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We have to obey Jesus!
- Thread starter Moriah
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It is an example of scores of others that say the same thing:
Rom.10:9,10,13; Acts 4:12; 1Cor.15:1-4; Acts 8:36-38; 10:43; John 3:16,17,36; 5:25; 20:31; 1:12; 1John 5:10, 12,13. Is that enough, or do you need more?
And you quote it too, in defense of the gospel going out into all the world, taking it out of its context. So what does it mean? It is talking about the stars in the sky? Do the stars in the sky tell the gospel Moriah? Explain yourself.
My links show your deceit and lies. Paul wrote the letter ten years before he went to Rome, as I have been saying. You use Romans 1:8 to try and prove that an apostle started the church, perhaps Paul. How does that work Moriah? Please explain. Explain the trap you are caught in here. Explain your deception and needless accusations.
As you gave the reference (Acts 23:11), it took place 10 years after he wrote Rom.1:8, your defense of Paul being in Rome. Why don't you admit you were wrong to use such a verse, and admit that Paul was not in Rome at that time (56 A.D.). Are you that proud and arrogant?
It is true, and it still is true as any objective reader can see.
I have shown where you are wrong and you stubbornly refuse to admit it.
There are no Scriptures that say obedience is required for salvation; such a doctrine is not Biblical.
That is not true.
I quoted Paul. Move on.
Paul testified about Jesus to Rome. Are you going to go against Jesus who says Paul will testify about him in Rome? Now, I would not ever say Paul did not testify about Jesus to Rome, but that was NOT my argument. YOU ARE MAKING UP THINGS. Prove it that I had said what you claim. Prove it now or repent.
Do you think you might need to rest for a while? Listen to yourself.
I NEVER TRIED TO PROVE ANY SUCH THING. I HAVE NEVER STATED EITHER WAY WHEN I BELIEVED PAUL WAS IN ROME. YOU CANNOT PROVE I DID. ALL I DID WAS QUOTE PAUL. QUOTE ME WHERE I HAVE STATED THAT IT EVEN MATTERS WHERE PAUL WAS WHEN HE WROTE TO ROME.
Again, maybe you could use a rest.
You cannot even admit error when you said Paul, nor any Apostle was ever in Rome. You tried to humiliate me when you spoke in error like that, you cannot even apologize. What do you do instead of admitting error and apologizing…you attack me with a bunch of untrue things.
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It doesn't matter that Paul was quoting Psalm 19:4. Psalm 19:1-4 is speaking of God's creation, specifically the stars, the universe. If you are ignorant of the Psalm and how Paul is using it whose fault is that. Now, since the verse is speaking of the heavens, how does that relate to the gospel? Did God write the gospel in the sky? the clouds? the stars? on the planets? Just what Moriah? You haven't explained the verse yet, and why you used it. Why should we move on when you just willy nilly pull verses out of the Bible and try to make them mean something that they don't. If you use a verse prepare to defend how and why you use it.
You do err. Or perhaps you are being a liar deliberately. I have told you this over and over again.
Read again my very first explanation to you:
There was no apostle present in Rome when the church started, or when Paul wrote the letter. Why are you being so dishonest here?
You need to listen; and then apologize.
What was the purpose of you using Romans 1:8, at the same time you used Psalm 19:4. It was to prove that the apostles had already gone into the world and fulfilled the Great Commission. You were trying to prove that an apostle had already been in Rome, by quoting Romans 1:8.
However, as I have quoted above I have shown you that no apostle was ever in Rome when Paul wrote his letter. No apostle ever went to Rome until at least 10 years after Paul wrote his epistle. You need to repent of your misrepresentation of what I have been saying, and your denial of the truth.
Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me.
Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
John 14:23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”
Luke 11:28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”
Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him—
Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
Matthew 21:32
32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
Mark 1:15
"The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!"
Matthew 3:2 and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.
Matthew 4:17
From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.”
Matthew 11:20
[ Woe on Unrepentant Cities ] Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent.
Matthew 11:21
“Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here.
Mark 6:12
They went out and preached that people should repent.
Luke 5:32
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Luke 13:5
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
Luke 24:47
and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
Acts 5:31
God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.
Romans 10:9-10 we are told to confess.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
If you want me to go through each one of these verse one at a time I will. But not one of them say that one must obey to be saved. Salvation is by faith not by obedience. You are wrong again.
