying that Catholic is saved, or that person is going to go to hell then the lake of fire?
Please make sure you explain why, and try to use scripture.

Every person who sins against WHATEVER light they are given are condemned and worthy of hell due to that sin and will justly go to hell unless God by his grace reveals Himself to them through the gospel.

Every person who rejects the gospel was already condemned by all previous sins to hearing the gospel and would have gone to hell whether he heard the gospel or not.

Sin is what condemns you to hell not whether you hear or do not hear the gospel.

Scripture? John 3:17-19 - they are CONDEMNED ALREADY because they are born into this world in UNBELIEF as defined in Romans 1:18-23 even before they hear the gospel. If they never hear the gospel they will never be condemned for rejecting the gospel but they will go to hell for what they are condemend for - sin - and their judgement in hell will be according to their sins.

 

[Moriah]

Outside of dying infants or those incapable of mental comprehension who have died there is no such person that has never heard the truth - no such person exists anywhere at anytime in the history of the world.

That is not true. I come from ancestors who are Catholic, as a Catholic they were not even allowed to listen to another denominations beliefs.

1. Every human being has been presented the truth as revealed in nature.

That is about knowing there is a God.

2. Every human being has been presented the truth as revealed in conscience

That is about right and wrong.

3. What sends a person to hell is SIN against the light of truth they receive.

Therefore, you believe all who believe in God no matter what religion is saved.

Every human being responds the very same way to these truths revealed in nature and in conscience - THEY REPRESS THEM, rebell against them because they are born into this world SINNERS BY NATURE and that is the response of sinners to light given them - Jn. 3:19-20.

Not all repress them, that is a manufactured belief. The Bible tells us there are those who come to the light.

Only those in whom God makes a difference respond any differently.

The Bible does NOT say God saves someone first then at that same time cause them to believe and obey. That is against the Word of God.

Before he believed in God and Jesus HE ALREADY COMMITTED the foundational sins in Romans 1:18-22.

Foundational sins you say, please do not add to the Bible when you debate with me.

He was not born into this world as a believer in God but he was born into this world with a sinful nature manifested by those sins listed in Romans 1:18-22.

I did not exchange the truth of God for a lie, nor did I not want to give God thanks, my heart was not darkened. God did not give me over to sinful desires He saved me. I did not think it was not worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God. You are speaking of those who did NOT want to come to the light. Not everyone does not want to come to the light. The written word of God says everyone who lives by the truth comes into the light. Some live by the truth and come to the light. NOWHERE does that scripture say God made them come to the light.

There is no such person who does not know God that does not know sin as defined in stage one - Romans 1:18-23.

There are people who do not know the true gospel.

What part of the words "There is NONE, NO, NOT ONE" that you do not understand? What part of the words "for there is NO DIFFERENCE for ALL have sinned" that you do not understand?

Paul was quoting the Old Testament that says there is not a righteous person who does not ever sin. For instance, Noah was a righteous man. That does not mean he never sinned. That is what Paul is explaining. Paul was not explaining that God saved Noah first, and then made him a righteous man. That is NOT biblical, that is total depravity teaching from false teachers.

Every person who sins against WHATEVER light they are given are condemned and worthy of hell due to that sin and will justly go to hell unless God by his grace reveals Himself to them through the gospel.

You have not answered the question as given, I said Catholics, Catholics who believe in God and Jesus Christ.

Every person who rejects the gospel was already condemned by all previous sins to hearing the gospel and would have gone to hell whether he heard the gospel or not.

What you say there makes no sense, and I am sure if we discussed more about what you said right there that it is rooted in the false doctrine called total depravity.

Sin is what condemns you to hell not whether you hear or do not hear the gospel.

Faith comes from hearing. The world’s sin in unbelief in Jesus.

 

[The Biblicist]

U

That is not true. I come from ancestors who are Catholic, as a Catholic they were not even allowed to listen to another denominations beliefs.


That is about knowing there is a God.

That is about right and wrong.



Therefore, you believe all who believe in God no matter what religion is saved.

