Biblicist,
You quote yourself! You come on and try to cover up the truth I write about with a bunch of irrelevant way off and out there talk. Then you quote yourself and add more talk that is irrelevant.
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What Did jesus mean" Upon This Rock, I Will Build my Church?"
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
Biblicist,
You quote yourself! You come on and try to cover up the truth I write about with a bunch of irrelevant way off and out there talk. Then you quote yourself and add more talk that is irrelevant.
true, the "small g" one did, satan, god of this earth system!
you have a gospel of law that save none!
Jesus said the gift of the Holy Spirit is granted by the father to them who have received yeshua by FAITH!
paul confirmed that, by stating we got Him by faith alone in Yeshua, NOT good works, being obedient to the Law etc!
I teach about a saving faith. You teach a dead faith, a dead faith you call a saving faith.
The Apostle James says the faith you teach is dead.
Even demons believe there is One God.
Faith without any action is dead. For God knows our hearts gives us His Spirit when He accepts us. What kind of heart do you have if you are not sorry for your sins? Jesus gives His Spirit to those he is pleased to give it, John 5:21. Do you think it pleases Jesus to give his Spirit to those who are not even sorry for the sins they do? Sins that keep them separated from God in the first place!
There is a new law; God calls it the “perfect law.” It is a NEW COVENANT.
What differences do you see in the New Covenant from the Old Covenant? Think about it! We always have to obey God; In the New Covenant, we still have to obey God, it is just that in the New Covenant, we are no longer saved by WORKS like circumcision, etc. God nailed those things to the cross, God did not nail stop sinning to the cross. God did not nail repenting to the cross.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Why would you call satan a god? Satan had nothing to do with the Catholic Church except fight against it.
jesus Himself called Satan the god of this present age...
Also, since RCC denies the central truth of the Gospel, would be satanic inspired doctrines wise...
NOT saying all catholics are evil, demonic etc, but that the doctrines of RCC definitly are!
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Thinkingstuff
Active Member
That is in effect what you are saying. Or you are saying God is incapable of revealing truth to those who love him and whom he loves.
God can and DOES reveals the truth to those whom He has chosen to save in jesus...
Just stating that catholics do get saved by his grace same way I did, BUT its due to in spite of the teachings in Rome, NOT because of it!
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People are saved in this life by obeying Jesus; to obey Jesus is to love him.
How is it obeying Jesus if you call your spiritual leader "Holy Father"? How is it obeying Jesus if you bow to "Holy Images" which are the Catholics statues, pictures, material possessions, and even the dead remains of their “Saints”? How is it obeying Jesus if you go through Mary?
How is it obeying Jesus if you call your spiritual leader "Holy Father"? How is it obeying Jesus if you bow to "Holy Images" which are the Catholics statues, pictures, material possessions, and even the dead remains of their “Saints”? How is it obeying Jesus if you go through Mary?
Fred's Wife
Member
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
God made the plan for salvation before He created the world. We had nothing to do with it. We did not convince God by words or deeds.
Works such as circumcision, external ceremonial washings, and gift offerings do not save us, nor are we saved for hospitable acts, etc. Obeying God by works of the law such as circumcision, and gift offerings are no longer required. It once was a requirement to be circumcised, to have ceremonial washings, to observe special days, to adhere to the dietary laws about eating and drinking. Those things were required just to worship God. Paul is explaining that those things are no longer required, those things are what people could boast for doing. Do you think a person can boast for saying they repented of sinning? It is not boastful to repent of sinning, for that is a HUMBLE act.
Paul had just got through thanking the Ephesians for showing the Saints love. The Ephesians were probably very hospitable and giving to the Apostles who visited them. When we are saved, we are given the Holy Spirit. Jesus saves us for having a believing heart that is sorry for sins, we then as saved people continue in God’s goodness by doing good works, good works like the Ephesians did, as they probably welcomed the Apostles into their homes, fed them, washed their feet, gave them money for their mission.
The law of circumcision separated the Jew from the Gentile but the Scriptures declare over and over again that circumcision justified/saved no one, not even the Jew (Rom. 4:9-12) and neither did any other aspect of law regardless if it was written on stone or on conscience (Gal. 3:10-12). So prior to the cross the law did not make anyone SPIRITUAL children of God not even the Jews.
The Jews were Spiritual children of God! The people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Romans 9:4.
Deuteronomy 14:1 [ Clean and Unclean Food ] You are the children of the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.
