We have to obey Jesus!

[Alive in Christ]

For some reason, you do not like that I preach to obey.

I am simply attempting to help you concerning the legalism you are propogating.

Christ had hard core, drastic, SEVERE things to say regarding it.

With your statement, in the post that I quote right here, one can gather from what you said…that no Christian ever sins as soon as they believe in Jesus because they are living through Jesus, and
Jesus is doing the living for them and sinning is not a capability for us anymore.

Every christian alive still sins. But the more that we surrender ourseves to His life and presence in our life, we will..more and more..."put on" Christ.

Its the "better" way to true, and lasting, growth.

What you are propogating is the worst thing imaginable....


OBEY!! DO BETTER!! WORK HARDER!! MORE OBEDIENCE OBEY! etc etc etc..

It produces nothing but wood, hay, and stubble.

 

[DHK]

What do you not get about the only time faith alone is mentioned to tell us what kind of faith not to have?

You almost have me convinced that you have not left the Catholic Church yet. You keep using their arguments; their theology.
The Book of James was written to believers ("my brethren"). The "brethren" do not need to be saved. The topic has nothing to do with salvation. It is speaking of the believer's faith that produces works. Works always follow faith in Christ, and are never a perquisite for salvation. This has been explained to you and the Catholics on this board many times now. But perhaps you will forever remain a Catholic.

Your human wisdom falls far from the truth.

Call it what you will; Jesus used them too, only they were called parables. It was an illustration. It was to show you that a verse like Romans 5:1,
"Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God,"
doesn't need to have the word "alone" or "only" in it to have the meaning of "justified by faith alone." You have no answer for that argument, so you simply label it as human wisdom, just as the Pharisees labeled Jesus parables as "dark sayings."

Since you like worldly scenarios, here is one for you.

Suppose I am having a party. The invitation reads that the guest must bring the invitation card before allowed in the party. On the card, it mentions to dress accordingly.

For months before the party, I send men out to deliver the cards, reminding people to make sure they have the invitation card when they come, and to dress accordingly.

A few days before the party, some of the men warn them again not to forget to have their invitation card, or they will not be allowed in the party.

Now, does that now mean they do not have to dress accordingly anymore?

Why or why not do they still have to dress accordingly?

You don't make sense. Or your illustration has not point to it.

In the Bible, we are told we must have faith and repent. Sometimes the Bible only speaks of the faith part. Sometimes the Bible only speaks of the repent part. The scriptures that speak only of the repent part, those scriptures do not nullify the scriptures that tell us to have faith. The scriptures that only speak of having faith, those scriptures do not nullify the repent scriptures.

Again, your post indicates that you have no comprehension of what "faith" means.

That is illogical and unrealistic, to say that people cannot choose to obey anyone in anyway after being told how.

Go and read again. I never said anything close to that. Parlez vous Anglais?

You are wrong. You do not make sense, for we do not even have to understand why God wants us to do this and that, but we do it anyway, THEN GOD REVEALS TO US WHY HE TOLD US TO DO WHAT HE SAYS. Have you not heard of the scripture to lean no on your own understanding? We do not even have to have understanding!

The Ethiopian Eunuch said:
How can I understand unless someone show me?
It was impossible for him to understand anything about God without the aid of someone else. Man does not seek after God, does not understand God, cannot do good for God. It is not natural for him to do so.

I easily prove you wrong from the scriptures. Even wisdom, the common sense wisdom proves you wrong, for when you teach you have to understand something before you do it. Do you understand how the TV works before you could turn it on, turn the channel, adjust the volume? NO. Most people have no idea how a TV, phone, computer, car, or anything works, but that does not mean you cannot read the manual and do what it says so that you can enjoy the item! Common sense wisdom proves you wrong on many accounts, even when you say a person cannot believe in God after having been taught! Common sense shows you that people believe in all sorts of things in the world after having been taught!
When Philip took the Scroll from the Ethiopian, he began at the same passage and preached unto him Jesus. Then the Ethiopian Eunuch began to understand. On his own, with the book of Isaiah in hand, he understood nothing. The unsaved man cannot understand spiritual things.

I have been explaining to you patiently for a long time that Jesus does not need our help to save us.

Then why do you keep on contradicting yourself and saying he does. If you truly believed what you just said you would not keep saying that works and obedience are necessary for salvation. As long as you hold to that position you are claiming that Jesus shed blood was not enough to pay the penalty for our sins, which is a blasphemous heresy.

What Jesus did was done a couple thousand years ago! How do you say I say Jesus needs my help with anything?

Jesus is eternal. You keep saying He needs your help because you keep saying that your works are necessary for salvation.

