Protestant exclusion from RC communion

[The Biblicist]

According to your criterion then, you are the only one in the whole world who is rightly dividing the word of truth -- or those who believe exactly as you do.

Maybe you don't believe that we all see through a glass, darkly.

You missed the point! Anyone in the world who has studied a particular Biblical text correctly will come to the same truth as God is not the Author of confusion and no text of scripture teaches contradictory principles or precepts. Therefore any truth that YOU and I agree on due to our own personal study of a particular Biblical text will be arrived at because neither of us violated basic rules of Biblical interpetation. Where we contradict each other on a particular text or doctrine is due to one or both of us violating common sense rules of interpretation and thus eisgesis instead of exegesis. The problem of eisgesis is not merely a problem of mechanical approach but may also be a spiritual problem where the heart is antagonistic to truth as clearly spelled out in the scriptures and thus a refusal of the mind to receive what it sees.

 

[The Biblicist]

And you are putting words in my mouth and beliefs in my mind that are not there.

I am saying you are abusing John 3:8 and applying it where God's Word did not apply that text. You used it to teach the false doctrine that God can use material things to convey actual saving grace and anyone who says differently is restricting the Spirit of God which you jerk John 3:8 out of context to confirm your argument.

John 3:8 has to do with God's will in regeneration rather than man's will - Jn. 1:13.

 

[The Biblicist]

You are preaching to the choir. I do not believe in the RC sacramental system.

Why then support the principle of it by claiming God can use material means to convey saving grace?? That was your comment in this context of debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Biblicist
The "blessedness" is imputed righteousness and remission of sins and that blessed state is conveyed WITHOUT divine ordinances as the ABSOLUTE for justification by faith before and after the cross to all who are the children of Abraham among both Jews and Gentiles - vv. 9-12. The "sign" and "seal" of divine ordinances merely give testimony of the "righteousness" already "HAD" by justification through faith and that is the silver stake driven into the heart of the Roman Catholic heart of sacramentalism.

I believe that God can and does work through the physical. However, I don't think that is within man's power to control. The Spirit blows where it wills, not where man wills that it should blow! - MW

 

[Michael Wrenn]

You missed the point! Anyone in the world who has studied a particular Biblical text correctly will come to the same truth as God is not the Author of confusion and no text of scripture teaches contradictory principles or precepts. Therefore any truth that YOU and I agree on due to our own personal study of a particular Biblical text will be arrived at because neither of us violated basic rules of Biblical interpetation. Where we contradict each other on a particular text or doctrine is due to one or both of us violating common sense rules of interpretation and thus eisgesis instead of exegesis. The problem of eisgesis is not merely a problem of mechanical approach but may also be a spiritual problem where the heart is antagonistic to truth as clearly spelled out in the scriptures and thus a refusal of the mind to receive what it sees.

I don't think it's that simple or clear-cut. If it was, only one person or one group would be 100% correct. I know that's not the case. God is infallible, but man isn't. We don't come to the scriptures in a vacuum; we come with our own unique backgrounds, personalities, experiences, biases which shape and color our interpretations. Yes, the Holy Spirit can and does work through that, but no one and no group 100% correctly interprets scripture. If that were true, there would be only one denomination.

 

[The Biblicist]

I don't think it's that simple or clear-cut. If it was, only one person or one group would be 100% correct. I know that's not the case. God is infallible, but man isn't. We don't come to the scriptures in a vacuum; we come with our own unique backgrounds, personalities, experiences, biases which shape and color our interpretations. Yes, the Holy Spirit can and does work through that, but no one and no group 100% correctly interprets scripture. If that were true, there would be only one denomination.

Again, you have missed my point entirely. Your background does not CHANGE GOD'S TRUTH one bit! The scriptures will read the same and teach the same truth when you are dead and buried.

The Scriptures are not MOLDED by your background because the truth of Scriptures does not depend on anything in your background or upon you at all.

It is YOU that must conform your mind to the Word of God if you wish to understand the truth of scripture. That approach is called EXEGESIS. Your approach is called EISGESIS where you bring all you background baggage and READ IT INTO the text.

If a Roman Catholic and Assembly of God study a particular text and if they apply proper exegesis to the text they will come to the same truth that has been written into the text. What other scripture texts they may disagree about is due to one or both following EISGETICAL methods or a spiritual impasse that refuses to acknowlege what can be clearly seen stated exegetically.