There is NONE that enter this world believing in God. Find any exception given in Romans 1:18-21 where ANYONE received the truth revealed by nature or by conscience??? YOU CANNOT becauese no such human exists. Read it and try to find where Paul says ANYONE responds differently than what the describes in Romans 1:18-23? You CANNOT find him offering ANY contrary example.

So, there are none that believe in God as God is revealed in nature or in Scripture because they are born with a nature that is at enmity to God and is not subject to the law of God = that is the NATURAL MIND not just SOME PEOPLE'S minds.

Not all repress them, that is a manufactured belief. The Bible tells us there are those who come to the light.

Find any exception offered by Paul in Romans 1:18-32? Find any exception offered by Paul in Romans 3:9-23? Find any exception offered by Paul in Romans 8:7-9 other than those "in the Spirit"? You can't? So why are you giving me YOUR OPINION and not the Word of God?

The Bible does NOT say God saves someone first then at that same time cause them to believe and obey. That is against the Word of God.

I never said that. Find anywhere in my post I said that. Stop adding to my words. Stop telling me what I said when I never said such a thing! All I said was God must seek you first or you will never seek him.

Foundational sins you say, please do not add to the Bible when you debate with me.

You added to Romans 1:18-32 exceptions which cannot be found there! You added to Romans 3:9-23 which includes "ALL THE WORLD" and "EVERY MOUTH" so that "NO FLESH" is excepted and "NONE, NO NOT ONE" are excluded! You added exceptions when the Word of God gave no exceptions in Romans 1:18-32 or Romans 3:9-23.

So I won't use the term "foundational" but will say the same thing by saying every human being holds down the truth revealed by nature and by conscience and this is self-evident because every human being needs to be SAVED from that very condition.

I did not exchange the truth of God for a lie, nor did I not want to give God thanks, my heart was not darkened.

Either God's word is lying or you are lying! you are lying (not intentionally but just deceived). In your lost condition your only god was YOU and you proved it by your SINS. If you did not exchange the truth of God for a lie then you NEVER NEEDED TO BE SAVED and were NEVER LOST and that is a lie! If you were not unthankful then you were NEVER LOST and NEVER needed to be saved as the lost condition is a SELFISH condition. Your utterly deceived and spiritually blinded and it is so obvious as you are basically denying YOU WERE EVER A LOST SINNER and no such human is ever born into this world in any other condition but a LOST SINNER.

A LOST SINNER is a self-centered (thus unthankful) and thus a Self-WORSHIPPER (thus changing the truth of God into SELF).

God did not give me over to sinful desires He saved me.

He gave you over to something worse - FALSE RELIGION - by your own admission you were in false religions previously (and you still are).

I did not think it was not worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God.

When you refused to believe in God and violated your conscience that was rejection of the knowlege of God. Unbelief is rejection of the knowledge of God! Are you going to tell us with a straight face you were never in UNBELEIF?????????

You are speaking of those who did NOT want to come to the light. Not everyone does not want to come to the light.

Are you really that spiritually blind???? NO HUMAN IS BORN INTO THE LIGHT when they come into this world. Every UNBELIEVER is in darkness! Are you going to tell us you came into this world as a believer? Are you seriously going to tell us that you were not an UNBELIEVER until salvation? When you were in UNBELIEF, that is the essence of refusal to come to the light of conscience, in nature and when scripture was revealed to you in your previous admittedly false religions!

 

[The Biblicist]

Outside of dying infants or those incapable of mental comprehension who have died there is no such person that has never heard the truth - no such person exists anywhere at anytime in the history of the world.

1. Every human being has been presented the truth as revealed in nature.

2. Every human being has been presented the truth as revealed in conscience

3. What sends a person to hell is SIN against the light of truth they receive.

Every human being responds the very same way to these truths revealed in nature and in conscience - THEY REPRESS THEM, rebell against them because they are born into this world SINNERS BY NATURE and that is the response of sinners to light given them - Jn. 3:19-20. Only those in whom God makes a difference respond any differently.






Before he believed in God and Jesus HE ALREADY COMMITTED the foundational sins in Romans 1:18-22. He was not born into this world as a believer in God but he was born into this world with a sinful nature manifested by those sins listed in Romans 1:18-22.