I need Jesus’ help! God sent people to give the message about His Son. The good news the men preached tells us what people Jesus will save. I get the instructions, I desire to be saved, I do what the instructions say! How does that mean I had anything to do with what Jesus did?

Then why do you keep saying obedience and works are required for salvation.

The Bible says God chooses us. YOU STILL NEVER ANSWERED ME IN HOW GOD CHOOSES US. The Bible says always have an answer. Give me your answer.

Did you choose Christ or did Christ choose you?
Christ chooses us on the basis of his omniscience that he already knows that we are going to choose him. It is we that make the choice. Either you receive him or reject him. Which did you do?

That is to them WHBEY. So stop going against me for spurring others on to obey.

No it isn't. It is a promise to them, who by faith, have believed in Christ. You evade this again and again. Here were my words.

Again this is your answer to John 10:27,28. It has nothing to do with the verse. Deal with the text, the promise of eternal life, that they will never perish.

You just proved once again that you don't know how to answer John 10:27,28, a promise given by Christ to believers that they will never perish.

You put in quotes something not in that scripture! Jesus does not say what you say "which ever believer"! Jesus says "whoever" believes. Your claim that Jesus was speaking to the Apostles only, that he will give the Holy Spirit to them for obeying, that does not mean no one else has to obey before they receive the Holy Spirit! NONSENSE.

It is taken from John 14 correct? He was speaking to his disciples in the upper room, correct? He was speaking only to believers, correct? The context then, is only to believers. There were only believers present. You cannot apply a verse directed at the disciples only to unbelievers. This is your kind of hermeneutic, taking Scripture out of context, and thus making it mean something it doesn't. It is a verse applicable only to believers.

 

[Moriah]

I am simply attempting to help you concerning the legalism you are propogating.
Christ had hard core, drastic, SEVERE things to say regarding it.

I do not do what Jesus calls legalism. This is a serious error on your behalf. Jesus spoke about legalism and the Pharisees and teachers of the law ADDING commands not taught by God, and forcing people to obey them, commands added upon commands. In addition, Jesus speaks about no mercy from the Pharisees and teachers of the law. You have falsely judged me.
You do not speak according to the scriptures about what Jesus says concerning legalism. If you do not speak according to the scriptures, then I do not care what you say, except to correct you. You are judging me, and falsely at that. I tell people they we have to obey Jesus, and that causes you to come at me with attacks.

Every christian alive still sins. But the more that we surrender ourseves to His life and presence in our life, we will..more and more..."put on" Christ.

Its the "better" way to true, and lasting, growth.

What you are propogating is the worst thing imaginable....


OBEY!! DO BETTER!! WORK HARDER!! MORE OBEDIENCE OBEY! etc etc etc..

It produces nothing but wood, hay, and stubble.

You are confused. This debate is about people here saying we do not have to obey Jesus to be saved, or remain saved.
Go back and start from the beginning of the thread and read more carefully, especially when you want to come here to be judge and jury.

 

[DHK]

You are confused. This debate is about people here saying we do not have to obey Jesus to be saved, or remain saved.
Go back and start from the beginning of the thread and read more carefully, especially when you want to come here to be judge and jury.

The debate is for anyone who wishes to enter in. You are not God: judge, jury and executioner, as you just passed judgment on AIC. Respond with a bit more grace and civility.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Moriah....


you posted....

I do not do what Jesus calls legalism. This is a serious error on your behalf. Jesus spoke about legalism and the Pharisees and teachers of the law ADDING commands not taught by God, and forcing people to obey them, commands added upon commands. In addition, Jesus speaks about no mercy from the Pharisees and teachers of the law. You have falsely judged me.

You are in error. Legalism is indeed what you posted there, but it is also proclaiming that people must OBEY Christs commands in order to be saved.

That is not only legalism, it is also proclaiming a FALSE GOSPLE.

The only condition that must be met to be saved is sincere faith in Christ. ANYTHING added to that makes it a false gosple.

 

[Moriah]

The Book of James was written to believers ("my brethren").

What difference does it make if James was speaking to the saved, or the unsaved seeking to be saved?! It makes NO difference. Faith without good action does not save, it is dead, and that is what James says.

Do you think the writings in the New Testament were locked and restricted to only those already saved? Lol Do you think that curses will come on the unsaved if they pick up the Holy Bible to read what the Creator says.

The "brethren" do not need to be saved.

