We have to obey Jesus!

[Moriah]

This is a ridiculous statement. The only one that was "unnaturally born" was Christ himself, who was born of a virgin, conceived of the Holy Spirit. Paul was a human conceived of human parents, born into this world like any other man. What do you mean he was unnaturally born?

1 Corinthians 15:8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

I have just shown you that Paul was unnaturally born into the Christian faith as an Apostle, because he did not believe in Jesus until after Jesus appeared to him on the road to Damascus.

NOW, reply to the fact that Paul did things before he was given the Holy Spirit! Acknowledge the Word of God!
Paul obeyed he fasted, and prayed!

 

[The Biblicist]

1 Corinthians 15:8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

I have just shown you that Paul was unnaturally born into the Christian faith as an Apostle, because he did not believe in Jesus until after Jesus appeared to him on the road to Damascus.

NOW, reply to the fact that Paul did things before he was given the Holy Spirit! Acknowledge the Word of God!
Paul obeyed he fasted, and prayed!

The abnormality was an issue of "TIME" not MANNER! He was born out of due "TIME."

 

[Moriah]

Nothing I read by Steaver seems out of order.

He explained nothing. He went against my explanation that I have from the scriptures, yet he explained nothing.

If the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are a child of God, then good works will follow. If we simply do good works out of duty, because we know they are required, then they are like filthy rags before God. God does not want those kind of works.

That is illogic. For one thing, that is not what the filthy rags scripture is about, it is about those who HAVE a relationship with God, but they keep sinning, therefore their righteous acts are as filthy rags.

So the question remains: How do you know if God's Spirit bears witness with your spirit that you are a child of God?

I have already given the answer.

 

[DHK]

1 Corinthians 15:8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

I have just shown you that Paul was unnaturally born into the Christian faith as an Apostle, because he did not believe in Jesus until after Jesus appeared to him on the road to Damascus.

NOW, reply to the fact that Paul did things before he was given the Holy Spirit! Acknowledge the Word of God!
Paul obeyed he fasted, and prayed!

You showed me nothing. Do you know what a simile is? It is a figure of speech that usually starts with the words "as" or "like."
Paul uses that figure speech here. "As to one abnormally born."

But where you got that translation, I don't know. It is not a good translation. Here is what the KJV says:

1 Corinthians 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
--It is "one born out of due time." It says nothing about "abnormal." It means that he became an apostle later than the others, and that is all.

Paul was saved, and when he was saved he began to obey. He was saved when he called upon the name of the Lord: "Lord what will you have me to do?" That is when he was saved.

You can't build your doctrine from the Book of Acts which shows a church in transition. That is what the Charismatics, especially the Oneness people do. They are unable to show the way of salvation without the book of Acts because they believe tongues are necessary to salvation. You are doing the same type of thing, using the same type of argument that they are using. Use the epistles for doctrine. You will never find the doctrine that you are promoting in the epistles. Acts is a historical book telling the history of the acts of the apostles. It is a book of the church in transition.

 

[Moriah]

The abnormality was an issue of "TIME" not MANNER! He was born out of due "TIME."

That makes no sense.

NOW, you acknowledge the Word of God and admit that Paul did actions before he was saved and given the Holy Spirit!

Paul obeyed Jesus and went where Jesus said to go.

Paul fasted for three days.

Paul prayed. Just try to imagine what those prayers were like!

 

[DHK]

He explained nothing. He went against my explanation that I have from the scriptures, yet he explained nothing.

He explained himself twice. Just because you didn't agree with him doesn't mean he didn't explain himself. You are lying about this.

That is illogic. For one thing, that is not what the filthy rags scripture is about, it is about those who HAVE a relationship with God, but they keep sinning, therefore their righteous acts are as filthy rags.

Righteousnesses that are considered as filthy rags are those works that are done by those who are not in a right standing before God. That was true of many of the Jews, and is true of many people today.

I have already given the answer.

If you have I have never seen it.

 

[Moriah]

But where you got that translation, I don't know. It is not a good translation. Here is what the KJV says:

I have a good translation Bible. Even if I only had the KJV, I still would not come up with the unbiblical doctrines that you come up with.

1 Corinthians 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
--It is "one born out of due time." It says nothing about "abnormal." It means that he became an apostle later than the others, and that is all.

It is about Paul not believing in Jesus as the other Apostles did! Paul persecuted the Christians.

Paul was saved, and when he was saved he began to obey. He was saved when he called upon the name of the Lord: "Lord what will you have me to do?" That is when he was saved.

Paul did not yet receive the Holy Spirit at that time. You deny the Word of God.

You can't build your doctrine from the Book of Acts which shows a church in transition.

I do not do as you say.

That is what the Charismatics, especially the Oneness people do.

You sure like to throw in other denominations when you debate me. It means nothing.

 

[DHK]

I have a good translation Bible. Even if I only had the KJV, I still would not come up with the unbiblical doctrines that you come up with.

