Should catholics saved By Grace Of God Forsake the RCC, and depart now?

[Michael Wrenn]

I was hoping Walter would go with a Convergence church if he left the Baptists.

The man who ordained me was Roman Catholic at one time and spent several years in an RC seminary. He could tell you things you wouldn't believe. Anyway, he left and joined the Old Catholics. I won't say more about that.

In my searches years ago, I even briefly considered the RCC. In the end, there was just too much unscriptural stuff that I could not swallow. And, yes, I studied the RCC extensively, as I have most other denominations.

However, I will not say what some here have said about the RCC. They do affirm the Apostles and Nicene Creeds which are orthodox statements of the faith.

 

[The Biblicist]

I was hoping Walter would go with a Convergence church if he left the Baptists.

The man who ordained me was Roman Catholic at one time and spent several years in an RC seminary. He could tell you things you wouldn't believe. Anyway, he left and joined the Old Catholics. I won't say more about that.

In my searches years ago, I even briefly considered the RCC. In the end, there was just too much unscriptural stuff that I could not swallow. And, yes, I studied the RCC extensively, as I have most other denominations.

However, I will not say what some here have said about the RCC. They do affirm the Apostles and Nicene Creeds which are orthodox statements of the faith.

The Convergence cult is no better than the RCC cult. Both equally mishandle the scriptures in order to sustain their existence.

 

[Walter]

I was hoping Walter would go with a Convergence church if he left the Baptists.

The man who ordained me was Roman Catholic at one time and spent several years in an RC seminary. He could tell you things you wouldn't believe. Anyway, he left and joined the Old Catholics. I won't say more about that.

In my searches years ago, I even briefly considered the RCC. In the end, there was just too much unscriptural stuff that I could not swallow. And, yes, I studied the RCC extensively, as I have most other denominations.

However, I will not say what some here have said about the RCC. They do affirm the Apostles and Nicene Creeds which are orthodox statements of the faith.

I have no doubt you did an exhaustive study.

Bishop, I'm very impressed with the local convergence church. Good liturgy and excellent preaching! But, my wife and I are relocating to an area that has none so it really isn't an option. I'm by no means finished with my studies. We will see where the Lord takes me. I am attending RCIA -currently on break- and I don't believe I'm rushing into anything. So far I have found reasonable answers to all the objections to the CC I held as a Baptist.

 

[The Biblicist]

I have no doubt you did an exhaustive study.

I have found reasonable answers

Reasonable answers can be false answers as human REASON is not final in authority but rather inspired REVELATION is final authority for faith and practice.

Inspired revelation is many times ABOVE human reason and requires FAITH rather than human REASON to accept.

I do not believe any advocate of Catholicism or Convergence churches deal with the scriptuers OBJECTIVELY or HONESTLY but rather approach it with the attempt to MAKE them fit what you already are leaning toward. I say this because it is one thing to provide a RESPONSE to scriptures that teach contrary to your beliefs but it is quite another thing to seek the truth of those texts by objective exegesis.

For example, TS provided an RESPONSE to Romans 4:11 but his RESPONSE did not and cannot stand up to the scrutiny of objective exegesis of that text. He could not deal directly with the immediate context and so he widened the context to generalities in order to RESPOND to a specific contextual teaching by Paul.

The defense of RCC is based upon such kind of eisgetical based RESPONSES that are REASONABLE but not Biblical.

 

[DHK]

I have no doubt you did an exhaustive study.

Bishop, I'm very impressed with the local convergence church. Good liturgy and excellent preaching! But, my wife and I are relocating to an area that has none so it really isn't an option. I'm by no means finished with my studies. We will see where the Lord takes me. I am attending RCIA -currently on break- and I don't believe I'm rushing into anything. So far I have found reasonable answers to all the objections to the CC I held as a Baptist.

If you found a wise and knowledgeable pastor I am sure he could answer your objections. Try a couple of IFB churches (hoping that you don't get in with the "Jack Hyles" crowd). We have people that drive 180 miles just to hear the preaching of the Word.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

The Convergence cult is no better than the RCC cult. Both equally mishandle the scriptures in order to sustain their existence.

You are an idiot and a liar.

If I get an infraction, so be it. If I could think of an even more appropriate word for you, I'd use that. You like to use the word "cult", don't you? Well, I think you are a cult of one. I'm surprised you can even find one church that lives up to your standards.