The brethren are not saved if they say they believe and do not have good actions with their faith. Apostle James says such a faith cannot save a man.
Not everyone sitting in a church is already saved. Going to church does not mean a person is saved. Everyone can learn the letters read from the Apostles at church, how else do you think people can reject Jesus if they never hear of him? Stop with the same defense that it is to the believers and not those not yet saved, for it MAKES NOT ONE BIT OF DIFFERENC WHO THE AUDIENCE IS.

The Apostles spoke in public places, reading the scriptures and trying to reconcile people to God through Jesus. In the audience of the preachers, there are believers, unbelievers, and those seeking God.

Just imagine for a minute, in the New Testament times, that an unbeliever comes into the Church while the preacher is reading that chapter from James…do you really think the preacher would say what you say? NO. The preacher would not stop and look at the newcomer and say, this part about faith without obeying is not for you, for you are not to obey Jesus yet, if you even think you can obey Jesus you are accursed.

The topic has nothing to do with salvation.

How do you ever get that any part of the Bible is not about salvation. Again, you speak nonsense. Obeying has to do with salvation. You are confusing and teaching confusion.

How in the world do you get that you can keep sinning but still have salvation from sin.

It is speaking of the believer's faith that produces works.

Therefore, you think James is telling people something that IS NEVER POSSIBLE. How do you ever get that James is speaking of something that you claim is NOT happening to believers and CAN NEVER happen to believers?

It is a work to believe, and it is a work to repent. They are the works required for Jesus to save someone. They are light works, and they are easy. It is still required for God to save you.

Not only are we to believe and obey to be saved, we must continue to believe and obey after we are saved! You keep teaching we do not have to obey after we are saved, that is absurd.

Works always follow faith in Christ, and are never a perquisite for salvation.

You see your contradiction, you say “works always follow faith in Christ,” so then, why DO YOU SAY A PERSON DOES NOT HAVE TBEY AFTER THEY ARE SAVED?

Stop teaching confusion.

For you to say works always follow faith in Christ, then you should STOP TEACHING THAT PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE TBEY, THAT THEY ARE STILL SAVED. You contradict yourself.

Call it what you will; Jesus used them too, only they were called parables. It was an illustration. It was to show you that a verse like Romans 5:1,

You did not give a good analogy as Jesus would.

"Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God,"
doesn't need to have the word "alone" or "only" in it to have the meaning of "justified by faith alone." You have no answer for that argument, so you simply label it as human wisdom, just as the Pharisees labeled Jesus parables as "dark sayings."

Are you suggesting that your ‘parable’ was as Jesus’ parables?

Go and read again. I never said anything close to that. Parlez vous Anglais?

You do teach we cannot obey Jesus until after we are saved. Remember your cop and robber quote you got from a Calvinist.

The Ethiopian Eunuch said:
How can I understand unless someone show me?
It was impossible for him to understand anything about God without the aid of someone else. Man does not seek after God, does not understand God, cannot do good for God. It is not natural for him to do so.

Ha ha ha ha What do you think the eunuch was doing? Hiding from God? lol

When Philip took the Scroll from the Ethiopian, he began at the same passage and preached unto him Jesus. Then the Ethiopian Eunuch began to understand. On his own, with the book of Isaiah in hand, he understood nothing. The unsaved man cannot understand spiritual things.

The eunuch did not have the New Testament in his hands now did he? Lol
I always teach faith comes from hearing. A person can read about the Word of God in the New Testament. They can believe in Jesus, and get Jesus’ teachings and start obeying. Not everyone is saved at a church, or by a preacher.

Then why do you keep on contradicting yourself and saying he does. If you truly believed what you just said you would not keep saying that works and obedience are necessary for salvation. As long as you hold to that position you are claiming that Jesus shed blood was not enough to pay the penalty for our sins, which is a blasphemous heresy.

Jesus knows me, and I know Jesus. The things you accuse me of are not true.

You are the one teaching falseness. I would be afraid if I were you. When is it ever normal to teach someone not to obey Jesus? When is it ever okay to call the gospel such foul things that you do when I talk about it? When is it ever okay for you to judge me the way you do?

Jesus is eternal. You keep saying He needs your help because you keep saying that your works are necessary for salvation.

Jesus chooses whom he will save. I am speaking of his requirements, the kind of heart he will save. It is in the Bible, and it is the faith that I am contending.

Did you choose Christ or did Christ choose you?
Christ chooses us on the basis of his omniscience that he already knows that we are going to choose him. It is we that make the choice. Either you receive him or reject him. Which did you do?

We can search for God. God chooses whom He will save.

No it isn't. It is a promise to them, who by faith, have believed in Christ. You evade this again and again. Here were my words.

Again this is your answer to John 10:27,28. It has nothing to do with the verse. Deal with the text, the promise of eternal life, that they will never perish.

