James 2:12-26

[The Biblicist]

There are those on this forum who cannot deal with Romans 3:25-5:2 and Paul's systematic definition and defense of justification by faith without works. So they play the RJP (RUN from the context of Romans, JUMP to another context in James and then PIT James against Romans).

So in this thread we take up James and see if the continue to play the RJP game from this context.

1. All the illustrations given in James 2:14-20 are those of men and angels who are TOTALLY WITHOUT ANY GOOD WORKS WHATSOEVER!

There are no illustrations given where evil works simply out number good works but all the illustrations are "WITHOUT" good works totally and completely.

2. All the illustrations given in James 2:14-26 are HORIZONTAL illustrations BEFORE MEN whereas Romans 4:1 clearly states that Paul is dealing with Abraham "before God."

16 And one of you say unto them....18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

The key words here are "SHEW THEE MY FAITH BY MY WORKS" - James is speaking of EVIDENTIAL JUSTIFICATION BY WORKS.

Rahab showed the two spys and then shewed all Israel by hanging the red cord for all to see.

Abraham showed Isaac and his servant

3. The final illustration in Verse 26 once again the illustration is a faith WITHOUT ANY GOOD WORKS whatsoever - Again EVIDENTIAL JUSTIFICATION BY WORKS is the subject.

 

[Moriah]

There are those on this forum who cannot deal with Romans 3:25-5:2

Biblicist,

How about if you do not start your OP off with false accusations against others here, unless, of course, you are talking about yourself not being able to deal with Romans 3:25-5:2.

 

[Moriah]

1. All the illustrations given in James 2:14-20 are those of men and angels who are TOTALLY WITHOUT ANY GOOD WORKS WHATSOEVER!

Do not call the demons “angels.”

1. All the illustrations given in James 2:14-20 are those of men and angels who are TOTALLY WITHOUT ANY GOOD WORKS WHATSOEVER!

You say without any good works whatsoever and you claim that is how all are supposed to be before being saved, that it is the saving kind of faith. However, James says, “What good is it, my brother, if a man claims to have faith but has no deed? Can such faith save him?”

Now here comes DHK’s, Biblicists, and Saturneptune’s zinger of a teaching, THEY SAY YES SUCH FAITH SAVES MAN, AND THAT IT IS THE ONLY KIND OF FAITH THAT SAVES. They also say faith with deeds is a false teaching, heretical, accursed, and worthy of condemnation.

There are no illustrations given where evil works simply out number good works but all the illustrations are "WITHOUT" good works totally and completely.

I know, Biblicist, and it is the without good action that YOU say SAVES.

2. All the illustrations given in James 2:14-26 are HORIZONTAL illustrations BEFORE MEN whereas Romans 4:1 clearly states that Paul is dealing with Abraham "before God."
16 And one of you say unto them....18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

The key words here are "SHEW THEE MY FAITH BY MY WORKS" - James is speaking of EVIDENTIAL JUSTIFICATION BY WORKS.

Rahab showed the two spys and then shewed all Israel by hanging the red cord for all to see.

Abraham showed Isaac and his servant

3. The final illustration in Verse 26 once again the illustration is a faith WITHOUT ANY GOOD WORKS whatsoever - Again EVIDENTIAL JUSTIFICATION BY WORKS is the subject.

Even if James speaks of “before men” and not of “before God,” it still is DEAD FAITH, it is dead faith before God and before men, and it is NOT the SAVING kind of faith that you teach.

 

[The Biblicist]

Q

Do not call the demons “angels.”

Demons are angels - evil angels. They do not belong to the class of mankind. Nor do they belong to the Trinity. They were created as angels by nature and they are still angels by nature although EVIL or FALLEN angels. The Bible says they were created angels.

You say without any good works whatsoever and you claim that is how all are supposed to be before being saved, that it is the saving kind of faith. However, James says, “What good is it, my brother, if a man claims to have faith but has no deed? Can such faith save him?”

He defines what kind of faith he is speaking of! One that is not EVIDENCED by good works. James is talking about EVIDENTIAL justification by works rather than justification by works - his words are "I will SHEW YOU MY FAITH BY MY WORKS"!

He is talking about "one of you" - a person who has professed to be regenerated (James 1:18) and justified by faith and having been baptized into the membership of the church (James 2:1-8).

Good works ALWAYS accompany such a person as such a person is not only justified by faith without works but is regenerated "unto good works" (Eph. 2:10) and therefore there is no such thing as a justified person who is not also a regenerated person with "good works" evidencing it.

Deal with the context fairly and objectively Moriah instead of twisting it to fit your own preconceived errors.

 

[Moriah]

Demons are angels - evil angels. They do not belong to the class of mankind. Nor do they belong to the Trinity. They were created as angels by nature and they are still angels by nature although EVIL or FALLEN angels. The Bible says they were created angels.