You think you defend the scriptures and the Gospel. If Jesus were walking the Earth today, I don't think He would want you anywhere near Him. He probably couldn't meet your standards, either.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I have no doubt you did an exhaustive study.

Bishop, I'm very impressed with the local convergence church. Good liturgy and excellent preaching! But, my wife and I are relocating to an area that has none so it really isn't an option. I'm by no means finished with my studies. We will see where the Lord takes me. I am attending RCIA -currently on break- and I don't believe I'm rushing into anything. So far I have found reasonable answers to all the objections to the CC I held as a Baptist.

Best wishes to you. I do understand your predicament.

As strong and as many disagreements as I have with the RCC, I think I'd rather see you there than sitting next to a "Biblicist"-type in a pew.

 

[Walter]

If you found a wise and knowledgeable pastor I am sure he could answer your objections. Try a couple of IFB churches (hoping that you don't get in with the "Jack Hyles" crowd). We have people that drive 180 miles just to hear the preaching of the Word.

Yes, I would avoid the 'Hyles crowd'. Just a comment there. I personally think the problem with the Hyles organization is that Dr. Hyles had a bad habit of sweeping things under the carpet in order to "protect the ministry". He did that with his son. There is no way Hyles' son would have become a Pastor if all the filth was exposed like it should have been. A church ended up duped by the Hyles name and as a result the church was ruined by his own son. Hyles was also a very proud man who liked to create his own theology known as Hylesology. The worst of these 'new truths' was the idea of 'Easy Believism' which leaves out repentance or a change of life.

 

[DHK]

Yes, I would avoid the 'Hyles crowd'. Just a comment there. I personally think the problem with the Hyles organization is that Dr. Hyles had a bad habit of sweeping things under the carpet in order to "protect the ministry". He did that with his son. There is no way Hyles' son would have become a Pastor if all the filth was exposed like it should have been. A church ended up duped by the Hyles name and as a result the church was ruined by his own son. Hyles was also a very proud man who liked to create his own theology known as Hylesology. The worst of these 'new truths' was the idea of 'Easy Believism' which leaves out repentance or a change of life.

Those are some good observations, particularly the "easy believism." Many of them are also KJVO, which can cause some problems.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I apologize to Biblicist for calling him an idiot; I should not have said that. I should have just said that he was making idiotic statements. Anyone can make those and not be an idiot. I've done that myself.

 

[BillySunday1935]

As a Baptist converting to the Catholic Church, now when I walk into a protestant / evangelical church there's the very numbing feeling that it's NOT the Holy place I once felt it was. There's usually not an altar , there's usually just a cross ( sometimes not a cross ) hanging on the wall then the power point covers it, never a crucifix to be seen, the sanctuary is NEVER quiet or reverent ( it seems like a social hall at times ) nobody is sitting there in deep prayer on their knees before the service, there's NO tabernacle or Eucharist, there's no very sacred prayers or hymns during the service, when the music starts it's just like a concert with the FOCUS seeming to be on the musicians NOT on Jesus.....most ALL protestant / evangelical converts to the Catholic Church feel this way.............now, at the Catholic Church, I can attend Mass 7 days a week ( not just on a Wednesday & Sunday.... ) when you walk in you know & feel in the depths of your soul & the pit of your stomach that its a VERY Holy Place, it's VERY quiet , almost a stillness with everyone in deep prayer on their knees facing the altar & Tabernacle before the Mass, there's the Crucifix, and theres is NEVER a rock concert going on , we are singing reverent hymns & prayers etc.....it's meant to be a VERY reverent place.....& it ALWAYS is.............just a thought and my experience. I am passing no judgements, just sharing with you what I have observed. I love attending the Catholic Church, and have never been closer to the Lord Jesus.
Despite the talk on this board about how 'unbiblical' the Catholic Church is, I have found by way of studying the word of God and the Catechism that it is the most biblical Church on earth.

I want to add that just within the last day my wife informed me that since I have left the Baptist church for the Catholic Church she has seen a wonderful change in my life. She has noticed the amount of time I spend reading God's word and in prayer has increased significantly. She has shared with several of our friends the amount of peace and joy that I now am experiencing and she told me she wants to find that too. She made a decision for Christ years ago but wants a deeper relationship with Him. She has decided to start attending the Catholic Church along with me. She won't be alone, just about all the people in my large RCIA class are former Protestants. I'm not the only former Baptist. All are surprised by just how Christ-Centered the Catholic Church actually is.