You just proved once again that you don't know how to answer John 10:27,28, a promise given by Christ to believers that they will never perish.

IF they continue in the faith, if they stand firm to the end. Jesus warns us throughout the Bible.

It is taken from John 14 correct? He was speaking to his disciples in the upper room, correct? He was speaking only to believers, correct? The context then, is only to believers. There were only believers present. You cannot apply a verse directed at the disciples only to unbelievers. This is your kind of hermeneutic, taking Scripture out of context, and thus making it mean something it doesn't. It is a verse applicable only to believers.

With your denial and logic, Jesus was speaking only to those already saved, and not to people who would be saved. That does not make sense.

 

[Moriah]

Moriah....


you posted....




You are in error. Legalism is indeed what you posted there, but it is also proclaiming that people must OBEY Christs commands in order to be saved.

That is not only legalism, it is also proclaiming a FALSE GOSPLE.

The only condition that must be met to be saved is sincere faith in Christ. ANYTHING added to that makes it a false gosple.

Then you accuse the Apostles of being legalists and of teaching another gospel when they tell people to obey. LOL

 

[Moriah]

The debate is for anyone who wishes to enter in. You are not God: judge, jury and executioner, as you just passed judgment on AIC. Respond with a bit more grace and civility.

Whatever DHK.
LOL

 

[DHK]

What difference does it make if James was speaking to the saved, or the unsaved seeking to be saved?! It makes NO difference. Faith without good action does not save, it is dead, and that is what James says.

You need to start studying the Bible, and not simply pulling texts here and there like the Catholics do. It makes a difference where the verse is found. Context always makes a difference. The theme of the book of James is practical Christian living, whereas the theme of Romans is soteriology--the doctrine of salvation. James challenges believers to "show them how to live by their works." Paul says "a man is justified by faith and not of works. James does not talk about salvation.

Do you think the writings in the New Testament were locked and restricted to only those already saved? Lol Do you think that curses will come on the unsaved if they pick up the Holy Bible to read what the Creator says.

The Bible says that the unsaved will not understand spiritual things. Read 1Cor.2:14.

The brethren are not saved if they say they believe and do not have good actions with their faith. Apostle James says such a faith cannot save a man.

That is not true. James says that faith produces works. Genuine faith in Christ will result in works. He is speaking to Christians.

Not everyone sitting in a church is already saved. Going to church does not mean a person is saved. Everyone can learn the letters read from the Apostles at church, how else do you think people can reject Jesus if they never hear of him? Stop with the same defense that it is to the believers and not those not yet saved, for it MAKES NOT ONE BIT OF DIFFERENC WHO THE AUDIENCE IS.

First, James was writing to saved individuals that he calls "my brethren."
Secondly, it wasn't a church like yours that may have unsaved people in it. There is no comparison.
Third, people were saved by the people going out and witnessing to them--by carrying out the Great Commission--something you don't believe in.
Fourth, if you do not consider who the audience is, you demonstrate that you don't know much about the interpretation of the Bible, just like that Ethiopian Eunuch didn't. "How can I understand except some man teach me," he said. You are in the same boat.

The Apostles spoke in public places, reading the scriptures and trying to reconcile people to God through Jesus. In the audience of the preachers, there are believers, unbelievers, and those seeking God.

Not always. Paul taught Timothy privately. Jesus spent three years of his life investing it in twelve men.

Just imagine for a minute, in the New Testament times, that an unbeliever comes into the Church while the preacher is reading that chapter from James…do you really think the preacher would say what you say? NO. The preacher would not stop and look at the newcomer and say, this part about faith without obeying is not for you, for you are not to obey Jesus yet, if you even think you can obey Jesus you are accursed.

In any message, even to Christians, the unsaved are addressed as those who cannot please God no matter how hard they try. They cannot please God until they first trust Christ. That is what they first must do. They won't understand what the preacher is saying or preaching about until the first trust Christ as their Savior.

How do you ever get that any part of the Bible is not about salvation. Again, you speak nonsense. Obeying has to do with salvation. You are confusing and teaching confusion.

Much of the Bible is not about salvation. Obedience does not have to do with salvation; you are very confused.

How in the world do you get that you can keep sinning but still have salvation from sin.

Where did I say that, or did you just say that you are sinless?

Therefore, you think James is telling people something that IS NEVER POSSIBLE. How do you ever get that James is speaking of something that you claim is NOT happening to believers and CAN NEVER happen to believers?

You are confused. I simply said: James is teaching that Genuine faith produces works. Why is that a teaching "that is never possible"?