He rejected the light in nature.
He rejected the light in conscience
He refused to give God the glory
He refused to be thankful
He did not know God of the Bible but changed the glory of God into SELF-ishness and SELF-centeredness and SELF-satisfaction.





No one is saying that every person commits all the sins listed in Romans 1;18-32.

Read carefully what I am going to say. Romans 1:18-32 identifies four different stages of development in corruption. All human beings are sinners by nature as defined by stage one. However, they can develop into greater corruption in sin by the next three stages as God gives them over to each stage of greater corruption:


1. Stage one - Universal repressing and resistance by all men - Rom. 1:18-23
2. Stage two - "God gave them up to" - Rom. 1:24-25
3. Stage three - "God gave them over to" - Romans 1:26-27
4. Stage four - "God gave them over to" - Romans 1:28-32







There is no such person who does not know God that does not know sin as defined in stage one - Romans 1:18-23.

What part of the words "There is NONE, NO, NOT ONE" that you do not understand?

What part of the words "for there is NO DIFFERENCE for ALL have sinned" that you do not understand?

What part of the words "NO FLESH" do you think includes SOME flesh?

What part of the word "ALL THE WORLD" do you think excludes SOME of the world?

What part of the words "EVERY MOUTH" do you think means there are SOME mouths excluded?





Every person who sins against WHATEVER light they are given are condemned and worthy of hell due to that sin and will justly go to hell unless God by his grace reveals Himself to them through the gospel.

Every person who rejects the gospel was already condemned by all previous sins to hearing the gospel and would have gone to hell whether he heard the gospel or not.

Sin is what condemns you to hell not whether you hear or do not hear the gospel.

Scripture? John 3:17-19 - they are CONDEMNED ALREADY because they are born into this world in UNBELIEF as defined in Romans 1:18-23 even before they hear the gospel. If they never hear the gospel they will never be condemned for rejecting the gospel but they will go to hell for what they are condemend for - sin - and their judgement in hell will be according to their sins.

I asked you to read this post carefully before you responded. It was obvious from your post you did not. You don't even understand what I said. REad it again until at least you understand what I am saying. Ask the Lord to give you understanding.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

The god and Jesus christ of the Catholics is a god who allows a woman to usurp authority over Him... that woman being the Catholic's "Queen of Heaven".

That "Queen of Heaven" promises people that if they serve her faithfully, she will deliver their souls from a non-existent place fabricated by the Catholic church that they call purgatory.

That Queen of Heaven promises people that if they serve her faithfully, she will keep them from hell.

Obviously, that is not the God of Christianity... not even close.

So you see, the hypothetical believing Catholic you give as an example could never be saved beliving the god and the Jesus christ that they believe in.

 

[Moriah]

The god and Jesus christ of the Catholics is a god who allows a woman to usurp authority over Him... that woman being the Catholic's "Queen of Heaven".

That "Queen of Heaven" promises people that if they serve her faithfully, she will deliver their souls from a non-existent place fabricated by the Catholic church that they call purgatory.

That Queen of Heaven promises people that if they serve her faithfully, she will keep them from hell.

Obviously, that is not the God of Christianity... not even close.

So you see, the hypothetical believing Catholic you give as an example could never be saved beliving the god and the Jesus christ that they believe in.

I know what the Catholics believe, and I told you about a Catholic who did not believe EVERYTHING the Catholics taught.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I know what the Catholics believe, and I told you about a Catholic who did not believe EVERYTHING the Catholics taught.

I know what you told me. But the fact is, if that person did not believe everything the Catholics believer and he or she believed in the Jesus Christ of the Bible, that person would not be a Catholic.

So your example actually contradicts itself.

 

[Moriah]

There is NONE that enter this world believing in God.

There you go again with that strange debate tactic where you act as if you are correcting me with something. Where have I ever said anyone comes into the world believing in God?

Find any exception given in Romans 1:18-21 where ANYONE received the truth revealed by nature or by conscience??? YOU CANNOT becauese no such human exists.

I cannot make sense out of what you say here.