That's an excellent testimony!

Billy

 

[BillySunday1935]

snip...

Again, not to be disrespectful, but everything you posted above about why you like the Catholic church over Baptists is centered on things, not Christ. You mentioned crucifixes, altars, and other things. I am not going to condemn you for your choice. But I do urge an in depth study. I also will not derail this thread with a discussion on things, but please look into it with an open mind tempered by the scriptures.

Not trying to speak for him/her, but most of what I know about the mass indicates it to be very Christocentric - much more so than most of the Baptist churches in my area. And believe me... that's a majority here in South Alabama.

 

[targus]

If you found a wise and knowledgeable pastor I am sure he could answer your objections. Try a couple of IFB churches (hoping that you don't get in with the "Jack Hyles" crowd). We have people that drive 180 miles just to hear the preaching of the Word.

180 miles?

If the church is the "local" called out assembly - why are these people driving so far - and probably passing a bunch of baptist churches on the way?

Shouldn't they be worshiping with their local assembly instead of spending the day driving?

 

[The Biblicist]

That's an excellent testimony!

Billy

Obviously you do not know the difference between faith and feeling either and that proper feelings are determined by faith which is based upon Biblical facts not by false forms of worship.

 

[WestminsterMan]

Obviously you do not know the difference between faith and feeling either and that proper feelings are determined by faith which is based upon Biblical facts not by false forms of worship.

I do and they aren't mutually exclusive. You're such a hoot...

WM

 

[The Biblicist]

I do and they aren't mutually exclusive. You're such a hoot...

WM

Apparently you don't read too well either. I never said they had to be completely separated. What I said was that feelings must directed by faith which has for its basis Biblical truth or else you have nothing but empty emotionalism and feelings that are worthless.

Catholic worship is EMPTY of Biblical truth and therefore whatever FEELINGS one gets from ceremony and lavious surroundings is worthless.

 

[DHK]

180 miles?

If the church is the "local" called out assembly - why are these people driving so far - and probably passing a bunch of baptist churches on the way?

Shouldn't they be worshiping with their local assembly instead of spending the day driving?

[/quote]
You are from Michigan, and obviously don't know much about the western and northern parts of Canada.
Shouldn't they be worshiping with their local assembly?
Yes, and they are.

Why are they driving so far--and probably passing a bunch of baptist churches on the way?
Because they aren't passing a bunch of baptist churches on the way. There are none between them and here. Unlike some of your cities and states, we don't have Baptist churches on every corner. If you look on a map, I will put things into perspective for you. You live in Michigan; I live in Alberta. When I went to Bible College, in all of the province of Alberta there were only four Fundamental Baptist Churches, or churches that I could recommend. From Edmonton, Alberta to Winnipeg, Manitoba, there were none. That is a distance of over 800 miles that one could drive and not find one solitary Baptist church. Our provinces are much larger than your states. Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba are all prairie provinces--the great wheat fields of the nation. It is nothing but flat land and small towns. The growth of Baptist churches has been very slow.

Perhaps that gives you some idea of the mission field that lies to your north.

 

[saturneptune]

180 miles?

If the church is the "local" called out assembly - why are these people driving so far - and probably passing a bunch of baptist churches on the way?

Shouldn't they be worshiping with their local assembly instead of spending the day driving?

To better understand the situation, I am sure they offer a Geography 101 class at your local community college.

 

[WestminsterMan]

Apparently you don't read too well either. I never said they had to be completely separated. What I said was that feelings must directed by faith which has for its basis Biblical truth or else you have nothing but empty emotionalism and feelings that are worthless.

Catholic worship is EMPTY of Biblical truth and therefore whatever FEELINGS one gets from ceremony and lavious surroundings is worthless.

Since you know not the mind of God, your pontifications regarding Catholic worship are nothing more than absolute drivel and an embarrassment! Of course, that's never stopped you before...

WM

 

[The Biblicist]

Since you know not the mind of God, your pontifications regarding Catholic worship are nothing more than absolute drivel and an embarrassment! Of course, that's never stopped you before...

WM

I give my interpretation just as you do but I can back them up with Scripture and that is the difference between us! "Pontifications" is a derogatory remark that mocks the head of the Catholic church not Baptists.