DHK,
Why did you put Romans 10 for support that we only have to only believe when the scriptures in Romans say believe and confess?
Why did you put Acts 4:12 as support that we do not have to obey? Acts 4:12 says no such thing even about believing.
Why did you use 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 to support your false beliefs that we only have to believe, when those scriptures do not even mention believing?
Why did you say John 3:17 supports only to believe when it does not even mention believe?
Why did you use 1 John 5:12 to support only believe when it does not even mention believe?
DHK,
Out of these scriptures that you say speak of believing, only nine do.
All the nine scriptures that say believe, THEY DO NOT NULLIFY THE SCRIPTURES THAT TELL US TO REPENT AND OBEY. THESE SCRIPTURES ARE STATING THE TRUTH, THAT WE HAVE TO BELIEVE IN JESUS.
THE SCRIPTURES THAT ONLY SAY TO BELIEVE, THEY DO NOT NULLIFY THE SCRIPTURES THAT SAY TO REPENT AND OBEY, ANYMORE THAN THE SCRIPTURES THAT SAY TO REPENT AND OBEY NULLIFY THE SCRIPTURES THAT SAY BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!
THESE SCRIPTURES THAT I AM POSTING NEXT ONLY SPEAK OF REPENTING AND OBEYING AND NOT BELIEVING. AGAIN, THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE DO NOT HAVE TO BELIEVE!!!!!!
Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
John 14:23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”
Luke 11:28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”
Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
Matthew 3:2 and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.
Matthew 4:17
From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.”
Matthew 11:20
[ Woe on Unrepentant Cities ] Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent.
Matthew 11:21
“Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Mark 6:12
They went out and preached that people should repent.
Luke 5:32I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Luke 13:5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
Luke 24:47
and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
Acts 5:31
God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
DHK, DO YOU SEE ALL THOSE SCRIPTURES? THEY ALL SAY TO REPENT, T
BEY, NONE OF THEM SAY TO BELIEVE. NONE OF THEM SAY TO BELIEVE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? NONE OF THEM SAY TO BELIEVE. DOES THAT MEAN WE DO NOT HAVE TO BELIEVE? DOES IT MEAN WE DO NOT HAVE TO BELIEVE AND ONLY REPENT? NO!!!!!!!!!!! THOSE SCRIPTURES DO NOT MEAN REPENT WITHOUT BELIEVING. NO MORE THAN THE SCRIPTURES THAT SAY BELIEVE MEAN WE SHOULD NOT REPENT!!!!!!!!!!!Confession is simply the expression of one's belief or faith. It does not matter if one does it publicly or not. Eventually a Christian will publicly confess Christ. But one can trust Christ in the quietness of his own room without confessing Christ to anyone, without even opening one's mouth.
Acts 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
The "believe" is implied. There is no salvation in any other name but Christ.
Christ states the same truth in John 14:6. Does he have to use the word "believe"? It is obvious enough without it. "No man comes to the Father but by me." How else would you get there but by believing in him?
1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
--You must believe in the gospel; it must come from the heart as it says in Rom.10:9,10
Believe is mentioned in both vss. 16 and 18, Vs. 17 is simply a clarification of vs. 16.
Verse 13, which does mention believe, is based on the truth of verse 12:
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
If you have the Son you have life;
If you do not have the Son you do not have life.
You either have accepted him by faith or you have not.
Which have you done?
I believe every one of them, but not your interpretation of them, as you will see. You have taken many of them out of context. Remember we are speaking about salvation. Salvation is by faith and faith alone. It is not by faith and obedience. So why would you use Scripture that is directed to Christians, those who are already saved. That is why I know that you have taken Scripture out of context.
There is no scripture that requires one to obey in order to be saved.
There is no scripture that requires an unbeliever to obey in order to be saved.
What do you do? Look up the word "obey" in a concordance and when you find it then quote the verse even if you have no idea of the context???
CONTEXT:
Peter had been preaching, performing miracles, and then the Sanhedrin got jealous and arrested him. Peter testified before the Sanhedrin, the very ones that had crucified the Lord, and he told them so (vs. 30). It was a stern but powerful rebuke. Then Peter says in verse 32:
Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
But in verse 33:
Acts 5:33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
The "obey" is "obey the gospel," Repent of the terrible deed of crucifying Christ, and instead believe in Christ. But they didn't. They were convicted (cut to the heart), but decided to try and kill them instead.