Read it and try to find where Paul says ANYONE responds differently than what the describes in Romans 1:18-23? You CANNOT find him offering ANY contrary example.

Paul is talking about those who reject God. Not everyone rejects God. If everyone rejected God, then no one would be saved. You are stuck in total depravity beliefs.

So, there are none that believe in God as God is revealed in nature or in Scripture because they are born with a nature that is at enmity to God and is not subject to the law of God = that is the NATURAL MIND not just SOME PEOPLE'S minds.

Not everyone as you say.

Find any exception offered by Paul in Romans 1:18-32? Find any exception offered by Paul in Romans 3:9-23? Find any exception offered by Paul in Romans 8:7-9 other than those "in the Spirit"? You can't? So why are you giving me YOUR OPINION and not the Word of God?

Read what Jesus says in John 3:21.

I never said that. Find anywhere in my post I said that. Stop adding to my words. Stop telling me what I said when I never said such a thing! All I said was God must seek you first or you will never seek him.

You have debated me in other threads were you say God saves us and at that exact time we can believe and obey God. God does not save us first as you say. You even say the same thing here when you say God must seek us first or you will never seek him. That is not scriptural. God searches our hearts. If we are all totally depraved as you say, then what is God searching our hearts?
1 Chronicles 28:9 for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts.

Psalm 7:9 O righteous God, who searches minds and hearts, bring to an end the violence of the wicked and make the righteous secure.

Proverbs 20:27 The lamp of the LORD searches the spirit of a man; it searches out his inmost being.

John 4:23 yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

God seeks us, and we can seek God.
1 Chronicles 28:9 "And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

You added to Romans 1:18-32 exceptions which cannot be found there!

No, I did not. It is obvious not all are darkened, or else no one would be saved.

You added to Romans 3:9-23 which includes "ALL THE WORLD" and "EVERY MOUTH" so that "NO FLESH" is excepted and "NONE, NO NOT ONE" are excluded! You added exceptions when the Word of God gave no exceptions in Romans 1:18-32 or Romans 3:9-23.

No, I did not. I explained that Paul was quoting the Old Testament.

So I won't use the term "foundational" but will say the same thing by saying every human being holds down the truth revealed by nature and by conscience and this is self-evident because every human being needs to be SAVED from that very condition.

Not everyone holds down the truth revealed by nature.

Either God's word is lying or you are lying! you are lying (not intentionally but just deceived). In your lost condition your only god was YOU and you proved it by your SINS.

I was taught there was a God and the Son, Jesus Christ since a young child. I lived a life conscious of Jesus at all times, and did not want to exchange the truth for a lie, as you say.

If you did not exchange the truth of God for a lie then you NEVER NEEDED TO BE SAVED and were NEVER LOST and that is a lie!

I was taught about God and Jesus as an infant. How would you ever get that a person does not need to be saved.

If you were not unthankful then you were NEVER LOST and NEVER needed to be saved as the lost condition is a SELFISH condition.

I was taught about God and Jesus as an infant.

Your utterly deceived and spiritually blinded and it is so obvious as you are basically denying YOU WERE EVER A LOST SINNER and no such human is ever born into this world in any other condition but a LOST SINNER.

You are getting back to the same old debate tactics with the rude remarks. I never denied I was ever a sinner. I never said I was born into this world already saved. You make up things to argue, maybe because you cannot see past what your religion has taught you to think and say.

A LOST SINNER is a self-centered (thus unthankful) and thus a Self-WORSHIPPER (thus changing the truth of God into SELF).

I did not do that.

He gave you over to something worse - FALSE RELIGION - by your own admission you were in false religions previously (and you still are).

I am not in a false religion anymore, so that proves you are wrong about God giving me over to it.

When you refused to believe in God and violated your conscience that was rejection of the knowlege of God. Unbelief is rejection of the knowledge of God! Are you going to tell us with a straight face you were never in UNBELEIF?????????

As I have been telling you, I was taught about God and Jesus since I was an infant. I always believed there was a God and Jesus. There was a short time after my dad died that I stopped believing in God, but that did not last long. You are wrong about me.