It is about Paul not believing in Jesus as the other Apostles did! Paul persecuted the Christians.

"Born out of due time. It relates to time, as the verse says. Paul became an apostle later than the rest of them. That is why he mentions himself after the others. Offer any proof that he was born "unnaturally"? That could be considered a heresy. Why would that even be considered a good translation. For what earthly reason would a man be born unnaturally? Mannasseh of the OT did more wickedly than Paul did. Read about him. He sacrificed the children of Israel on altars, burning them alive!
What unbilblical doctrine have I come up with? Show me.

Paul did not yet receive the Holy Spirit at that time. You deny the Word of God.

When he received it is irrelevant, since the church was in transition.
When he was saved is what is relevant.
Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. That is what Paul said.
Paul called upon the name of the Lord, and was saved. The Holy Spirit may have come upon him at a later date, but that is irrelevant.

I do not do as you say.

Yes you are. In this way you pervert the Word of God. You take Scripture out of context. You ignore very important passages.

You sure like to throw in other denominations when you debate me. It means nothing.

Yes it does. When your doctrine aligns with another cult what is one to think? Besides, I was using that as an example of how they defend their doctrine. They cannot support their position outside the Book of Acts. You are doing the same thing.

 

[Yeshua1]

That makes no sense.

NOW, you acknowledge the Word of God and admit that Paul did actions before he was saved and given the Holy Spirit!

Paul obeyed Jesus and went where Jesus said to go.

Paul fasted for three days.

Paul prayed. Just try to imagine what those prayers were like!

paul was converted by God at that time, as he always referenced that event as His "born again" event! the Holy spirit came upon Him for service as an Apostle 3 days later when his blindness was healed byt he lord, but we CANNOT build our foundational doctrinal base off Acts, as that records accurately history, but God does not work today same way as he did in the Apsotolic era!

 

[Moriah]

paul was converted by God at that time, as he always referenced that event as His "born again" event! the Holy spirit came upon Him for service as an Apostle 3 days later when his blindness was healed byt he lord, but we CANNOT build our foundational doctrinal base off Acts, as that records accurately history, but God does not work today same way as he did in the Apsotolic era!

Paul did things before he was given the Holy Spirit. STOP denying the Truth.

 

[Yeshua1]

Paul did things before he was given the Holy Spirit. STOP denying the Truth.

judas did things, he obeyed what jesus told him too do...

was he saved?

the ONLY thing God commands us to do before getting saved is to turn to jesus, place faith/trust in him to save us!

Obeying Him starts after that, and is lifelong process!

 

[Moriah]

judas did things, he obeyed what jesus told him too do...

was he saved?

the ONLY thing God commands us to do before getting saved is to turn to jesus, place faith/trust in him to save us!

Obeying Him starts after that, and is lifelong process!

Are you kidding? Judas stole from the money that the disciples had to give to the poor.

 

[DHK]

Are you kidding? Judas stole from the money that the disciples had to give to the poor.

And Peter denied the Lord; was he saved.

At the hour of his death, all the disciples fled, forsaking Christ.
Were they saved?

 

[Moriah]

And Peter denied the Lord; was he saved.

At the hour of his death, all the disciples fled, forsaking Christ.
Were they saved?

You compare those things to a thief and a traitor to the Lord. Then you have absolutely no understanding whatsoever.

 

[DHK]

You compare those things to a thief and a traitor to the Lord. Then you have absolutely no understanding whatsoever.

Is that how you answer Biblical questions? That is quite shameful.

 

[Moriah]

Is that how you answer Biblical questions? That is quite shameful.

According to your beliefs, and Yeshua1’s, Judas is saved, since he did believe in Jesus. YOU TWO SAY WE HAVE TO DO NOTHING BUT BELIEVE.

 

[DHK]

According to your beliefs, and Yeshua1’s, Judas is saved, since he did believe in Jesus. YOU TWO SAY WE HAVE TO DO NOTHING BUT BELIEVE.

That is your opinion. I said "show through Scriptures." You didn't do that. Where in the Scriptures does it say that Judas believed?
Do you have Biblical proof?

 

[Moriah]

That is your opinion. I said "show through Scriptures." You didn't do that. Where in the Scriptures does it say that Judas believed?
Do you have Biblical proof?

Do you have biblical proof that Judas did not believe?

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you have biblical proof that Judas did not believe?

jesus said that Judas was a 'devil", that he knew that Judas would betray him, that he NEVER was saved, notr part of the ministry of the real Apostles!

Bible calls hima traitor, son of perdition, liar, thief, and that satan himself possessed him!

Does that sound like one who was ever saved?

 

[Moriah]

jesus said that Judas was a 'devil", that he knew that Judas would betray him, that he NEVER was saved, notr part of the ministry of the real Apostles!

Bible calls hima traitor, son of perdition, liar, thief, and that satan himself possessed him!

Does that sound like one who was ever saved?

You and DHK are the ones who wanted to use Judas to go against me!