Jeremiah 44:7 “Now this is what the LORD God Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Why bring such great disaster on yourselves by cutting off from Judah the men and women, the children and infants, and so leave yourselves without a remnant?
John 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
Deuteronomy 4:36 From heaven he made you hear his voice to discipline you. On earth he showed you his great fire, and you heard his words from out of the fire. 37 Because he loved your forefathers and chose their descendants after them, he brought you out of Egypt by his Presence and his great strength,38 to drive out before you nations greater and stronger than you and to bring you into their land to give it to you for your inheritance, as it is today.
Deuteronomy 4:8 And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?
Psalm 147:19 He has revealed his word to Jacob, his laws and decrees to Israel.
Psalm 147:20 He has done this for no other nation; they do not know his laws. Praise the LORD.
Did you read those scriptures?
I can give you many more scriptures that tell us who were the children of God and why. The Gentiles were SEPARATE from Christ, EXCLUDED from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope AND WITHOUT GOD in the world, see Ephesians 2:12.
The Jews had the works of the law. Even though a Jew had faith, they STILL had to do what God said to do, and that was to be circumcised. Remember Moses, he was a man of God, yet God was going to kill Moses for not obeying and being circumcised. Jews would be cut off for not being circumcised.
You quote Galatians 3:10-12 as if it supports what you say. JUST READ THE VERY NEXT SCRIPTURE! 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
DID YOU NOT READ THAT AND UNDERSTAND? THROUGH CHRIST BECOMING A CURSE WHEN HE HUNG ON A TREE IS WHEN THE GENTILE COULD BE INCLUDED IN THE PROMISES! NOT BEFORE, AS YOU KEEP FALSELY TEACHING.
Do you believe Nicodemus was a Jew? Jesus told him that he needed to be SPIRITUALLY born again - Jn. 3:3-5! Jesus used the plural pronoun "ye" demanding that all Jews needed to be SPIRITUALLY born again. If circumcision made the Jews all covenant members, adopted SPIRITUAL sons and heirs of the Abrahamic Promises then why did Jesus demand that full grown Jewish scholars like Nicodemus needed to be SPIRITUALLY born again???
The truth is that NATURAL birth did not obtain ANY OF THOSE THINGS for the Jew but simply placed them in a BETTER POSITION to be exposed to the truth in order to obtain them.
Natural born circumcised Jews were no more the SPIRITUAL children of God than natural born uncircumcised gentiles and this is the very point Paul makes in Romans 4:9-12 speaking of PRE-cross Abraham and Galatains 6:15
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Don't respond that this applies only to Post-cross Christians as Galatians 3:17 explicitly states that Abraham a PRE-cross and PRE-Jew and PRE-Mosaic person was "in Christ" and justified prior to circumcision:
Gal. 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
You have JERKED it out of context. He goes right on and denies that all Israel is of Israel whereas your very argument demands the opposite. He is denying that PHYSICAL BIRTH and CIRCUMCISION "according to the flesh" makes a Jew a true SPIRITUAL child of God:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Paul is repudiating your interpretation that ALL NATURAL BORN CIRCUMICED Jews are SPIRITUAL children of God. He denies that. All such are merely "children of the flesh" and such "ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD."
They are "children" of God AFTER "the flesh" but they are not "children" of God AFTER THE SPIRIT and that is precisely why NICODEMUS needed to be SPIRITUALLLY BORN AGAIN - Jn. 3:3-5.
Again, they are "children of the Lord your God" AFTER THE FLESH but not AFTER THE SPIRIT as these very same people in the very same book of Deuteronomy are described thus:
Deut. 9:4 Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.
5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.6 Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.
7 ¶ Remember, and forget not, how thou provokedst the LORD thy God to wrath in the wilderness: from the day that thou didst depart out of the land of Egypt, until ye came unto this place, ye have been rebellious against the LORD.
They were not God's children AFTER THE SPIRIT but only after the flesh and the only reason He did not destroy them was because of his covenant promise with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and those children AFTER THE SPIRIT which would be saved from among Israel like NICODEMUS who were not merely "born of the flesh" but "born of the Spirit" BEFORE the cross, BEFORE Pentecost by faith in the PRE-cross gospel - Jn. 3:16; Acts 10:43.
