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What Did jesus mean" Upon This Rock, I Will Build my Church?"

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The local congregation at Corinth was so describe by this metaphor (2 Cor. 11:2).

Answer this question:

How can any Church be a TRUE church if that church INCLUDES what Christ commanded His churches to EXCLUDE?

His churches are forbidden to INCLUDE unbaptized believers but YOUR CHURCH includes them.

His churches are forbidden to INCLUDE those who oppose sound doctrine and practice (2 Thes. 3:6) but YOUR CHURCH includes them.

His churches are forbidden to INCLUDE division and immoral Christians (1 Cor. 5; 11:17-19; 2 Thes. 3:6) but YOUR CHURCH includes them.

Again, Universal Church NOT a building/group/denomination, but its all the saved persons on earth right now....

So its the Body of Christ on earth right now, those who have been saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit!

IF we asked jesus where His church is right now, would say that you and I are at whever where are locally/physically right now!
 
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The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Again, Universal Church NOT a building/group/denomination, but its all the saved persons on earth right now....

You cannot INCLUDE the local congregation with the NON-local congregation and yet claim they are "ONE body" as one EXCLUDES what the other INCLUDES. To claim they both are "one body" is oxymoronic.

However, more importantly you are coming to the aide of our Roman Catholic advocates who want this subject line to change. Notice they have not been able to respond but now by changing the subject you are providing them a way out.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You cannot INCLUDE the local congregation with the NON-local congregation and yet claim they are "ONE body" as one EXCLUDES what the other INCLUDES. To claim they both are "one body" is oxymoronic.

However, more importantly you are coming to the aide of our Roman Catholic advocates who want this subject line to change. Notice they have not been able to respond but now by changing the subject you are providing them a way out.


Why would that be?

Aren't all christians part of the bride/body of Christ here on earth, his Church?
 

The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Why would that be?

Aren't all christians part of the bride/body of Christ here on earth, his Church?

No! All Christians in heaven and on earth are part of God's family by birth. All Christians on earth are part of His kingdom by translation from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light. But not all Christians on earth are part of his church except those water baptized into membership. The metaphor of "bride" or "virign" conveys FAITHFULNESS to Christ not salvation. The church is given the "keys OF THE KINGDOM" and that demands the church is not the kingdom but the administrative instutituion within the kingdom.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
No! All Christians in heaven and on earth are part of God's family by birth. All Christians on earth are part of His kingdom by translation from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light. But not all Christians on earth are part of his church except those water baptized into membership. The metaphor of "bride" or "virign" conveys FAITHFULNESS to Christ not salvation. The church is given the "keys OF THE KINGDOM" and that demands the church is not the kingdom but the administrative instutituion within the kingdom.

the Christians ARE in the body/bride of christ, that IS His Church!

Are you in an IBF church?

As many SBC and other baptists DO indeed see both Universal and local church in Bible!
 

The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
the Christians ARE in the body/bride of christ, that IS His Church!

No, not all Christians are in His church (2 Thes. 3:6; 1 Cor. 5:11-13).

Are you in an IBF church?

No! I am in an Independent Baptist Church with no organizational affiliations with any other church.

As many SBC and other baptists DO indeed see both Universal and local church in Bible!

No! They are wrong and misled.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
No, not all Christians are in His church (2 Thes. 3:6; 1 Cor. 5:11-13).

How can NT saints be NOT in the Church of christ though?


No! I am in an Independent Baptist Church with no organizational affiliations with any other church.

thats fine, just remember that you can seperate from other churches, but NOT other christians!

No! They are wrong and misled.

Would say that many of us here hold to that, its just a different view, not wrong/mislead!


Think that as long as we view this from the viewpoint of sincere believers who have just agreed to see it different way, thats still OK!

And do NOT mean Universal in the sense of the RCC see it, as theri Church itself being that!
 

Michael Wrenn

New Member
The New Testament is prophetic concerning the future of New Testament Congregations as well as apostasy.

1. Apostate Christianity will be in the majority or the "many" - Mt. 7:13; 21-23
2. New Testament Christianity will be in the minority - Mt. 7:14

This is consistent with the parable of the tares where at the end of the world the true seed are "hid" among the apostate majority - Mt. 13:43-44

This is consistent with the Lord's comment upon the parable of persistence in faithfulness - Luke 18:8

This is consistent with Apostolic warnings about the end times - 1 Tim. 4:1; 2 Thes. 2:3; 2 Tim. 3:1,12

1. Apostate Theocratic religion will be the persecuter and killer of N.T. Christianity - Jn. 16:1-4; Rev. 17:6; 18:4,20,24

2. New Testament Christianity will be persectued and killed

2 Tim. 3:1 1 ¶ This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come......
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.


New Testament Christianity will be the objects of reproach and ridicule and distortion (Mt. 5:10-12) in contrast to the "many" whose soteriology is composed of faith in Christ plus their good works performed in his name (Mt. 7:13,22).

Catholocism must be categorized as the "many" due to its size and due to its soteriological profession that matches perfectly the profession of those in Matthew 7:22.

Cathlocism must be categorized as the persecutor and killer of others due to its bloody history.

Catholicism must be categorized as the perverter and distorter of others as all who opposed her were called heretics and their teachings destroyed and perverted in order to bring them under the secular laws to kill.

Inspired prophetic History takes precedence over Catholic controlled uninspired history as the Catholic controlled uninspired history confirms the inspired prophetic History's description of Catholicism and its growth and persecution of others.

And Magisterial Protestantism, as well.
 

Michael Wrenn

New Member
It is faulty. Thus my question to WM, why should I believe Michael Wrenn's succession (given above) any more than the RCC's as they both point to the same Peter in Rome, of whom we have no evidence of being in Rome in the first place.

And my question to you is, when will you be honest by posting everything I say on the site about this issue instead of trying to discredit me by your selectivity?

I guess that's too much to expect from you.
 

The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
And my question to you is, when will you be honest by posting everything I say on the site about this issue instead of trying to discredit me by your selectivity?

I guess that's too much to expect from you.

Look at the post he responded to! He was defending your position even though he disagreed with it! HE MERELY POSTED VERBATIM what pertained to the argument!
 

Michael Wrenn

New Member
Look at the post he responded to! He was defending your position even though he disagreed with it! HE MERELY POSTED VERBATIM what pertained to the argument!

Okay, if I misunderstood, I humbly apologize. I've been under some stress and may not be seeing things as they are. But no excuses; if I'm wrong, I recant.
 
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