He is speaking to his disciples. They don't need to be saved.
He is speaking to his disciples; his disciples don't need to be saved.
--not about salvation.
This is Jesus writing to a church--believers. They don't need salvation.
A message to the Jews, by John the Baptist.
He was preaching to the Jews.
He was preaching to the Jews.
To who? The Jews!
It was a rebuke to the Pharisees. He was speaking to the Jews.
The audience was the Jews.
The Great Commission, which you need to obey, is given to his apostles also. BTW, don't forget our obligation in vs. 48:
Luke 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
--We need to be witnesses, as he also says in Acts 1:8. That is our main obligation.
Take another post to explain this verse. One is saved by faith, not by baptism, and you know that. Or are you saved by taking a bath?
Context?
And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel
Peter was at the Temple addressing the Jews.
I have explained this verse already. Peter is speaking before the Sanhedrin.
This is a desire of the Lord which, because of the depraved nature of mankind will never be fulfilled. But since you don't know what the definition of repentance is in this verse it won't make sense to you anyway.
There was not one verse that commands any unbeliever to obey in order to get saved. You take Scripture after Scripture out of context. You should be ashamed.DHK, DO YOU SEE ALL THOSE SCRIPTURES? THEY ALL SAY TO REPENT, T
Answer this... is the Apostle John writting to those ALREADY been saved by God, letting them know that they need to be evidencing fruit, such as obeying and following in will of god, or is he telling them to start obeying God so that he can then save them?
DHK,
Out of these scriptures that you say speak of believing, only nine do.
All the nine scriptures that say believe, THEY DO NOT NULLIFY THE SCRIPTURES THAT TELL US TO REPENT AND OBEY. THESE SCRIPTURES ARE STATING THE TRUTH, THAT WE HAVE TO BELIEVE IN JESUS.
THE SCRIPTURES THAT ONLY SAY TO BELIEVE, THEY DO NOT NULLIFY THE SCRIPTURES THAT SAY TO REPENT AND OBEY, ANYMORE THAN THE SCRIPTURES THAT SAY TO REPENT AND OBEY NULLIFY THE SCRIPTURES THAT SAY BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!
THESE SCRIPTURES THAT I AM POSTING NEXT ONLY SPEAK OF REPENTING AND OBEYING AND NOT BELIEVING. AGAIN, THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE DO NOT HAVE TO BELIEVE!!!!!!
Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
John 14:23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”
Luke 11:28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”
Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
Matthew 3:2 and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.
Matthew 4:17
From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.”
Matthew 11:20
[ Woe on Unrepentant Cities ] Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent.
Matthew 11:21
“Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Mark 6:12
They went out and preached that people should repent.
Luke 5:32I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Luke 13:5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
Luke 24:47
and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
Acts 5:31
God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
DHK, DO YOU SEE ALL THOSE SCRIPTURES? THEY ALL SAY TO REPENT, T
jesus "whosoever believes"
John "he who believes"
paul "belive in your heart, confess with your mouth"
See a common trend here?
The scriptures telling us we have to believe, they do not nullify the fact that we have to confess. The scriptures telling us we have to repent, or confess, or obey, they do not nullify the scriptures that say we have to believe.
If you know someone who does not really feel as though they are saved, they do not feel loved by God, do not tell them to talk themselves into believing they are loved by God. Tell them what Jesus says, that if they want to be in God’s love, then start obeying, and then keep obeying.
When you feel angry and tell people they aren't saved, do you feel saved?
Or is that the time on the board that you are not saved?
I don't run my life by my feelings. I know that I am saved.
I know that I am saved because I trusted Christ as my Savior. I was saved by faith and faith alone. I don't have to keep on obeying to keep my salvation. Christ keeps my salvation for me. It is called eternal life, and it can never become temporary life. That would make Christ a liar.
For I am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
But you will fail. You are not persuaded that Christ is able to keep your salvation.
It makes no difference! For if, a person realizes they are NOT saved after all, then the remedy to that IS T
BEY AND HAVE PROOF OF THAT BY FRUITS THAT COME FROM OBEYING. Do you still not understand?
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