I know what angels are and I know what demons are, so do not try to be confusing by calling angels demons.

He defines what kind of faith he is speaking of! One that is not EVIDENCED by good works. James is talking about EVIDENTIAL justification by works rather than justification by works - his words are "I will SHEW YOU MY FAITH BY MY WORKS"!

He is talking about "one of you" - a person who has professed to be regenerated (James 1:18) and justified by faith and having been baptized into the membership of the church (James 2:1-8).

Good works ALWAYS accompany such a person as such a person is not only justified by faith without works but is regenerated "unto good works" (Eph. 2:10) and therefore there is no such thing as a justified person who is not also a regenerated person with "good works" evidencing it.

Deal with the context fairly and objectively Moriah instead of twisting it to fit your own preconceived errors.

You say people are saved without any good works whatsoever, and you claim that is how all are supposed to be before being saved, that it is the saving kind of faith. However, James says, “What good is it, my brother, if a man claims to have faith but has no deed? Can such faith save him?”
NO Biblicist, such a faith does NOT save a man. It is not the saving kind of faith that you teach.

 

[The Biblicist]

I know what angels are and I know what demons are, so do not try to be confusing by calling angels demons.

Do you believe that Satan was created an angel? When was he RECREATED to be something else??? Do you believe demons were created as angels? When were they RECREATED to be something else? Do you believe Adam was created as a Man? Just because he fell into sin did that RECREATE him to be something other than a man by nature? Since Lucifer and the angels that followed him fell into sin did that change their nature from angel to something other than angel? Fallen angels are called "demons" just like fallen men are called "sinners." You need to read your Bible a little bit better.

You say people are saved without any good works whatsoever,

I have NEVER said any such thing! What I said is that they are JUSTIFIED by faith without works not "SAVED" by faith without works. There is a big difference. Salvation takes in much more than justification but regeneration, sanctification and glorification and good works are included as the product of regeneration and contained in progressive sanctification.

You obviously do not understand what I teach or what James is teaching.

 

[Moriah]

I have NEVER said any such thing! What I said is that they are JUSTIFIED by faith without works not "SAVED" by faith without works.

There is a big difference. Salvation takes in much more than justification but regeneration, sanctification and glorification and good works are included as the product of regeneration and contained in progressive sanctification.

You obviously do not understand what I teach or what James is teaching.

Wow. Anyone who can see can see the complete breakdown of Biblist and his teachings.

 

[The Biblicist]

Wow. Anyone who can see can see the complete breakdown of Biblist and his teachings.

Readers, here is how Moriah responds when he has been completely repudiated with no where to turn but to ridicule. We completely exposed his false understanding of demons. We completely exposed his false understanding of my position on justification with his confusion of "salvation" with "justification and so he turns to ridicule because he has no other refuge.

Either you are trying to be funny or you are intentionally trying to distort what I said. I have not changed ONE IOTA from what I have been consistently teaching on this forum.

I guarantee you no one else will side with you in this estimation IF they are honest people.

 

[Yeshua1]

I know what angels are and I know what demons are, so do not try to be confusing by calling angels demons.

You say people are saved without any good works whatsoever, and you claim that is how all are supposed to be before being saved, that it is the saving kind of faith. However, James says, “What good is it, my brother, if a man claims to have faith but has no deed? Can such faith save him?”
NO Biblicist, such a faith does NOT save a man. It is not the saving kind of faith that you teach.

What is the very nature of one being justified before god though? My good works, or the death of Christ?

we are saved by grace of god ALONE, received thru/by/in faith ALONE, but afterwards, that saved person will indeed exhibit fruits that reflect being now a Christian, its just that all of us will have different maturity and growth spurts!

 

[Yeshua1]

Do not call the demons “angels.”

You say without any good works whatsoever and you claim that is how all are supposed to be before being saved, that it is the saving kind of faith. However, James says, “What good is it, my brother, if a man claims to have faith but has no deed? Can such faith save him?”

Now here comes DHK’s, Biblicists, and Saturneptune’s zinger of a teaching, THEY SAY YES SUCH FAITH SAVES MAN, AND THAT IT IS THE ONLY KIND OF FAITH THAT SAVES. They also say faith with deeds is a false teaching, heretical, accursed, and worthy of condemnation.




I know, Biblicist, and it is the without good action that YOU say SAVES.


Even if James speaks of “before men” and not of “before God,” it still is DEAD FAITH, it is dead faith before God and before men, and it is NOT the SAVING kind of faith that you teach.

demons, even sata himself, were ALL created by God as angels!

 

[The Biblicist]

demons, even sata himself, were ALL created by God as angels!

When his errors are exposed, he wisely keeps his mouth shut! That is a good sign!