It is a work to believe, and it is a work to repent. They are the works required for Jesus to save someone. They are light works, and they are easy. It is still required for God to save you.

Faith is not a work. In that you do err. You have the same belief as SBM.

Not only are we to believe and obey to be saved, we must continue to believe and obey after we are saved! You keep teaching we do not have to obey after we are saved, that is absurd.

One does not have to obey to be saved or to continue to obey in order to continue to be saved. That is a well known heresy.

You see your contradiction, you say “works always follow faith in Christ,” so then, why DO YOU SAY A PERSON DOES NOT HAVE TBEY AFTER THEY ARE SAVED?

Stop teaching confusion.

I said:
Works always follow faith in Christ, and are never a perquisite for salvation.
--Where is the confusion? They are not necessary for one to be saved, nor are they necessary to keep one saved. Works are done after one is saved out of love for the Savior.

For you to say works always follow faith in Christ, then you should STOP TEACHING THAT PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE TBEY, THAT THEY ARE STILL SAVED. You contradict yourself.

No contradiction. Works neither save nor keep one saved. Faith alone saves. For by grace are ye saved through faith, and not of works.

Are you suggesting that your ‘parable’ was as Jesus’ parables?

It was an illustration, and that is what a parable is. You couldn't understand it or else dismissed it just like the Pharisees did with the Parables of Jesus.

You do teach we cannot obey Jesus until after we are saved. Remember your cop and robber quote you got from a Calvinist.

Yes, but you take Scripture out of context.
However, the unsaved cannot please God. They search for God as a robber seeks for a policeman. That is correct, and it is not just a Calvinistic belief.

Ha ha ha ha What do you think the eunuch was doing? Hiding from God? lol

The Eunuch was a Jewish convert from Ethiopia returning from Pentecost and going back to Ethiopia. As a convert to Judaism, he was very religious and reading Isaiah. As unsaved he couldn't read with understanding. He had no spiritual insight into the Scriptures. Hiding from God?
He couldn't find him no matter how long he searched. God had to reach down and find him. Therefore he sent to him, Philip.

The eunuch did not have the New Testament in his hands now did he? Lol
I always teach faith comes from hearing. A person can read about the Word of God in the New Testament. They can believe in Jesus, and get Jesus’ teachings and start obeying. Not everyone is saved at a church, or by a preacher.

The gospel is in the OT as well, especially in the book of Isaiah which the Eunuch was reading. Philip started at the same place and preached unto him Jesus. I know you are not as skilled in the Word as Philip was. But he was able to lead him to the Lord with just the OT.

Jesus knows me, and I know Jesus. The things you accuse me of are not true.

Yes they are. You think that you can help Jesus pay the penalty of your sins because you believe you have to work for your salvation. If salvation is not by grace through faith, but also by works, then you take away from the very work of Christ.

You are the one teaching falseness. I would be afraid if I were you. When is it ever normal to teach someone not to obey Jesus? When is it ever okay to call the gospel such foul things that you do when I talk about it? When is it ever okay for you to judge me the way you do?

You cannot teach an unsaved person to obey Christ.
Philip never taught the Eunuch to obey Christ until after he was saved. Then he taught him the need for baptism.
The same was true with the jailor. Paul taught him about salvation, and then the jailor took him home where he could preach the gospel to the rest of his family, and where he could obey the Lord in baptism as well. But first he had to be saved.
An unsaved person cannot obey Christ.

Jesus chooses whom he will save. I am speaking of his requirements, the kind of heart he will save. It is in the Bible, and it is the faith that I am contending.

You speak like a Calvinist. How do you know he has chosen you?

We can search for God. God chooses whom He will save.

People search for God who live in Arabic lands and end up believing in Allah. They can't search for God. How do you know he chose you?

IF they continue in the faith, if they stand firm to the end. Jesus warns us throughout the Bible.

You will never do that; you can't. One can only continue if they live according to the Spirit and not by the flesh. All the works you do in the flesh are all for naught.

With your denial and logic, Jesus was speaking only to those already saved, and not to people who would be saved. That does not make sense.

It does not make sense to you, but it is what the Bible teaches. In John 14 Jesus was speaking only to his disciples, and thus only to believers. The unsaved cannot please God.

 

[Moriah]

James challenges believers to "show them how to live by their works." Paul says "a man is justified by faith and not of works. James does not talk about salvation.

The whole Bible is about salvation.

All the few scriptures in the Bible that say no works, it is about circumcision, and or the law. Just check the scriptures, read what came before or after those scriptures, you will see that the works ARE circumcision and the works of the law.

The Bible says that the unsaved will not understand spiritual things. Read 1Cor.2:14.