Quoting scripture YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND or INTERPRET CORRECTLY does you no good! You can't distinguish between children of God born after the flesh versus children of God born after the Spirit! Paul makes that distinction and so does Christ:
Speaking of natural born circumcised Jews Paul says:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Speaking of natural born circumcised Jews PRIOR TO THE CROSS Jesus said:
"Marvel not that I said unto YOU, Ye must be born again" - Jn. 3:7
You are in complete ignorance here and willingly so! God saved Gentiles BEFORE he saved any Jews in the Old Testament and then saved many Gentiles while saving Jews in the Old Testament, WHILE MOST JEWS DIED AND WENT TO HELL before the cross because they were NEVER BORN AGAIN JEWS but only children of God "ACCORDING TO THE FLESH."
Ephesians 2:12 is POST-Great Commission context! Prior to the giving of the Great Commission to go into "all nations" God PRIMARILY (but not totally) saved people from among the Jews (not all Jews) while saving SOME from among Gentiles (Adam, Eve, Abel, Seth, Noah, Shem, Abraham, Rahab, Ruth, Ninevites, etc.). However, after the Great Commission to "all nations" it is now REVERSED. God saves PRIMARILY (but not totally) among the "nations" (Gentiles) while saving SOME from among the Jews (3,000 on Pentecost, 5000 in Acts 5; Paul, etc.).
There is no salvation OUTSIDE of Christ before the cross (Jn. 14:6) for ANYONE as Abraham was saved "IN CHRIST" (Gal. 3:17). Not all Jews are the children of God ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT (Rom. 9:5-6).
The Jews had the works of the law. Even though a Jew had faith, they STILL had to do what God said to do, and that was to be circumcised. Remember Moses, he was a man of God, yet God was going to kill Moses for not obeying and being circumcised. Jews would be cut off for not being circumcised.
How could he redeem "us" from the "curse of the law" if as you say we were not under that law as described in verse 10????
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
You deny that we ("us") were under "the works of the Law" as you claim that designation does not apply to Gentiles but only to Jews - Right???? However, the curse "is EVERY ONE that continueth not in ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK" while you deny that WE are under "ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK."
You simply do not understand that "ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK" are merely COMPREHENSIVE in nature of the very same righteous standard that is SUMMARIZED found written upon the conscience of the gentile - SAME LAW - SAME STANDARD - SAME RIGHTEOUSNESS just one is more comprehensive than the other. Circumcision may not be "a" work of the law that the Gentile is held accountable for due to ignorance but the Gentile is held accountable for the MEANING of circumcision - which is merely a symbol of the NEW BIRTH - and Abel, Noah, Seth, Abraham, Rahab were all BORN AGAIN Gentiles just as the PRE-Cross Jew circumcised Nicodemus needed to be "born again" or he could not "see" or "enter" the kingdom of God. HENCE CIRCUMCISION WAS MEANINGLESS apart from new birth as circumcision made Nicodemus a child of God ACCORDING TO THE FLESH but not ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT - proving that Rom. 9:5-6 was applicable prior to the cross as much as after the cross.
You are the false teacher and the proof is that you are INCAPABLE of understanding the scriptures and you jerk everything out of context.
Jesus was speaking! Receiving the Holy Spirit did not happen personally to all believers until the One who baptizes us with the Holy Spirit came!
Mark 1:8 I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
I gave you scriptures explaining that the Jews were God’s children. Why do you not accept that?
God walked among the Israelites, not among the Gentiles.
Leviticus 26:12I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be my people.
Exodus 6:7 I will take you as my own people, and I will be your God. Then you will know that I am the LORD your God, who brought you out from under the yoke of the Egyptians.
Exodus 29:45 hen I will dwell among the Israelites and be their God.
Deuteronomy 23:14 For the LORD your God moves about in your camp to protect you and to deliver your enemies to you. Your camp must be holy, so that he will not see among you anything indecent and turn away from you.
2 Samuel 7:7 Wherever I have moved with all the Israelites, did I ever say to any of their rulers whom I commanded to shepherd my people Israel, "Why have you not built me a house of cedar?"'
What do you not get about the Israelites, the Jews, were God's people.
It was the law to be circumcised! God was going to kill Moses for not circumcising his son.
However, ABRAHAM STILL HAD TO BE CIRCUMCISED. GENTILES WERE NOT CIRCUMCISED. ABRAHAM IS THE FOREFATHER TO THE JEWS. THE JEWS WERE CHOSEN BECAUSE OF WHO THEIR FOREFATHERS WERE.
