We have answered these verses you have abused many times over. Re-answering them will not going to help you see what you obviously are incapable of seeing or understanding regardless how many times we expose your erroneous intepretations.
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The Abrahamic Problem
- Thread starter The Biblicist
- Start date
We have answered these verses you have abused many times over. Re-answering them will not going to help you see what you obviously are incapable of seeing or understanding regardless how many times we expose your erroneous intepretations.
Salvation is by faith and faith alone.
Your works do not prove that you are saved. You are not saved by your works. That is heresy. Look at what Jesus said;
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Depart from me I never knew you.
Those that had works were those that would be cast into the lake of fire.
Why?
They never had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
In that respect, he didn't know them. They did many works, even in His name, but they didn't know him personally. Their works were as filthy rags. Works don't save.
Those God saved He foreknew "according to His purpose" before the world began - Eph. 1:4; Rom. 8:28-30; 2 Thes. 2:13.
Paul explicitly states that those whom "HE FOREKNEW" are those he did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son = this where good works are involved but foreknowledge PRECEDING that - Rom. 8:29.
The only ones He "NEVER KNEW" are those who come before him claiming entrance due to claiming faith with works - Mt. 7:21-23. That is YOU!
You are just wrong!
This is utterly amazing logic!?!! You are actually claiming that the OMNISCIENT God is an IGNORAMOUS of the very people He will save and thus not omnisicient! Utterly amazing ignorance.
Not one of these scriptures teach one must obey God in order to be saved. They all teach that the saved obey his command. However, you are incapable of understanding the difference. Tell me, do you breath in order to obtain life or do you breath because you are alive? If you can understand the difference then there is hope for you to understand the difference between obeying commandments in order to be saved (which is a false doctrine) and obeying him because that is what saved people do.
I wish you had that ability but you don't.
If a person does not obey Jesus, that person will not remain in his love, see John 15:10 f you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.First, he is talking to those who are already known of God and have their names written in heaven.
Second, Jesus did not obey the Father IN ORDER TO be His Son but BECAUSE HE WAS His Son.
Third, Jesus did not obey the Father IN ORDER TBTAIN His love BECAUSE he was beloved of the Father in heaven BEFORE he came to earth.
Fourth, in this context he is talking about HOW TO BEAR FRUIT not how to be saved and how to abide in the SPECIAL MANIFEST PRESENCE of God, or retain your JOY and experience ANSWERED PRAYERS as Jesus enjoyed.
He is not talking about how to be saved, or remain saved but how to live in the manifest BLESSINGS of God's presence so that YOUR JOY MAY BE FULL.
This text does not say one must keep his comandments in order to be saved as your attempting to force it to say. It merely says those who claim to know him in salvation but do not obey him are liars. I believe that, I preach that, and it only provides assurance that you are saved not the conditions to be saved. However, you don't know the difference and so it will fly right over your head.
I never contradicted anything I said. You simply don't understand what I said.
When you mix your IMPERFECT works with the PERFECT works of Christ it is the "sand" foundation or a MIXTURE that won't work because it mixes sin and righteousness together which is like mixing pure water together with muddy water = iniquity.
Inquity is simply sin.
It is about believing and obeying God. It has always been that way, and it will always be that way. It was that way from the beginning in the Garden of Eden, it was that way with the time of Noah, and it was that for Enoch, Abraham, Moses, Job, Jacob, Isaiah, Solomon, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, John, Peter, Paul, James, all of them.
What has been taught by DHK and Biblicist is a bunch of unsound doctrines. I want to encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
No, salvation has always been about Christ and Christ alone. No one is denying obedience to God's Commands is man's responsibility. That is a given.
However, what is being debated here is the PURPOSE for keeping God's commandments. Moriah is teaching a false gospel BECAUSE he makes obedience the MEANS to be saved rather than the fruits of LOVE for God and thus the product of SALVATION as Paul explicitly states in Ephesians 2:10 "created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works."