We are NOT supposed to lean on our own understanding, but if we obey what God says to do, even though we do not understand why, God will reveal it to us afterwards.

That is not true. James says that faith produces works. Genuine faith in Christ will result in works. He is speaking to Christians.

So then, the one who says he has faith but does not have works is NOT really saved! DO YOU GET IT NOW?

First, James was writing to saved individuals that he calls "my brethren."
Secondly, it wasn't a church like yours that may have unsaved people in it. There is no comparison.

So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 1 Corinthians 14:23.
Did you read that? UNBELIEVERS WENT TO THE CHURCHES! Paul explains that. For you to say they did not is more of your UNREASONABLE BELIEFS.

In any message, even to Christians, the unsaved are addressed as those who cannot please God no matter how hard they try.

Those seeking God do not displease Him when they search. We are told to search for Him.

They cannot please God until they first trust Christ. That is what they first must do. They won't understand what the preacher is saying or preaching about until the first trust Christ as their Savior.

Show scriptures for that confusion that you speak. What does that mean? You are talking like a Calvinist. You say they will NOT understand what the preacher is saying until they trust Jesus first WHAT? What do they trust in if they cannot understand? What a mess you teach.

Readers, just get Jesus’ teachings, start obeying them, then you will receive the Holy Spirit. You do not even have to go to a church ever. You will be a part of the true church, the body of Christ.

Much of the Bible is not about salvation. Obedience does not have to do with salvation; you are very confused.

What part of the Bible is not about salvation? What part of the Bible does not have to do with obedience?

Where did I say that, or did you just say that you are sinless?

You have said it often, that a person does not have to stop sinning neither to be saved, nor to remain saved.

You are confused. I simply said: James is teaching that Genuine faith produces works. Why is that a teaching "that is never possible"?

That is NOT what you simply say. If you simply said that, then you would not be going against me. If a person hears the gospel, and they have genuine faith, then why cannot they do works too, since you say genuine faith produces works!

You say genuine faith produces works, THEN YOU SAY TOO THAT A PERSON DOES NOT HAVE TO DO ANY WORKS AND THEY WOULD STILL BE SAVED.

You teach confusion. You teach nonsense.

Faith without works is a message for unbelievers, for the unsaved seeking to be saved, and that goes for those already saved. That is the plain and simple truth. Believe and obey.

Faith is not a work. In that you do err.

Jesus says faith is the work God requires. Jesus says that. However, you say, does Jesus really say that?

One does not have to obey to be saved or to continue to obey in order to continue to be saved. That is a well known heresy.

BUT YOU JUST SAID THAT GENUINE FAITH PRODUCES GOOD WORKS. YOU SAID EARLIER THAT IT COMES NATURALLY, SO THEN HOW COULD YOU EVEN KNOW IF A PERSON COULD BE SAVED WITHOUT DOING GOOD WORKS IF IT NATURALLY FOLLOWS FAITH?

As I said before, you teach confusion.

I said:
Works always follow faith in Christ, and are never a perquisite for salvation.
--Where is the confusion? They are not necessary for one to be saved, nor are they necessary to keep one saved.

Then how is the person being renewed?

Works are done after one is saved out of love for the Savior.

We are not in God’s love until we obey. We do not know God unless we obey. So how can you say you obey out of love, obeying is to love.

Yes, but you take Scripture out of context.
However, the unsaved cannot please God. They search for God as a robber seeks for a policeman. That is correct, and it is not just a Calvinistic belief.

A Calvinist made up that quote. Man’s wisdom is garbage next to God’s wisdom.

The Eunuch was a Jewish convert from Ethiopia returning from Pentecost and going back to Ethiopia. As a convert to Judaism, he was very religious and reading Isaiah. As unsaved he couldn't read with understanding. He had no spiritual insight into the Scriptures. Hiding from God?
He couldn't find him no matter how long he searched. God had to reach down and find him. Therefore he sent to him, Philip.

The eunuch was searching for God, not hiding from God, as you say only the unsaved can do.

Philip started at the same place and preached unto him Jesus. But he was able to lead him to the Lord with just the OT.

No DHK, Philip did not lead the eunuch to the Lord with just the Old Testament. Jesus himself taught Philip. Philip led the eunuch to Jesus because Philip was taught about it from Jesus. You can find out about that from the NEW TESTMENT. LOL

You cannot teach an unsaved person to obey Christ.

Here comes your Calvinism again.

Philip never taught the Eunuch to obey Christ until after he was saved. Then he taught him the need for baptism.