The promise of something that was going to happen; however, you preach that it was a promise already fulfilled and active! If the promise already existed in Abraham’s day, then why did Abraham have to be circumcised in the flesh? If the promise was already given in the Old Testament, then WHY DOES THE WORD OF GOD SAY THOSE PEOPLE DID NOT RECEIVE THE THINGS PROMISED!
Gentiles were excluded and without God. What do you not get about that?
The blood of Jesus did not save people until Jesus shed his blood on the cross.
Abraham still had to wait to see Jesus’ day. All the righteous in the Old Testament, they still knew that they were not serving themselves, but THOSE IN THE TIME OF THE NEW TESTAMENT.
Matthew 13:17 For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
Hebrews 11:13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth.
I did not jerk anything out of context. You deny the scriptures.
The people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Romans 9:4.Go read again what I just wrote above.
Abraham still had to be circumcised. All those from Abraham on still had to be circumcised. Do you still not understand? They who were RIGHTEOUS STILL HAD TO BE CIRCUMCISED.
Read about Job. Job would sacrifice burnt offering for each of his children, incase they sinned and cursed God in their hearts!
Job 1:5 When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would send and have them purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, "Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." This was Job's regular custom.
Did you read that? If a Christian sins in their heart, they confess to God, and Jesus intercedes for them, this was not possible in the Old Testament!
You speak nonsense. The Jews were the children of God. It was them and not other nations and people. You speak of people being saved before the Jews, but the Jews were saved because of whom their fore fathers were! Yet you act if their forefathers were not related to them. You act as if all nations of people were God’s people.
Deuteronomy 7:8 But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath he swore to your forefathers that he brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 4:37 Because he loved your forefathers and chose their descendants after them, he brought you out of Egypt by his Presence and his great strength,
The Gentiles were not God’s people in the Old Testament. No matter how many times you repeat that untruth. You try to justify your false teachings by saying "primarily," but you cannot get out of your false teachings by throwing in the word 'primarily.'
Read what I said above, for the promise was not fulfilled UNTIL JESUS CAME in the flesh.
The Jews had the works of the law. Even though a Jew had faith, they STILL had to do what God said to do, and that was to be circumcised. Remember Moses, he was a man of God, yet God was going to kill Moses for not obeying and circumcising his son. Jews would be cut off for not being circumcised.
Paul FIRST talks about ALL WHO RELY ON THE LAW. THEN Paul tells us that Gentiles received what was promised THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. Through Jesus’ shed blood on the cross. The Gentiles were included through the gospel! NOT BEFORE, AS YOU KEEP TEACHING.
Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
Ephesians 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
DID YOU READ THAT? THROUGH THE GOSPEL, THE GENTILES ARE HEIRS TOGETHER WITH ISRAEL, NOT BEFORE. SO STOP GOING AGAINST THE TRUTH AND PREACHING UNTRUTHS.
Circumcision was not meaningless in the Old Covenant! God was going to kill Moses when Moses did not circumcise his son. The Gentiles were NOT included with Israel, true Israel, not until the GOSPEL, not until Jesus’ SHED BLOOD.
How you can say circumcision is meaningless in the Old Testament is proof of your falseness.
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So what! Jesus told the Jews this BEFORE the cross! Jesus told the Jews this BEFORE Pentecost! Jesus rebuked Nicodemus for not understanding and knowing this BUT according to YOU and your silly interpretation Jesus had no right to rebuke Nicodemus for not understanding and knowing about the new birth because accordng to YOU they could not have possibly known or understood about it because it did not happen before Pentecost. That is how stupid your interpetation is! You make Christ to be a Moron because he rebukes Nicodemus for something YOU claim could not be understood or could not occur prior to Pentecost.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
This is not only a rebuke to YOU but a rebuke to all on this forum who denies the new birth was necessary and occuring previous to Pentecost.
Circumcison and law keeping did not make them SPIRITUAL born children of God and this is absolute proof that you will refuse because your spiritually blinded just like Nicodemus (except Nicodemus was BORN AGAIN previous to Pentecost and his fruits prove it).
If you cannot grasp this one clear thing, there is absolutely no sense in discussing anything else with you.
You say “So what!” to the fact that Jesus was speaking!
JESUS REBUKED NICODEMUS FOR NOT UNDERSTANDING AND KNOWING ABOUT THE SCRIPTURES THAT WERE TO BE FULFILLED.
Do you not understand that? Stop teaching falseness!