Every text given by Moriah has been dealt with fairly and demontrated that in its context that none teach works obtain salvation but rather good works are what saved people do out of love for God.
You sure do deny obedience to God’s commands. God says believe. You say, “No, we cannot, but if you save me first and cause me to believe I will.” God says obey. You say, “No, we cannot, but if you save me first I will obey.”
God saves those who love Him. We are not even known by God unless we obey. God gives the Holy Spirit to those who love Him and this is by obeying.
Someone wants to know how to be saved, the Bible says believe and obey. Biblicist says you can do nothing but wait until God gives you the gift first. What you teach is harmful backwards doctrine that mocks God.
We are to obey God before, during, and after salvation. There is never a time it is okay not to obey God, it does not cause one to be saved, as your backwards teachings imply. It is ALWAYS right to obey God, and not something that gets one condemned, as you teach.
What do you not get that you are not even known by God unless you love Him by obeying? How do you think you will receive His Spirit if He does not know you?
The works that have nothing to do with salvation anymore is circumcision, observance of special day, sin offerings, gift offerings, etc, those things are works that do not save, nor keep us in relationship with God. Believing and obeying Jesus is what keeps us in a relationship with God.
This abuse of scripture has been thoroughly dealt with in a previous post that you have not even responded to.
No man loves God.
Therefore God will not save anyone.
Therefore heaven will be empty. I am so glad that your theology is not taught in the Bible.
Suppose a man is drowning in the midst of the ocean. What does he need to be saved? He needs someone with greater power than himself, to pull him out of the water and set him on solid ground. Spiritually that is what Christ does. However, going back to the story, if you are that one that is drowning, and someone with a rescue boat comes along to save you; are you going to assess whether you will love your potential rescuer or will you accept his help whether or not you personally like him? Will you really refuse his help because he may be that next door neighbor who is always contentious with you, even if you are drowning? Do you have to love him in order to be saved by him, or for him to save you? Really? Is that the case?
God doesn't save a person based on their love for him, for he knows they cannot love him. They cannot love him until after they are saved. Then they love out of gratitude for the gift of salvation that they have freely received from Him.
But that is not true. Nowhere does the Bible say that. It simply says to "believe."
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
It does not say "Believe and obey."
It does not say: Do good works.
From Strong's
Iniquity: ανομια anomia an-om-ee'-ah
illegality, i.e. violation of law or (genitive case) wickedness:—iniquity, transgress(-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.
Thayer Definition:
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
Part of Speech: noun feminine
You are absolutely wrong in your definition. You are just making things up.
savedbymercy
New Member
dhk
I have a better question, suppose a man has drowned in the midst of the ocean. What does he need to be saved ?
I have a better question, suppose a man has drowned in the midst of the ocean. What does he need to be saved ?
You are not physically dead, SBM. Do you not realize that? You are alive physically and mentally. You have eyes and ears.
You also are not in an ocean drowning. You and DHK both get lost in manufactured beliefs and human wisdom.
A person hears about God and Jesus, they are taught, persuaded, and convinced of what they hear from the powerful message. Then they get Jesus’ teachings and do what they are told, they do what they are told even though they do not understand why they must do what they are doing, but you do it anyways, just as Abraham went where God said to go even though Abraham did not know where he was going. Do what God says, and God will give you His Spirit and reveal to you Himself.
According to you he doesn't need to be saved.
He was already saved before the foundation of the world. So you can just let him sink to the bottom of the ocean. Don't offer any help for God will rescue him in his own way, and in his time if he is of the elect. It is not your problem is it?
Did the Apostle Paul speak American English, Canadian English, or British English? Which one? Do you think he should have used the Oxford, or Webster's or an American Heritage Dictionary?
Did the Apostle Paul speak American English, Canadian English, or British English? Which one? Do you think he should have used the Oxford, or Webster's or an American Heritage Dictionary?
try Koine greek!
"For it is by Grace that you were saved, NOT of any works, lest one should boast!"
Please try to educate Moriah on this. The use of Strong's and Thayer's lexicons are good tools to use for this purpose.