What ridiculous nonsense, for you to tell people that no one knows they have to stop sinning and obey God until after they are saved? What do you think the gospel message is about? It is about Jesus dying for our sins. Ha ha ha

You speak like a Calvinist. How do you know he has chosen you?

Because Jesus revealed himself to me. Just as he said, to those who get his teachings and obey them.

People search for God who live in Arabic lands and end up believing in Allah. They can't search for God.

How do you know for sure they searched for God? Maybe they never searched but only believed what they were taught. Did they hear the truth and reject it?

How do you know he chose you?

Because while I was searching for God, I got Jesus’ teachings and obeyed them, then Jesus revealed himself to me and saved me.

 

[DHK]

The whole Bible is about salvation.

All the few scriptures in the Bible that say no works, it is about circumcision, and or the law. Just check the scriptures, read what came before or after those scriptures, you will see that the works ARE circumcision and the works of the law.

Much of the Bible is about sanctification. Much of the Bible is about glorification. Some of the Bible is about the diet of the Israeites, Creation, the Tower of Babel, Abraham's life, the rule of the Judges, and so on. You have a very limited knowledge of the Bible.

The Bible speaks much about good works which have nothing to do with circumcision. Here are some for you to ponder on:

[FONT=&quot]Revelation 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1 Peter 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]James 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Titus 3:14 And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Titus 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Good works are not the works of the law and have nothing to do with circumcision. In Revelation what are "thy works" referring to the Lamb of God"? Are they also the works of law?
[/FONT]

We are NOT supposed to lean on our own understanding, but if we obey what God says to do, even though we do not understand why, God will reveal it to us afterwards.

You are posting your understanding, your philosophy, and ignoring the Bible. You ignore what 1Cor.2:14 says, that the unsaved man cannot understand spiritual things. He therefore cannot obey what God says, unless he gets saved first.

So then, the one who says he has faith but does not have works is NOT really saved! DO YOU GET IT NOW?

As I keep saying James is writing to Christians. A Christians faith is evidenced by his works. That is all he is saying. I have never changed my view. The book is not about salvation.

So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 1 Corinthians 14:23.
Did you read that? UNBELIEVERS WENT TO THE CHURCHES! Paul explains that. For you to say they did not is more of your UNREASONABLE BELIEFS.

First, that has nothing to do with our conversation for tongues have ceased.
Secondly, the church at Corinth was the most carnal church that Paul wrote to. Some of the even denied the resurrection of Christ (ch. 15). Is that what your church is like? Our church is not patterned after the church at Corinth: divisions, carnality, gross immorality, suing one another, marital problems as divorce, problems of ethics, idolatry, keeping the Lord's Table properly, proper order in the church, issues concerning love for one another and cliques, and doctrinal error to a denial of the resurrection. Well you have quite a church there Moriah!

Those seeking God do not displease Him when they search. We are told to search for Him.

Believers are told to search for him. "I will seek thee early in the morning."
The unsaved cannot seek God. They will not seek God.

Show scriptures for that confusion that you speak. What does that mean? You are talking like a Calvinist. You say they will NOT understand what the preacher is saying until they trust Jesus first WHAT? What do they trust in if they cannot understand? What a mess you teach.

I gave you Scripture.
The Ethiopian could not understand what he was reading until Philip came and helped him.
Paul said quite clearly:
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
--I believe what the Bible says; what do you believe?

Readers, just get Jesus’ teachings, start obeying them, then you will receive the Holy Spirit. You do not even have to go to a church ever. You will be a part of the true church, the body of Christ.

That is not true. An unsaved person cannot obey God unless he firsts trust Christ as his Savior. Only then will he have the power to obey God.

What part of the Bible is not about salvation? What part of the Bible does not have to do with obedience?

Most of it. I have given you some examples already.
What does this have to do with salvation:

Isaiah 3:18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon,
19 The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,
20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings,
21 The rings, and nose jewels,
22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins,
23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the vails.

--Beware. Perhaps the Lord will take away your muffler! :laugh:

You have said it often, that a person does not have to stop sinning neither to be saved, nor to remain saved.

That is true. It is Jesus that saves, and it is he who keeps one saved. I have nothing to do with it. Salvation is all of the Lord. What can I do to merit salvation? Nothing. Jesus paid it all; all to him I owe. Sin has left a crimson stain. He washed it white as snow.

But that is not what you quoted me as saying.

That is NOT what you simply say. If you simply said that, then you would not be going against me. If a person hears the gospel, and they have genuine faith, then why cannot they do works too, since you say genuine faith produces works!

Works don't save. Faith in Christ saves. Works are the evidence of that genuine faith that James is speaking of. But remember he is speaking to Christians.
Works follow salvation; always.