Are you really that spiritually blind???? NO HUMAN IS BORN INTO THE LIGHT when they come into this world.

Are you spiritually blind and physically blind? Where did I say a person is born a believer? You speak unreasonable nonsense.

Every UNBELIEVER is in darkness! Are you going to tell us you came into this world as a believer? Are you seriously going to tell us that you were not an UNBELIEVER until salvation? When you were in UNBELIEF, that is the essence of refusal to come to the light of conscience, in nature and when scripture was revealed to you in your previous admittedly false religions!

As I have been telling you, a person has to do more than just believe.

 

[Moriah]

I know what you told me. But the fact is, if that person did not believe everything the Catholics believer and he or she believed in the Jesus Christ of the Bible, that person would not be a Catholic.

So your example actually contradicts itself.

You are wrong about saying a Catholic is not a Catholic if they do not believe everything the Catholics teach. Some Catholics do not even know everything the Catholic religion believes.

 

[Fred's Wife]

You are wrong about saying a Catholic is not a Catholic if they do not believe everything the Catholics teach. Some Catholics do not even know everything the Catholic religion believes.

That's not what SF said. Go back and read his post SLOWLY and make sure you understand what it says. You continue to twist what is being said.

IOW, the Catholics do not believe in the Jesus of the Bible.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

A Catholic who comes to a saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ will not remain in the Catholic church because the Lord would convict them of being there.

The Holy Spirit guides the true believer into all truth. He would let the saved person know that the Catholic church is full of idolatry and that the believer is not to fellowship with such.

2 Corinthians 6:16 (KJV) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

The only way they would be received of the Father is if they left the idolatrous organization. Otherwise, they would prove they were not sons and God was not their Father.

 

[The Biblicist]

There you go again with that strange debate tactic where you act as if you are correcting me with something. Where have I ever said anyone comes into the world believing in God?...............

Paul is talking about those who reject God. Not everyone rejects God. If everyone rejected God, then no one would be saved. You are stuck in total depravity beliefs.

You are contadicting yourself! In the first quotation above you acknolwedge that all come into the world as unbelievers while in the second quotation you deny all come into the world as God rejectors (unbelievers).

Paul claims there is "NONE, NO, NOT ONE" among both Jews and Gentiles that do not fit this description - Rom. 3:9-20 but YOU DO!

Paul is not talking about SOME specially wicked people but "ALL THE WORLD" and excluding "NO FLESH" and including "EVERY MOUTH" while you call Paul an outright liar by denying those "Jew and gentile" include ALL THE WORLD but only a special wicked class! Can't you understand "ALL THE WORLD" does not mean JUST SOME SPECIAL WICKED CLASS?

Can't you understand that "EVERY MOUTH" does not simply refer to SOME special wicked class?

Can't you understand that "NO FLESH" does not simply refer to SOME flesh that is extradorinarily wicked??

HE IS TALKING ABOUT MORIAH - YOU and EVERY OTHER HUMAN BEING EVER BORN AND WILL BE BORN. He is quoting from Psalm 14:2 where God looked down from heaven upon "THE CHIDLREN OF MEN" not Jews, not Gentiles but MEN in general and God saw NONE, NO NOT ONE who were seekers, good, as you keep erroneously claiming there are such!

Jesus said to a very religious man that "THERE IS NONE GOD but ONE and that is God." Jesus denie the rich young ruler was a "good" person and that you are a "good" person. That is why sinners must be saved by "GRACE" and "MERCY" because there are NONE, NO NOT ONE good, righteuos or seekers.


Go ahead and fine these so called good persons that are not ungodly in Romans 1:18-3:23! Go ahead an attempt to contradict Paul's universal language "ALL the world" "no flesh" and "every mouth" and "NONE, NO, NOT ONE" and produce these so-called good people seeking righteousness and God in this context of sin and salvation context? I dare you to point them out.


I don't want YOUR EXPLANATION, I want SCRIPTURE from this context (Rom. 1:18-3:23) where those you claim are EXCEPTIONS to this universal rule of Paul of "all the world" and "no flesh" and "every mouth" and "Gentile and Jew" - give scripture not your opinion!