You say genuine faith produces works, THEN YOU SAY TOO THAT A PERSON DOES NOT HAVE TO DO ANY WORKS AND THEY WOULD STILL BE SAVED.

The thief on the cross didn't do any works. He never had a chance. He was still saved.

You teach confusion. You teach nonsense.

Works don't save, and works don't keep a person saved. It is Christ that saves, and it is Christ that keeps a person saved. There is nothing confusing about that Biblical message.

 

[DHK]

Faith without works is a message for unbelievers, for the unsaved seeking to be saved, and that goes for those already saved. That is the plain and simple truth. Believe and obey.

No. You have the message of unbelievers. Christianity is the only faith in all the world that teaches salvation is by faith alone: sola fide. Every other religion of the world teaches salvation must be by works, as you do. You are no different than Muslims, Hindus, or even the RCC. You have gone astray from Biblical Christianity.

Jesus says faith is the work God requires. Jesus says that. However, you say, does Jesus really say that?

Jesus did not teach that; you have misunderstood him. Faith is not a work.

BUT YOU JUST SAID THAT GENUINE FAITH PRODUCES GOOD WORKS. YOU SAID EARLIER THAT IT COMES NATURALLY, SO THEN HOW COULD YOU EVEN KNOW IF A PERSON COULD BE SAVED WITHOUT DOING GOOD WORKS IF IT NATURALLY FOLLOWS FAITH?

As I said before, you teach confusion.

BTW, are you angry? Posting with all CAPS means one is angry.
1. Good works is a product of genuine faith in Christ. However salvation in Christ is by faith alone.
2. Good works comes naturally to a Christian for the Spirit dwells within, and he wants to do them. He is not being forced to do good works. He does them out of love for His Savior.
3. There is nothing confusing about that. Works cannot save.

Then how is the person being renewed?

Not through works.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
--He is renewed in his spirit and in his mind. That is accomplished through the Word of God.

We are not in God’s love until we obey. We do not know God unless we obey. So how can you say you obey out of love, obeying is to love.

That is foolishness. One cannot love God until he trusts him as his Savior. Until that time he remains an enemy of God.

A Calvinist made up that quote. Man’s wisdom is garbage next to God’s wisdom. [/qutoe]
However, the unsaved cannot please God. They search for God as a robber seeks for a policeman.

Do you have proof that a Calvinist made up the quote.
How can I say I obey out of love? Are you calling me a liar? That is my testimony. Obeying is not necessarily to obey. For example, the Hindu lady throws her child to the alligators in the Indus River in India for a sacrifice. She obeys. But she walks away sorrowful, even weeping. Was done out of duty or love.
Many Christians obey in the same way, but not as sacrificially. They obey out of duty, or because their parents, leaders, pastors, etc. say so. It is not out of love, but rather duty. Obedience is not love. True love will produce obedience not the other way around.

The eunuch was searching for God, not hiding from God, as you say only the unsaved can do.

You are not God, and do not know the Eunuch's heart. It is not told. He was a religious man, a Jew, returning from Jerusalem, reading Isaiah. We are not told why. Religious people do religious things.

No DHK, Philip did not lead the eunuch to the Lord with just the Old Testament. Jesus himself taught Philip. Philip led the eunuch to Jesus because Philip was taught about it from Jesus. You can find out about that from the NEW TESTMENT. LOL
You didn't read the account yet.
From the same scripture he preached unto him Jesus.
He used the OT to preach Jesus.

Is this such a strange thing to you? He taught his disciples the same way:
Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

What ridiculous nonsense, for you to tell people that no one knows they have to stop sinning and obey God until after they are saved? What do you think the gospel message is about? It is about Jesus dying for our sins. Ha ha ha

They hear the gospel, and then have the opportunity to receive it or reject it. If they receive it, they receive it by faith and faith alone. That is what salvation is all about. There are no works involved. After salvation the first work of obedience is to be baptized, which is what the Eunuch asked to do. You sound very confused.

Because Jesus revealed himself to me. Just as he said, to those who get his teachings and obey them.

How was he revealed to you?

How do you know for sure they searched for God? Maybe they never searched but only believed what they were taught. Did they hear the truth and reject it?

If they were in a land like Saudia Arabia, where no missionaries are allowed, and even Bible Studies are illegal, the only "god" they would hear about is "Allah."
The only chance for them to hear the truth about the true and living God is if you would be a missionary to them, obeying the Great Commission, and giving the gospel to these people, no matter what the cost would be to your own life. Otherwise their search for "God" will end up in a belief in "Allah."
Are you willing to forsake all and follow Jesus?

Because while I was searching for God, I got Jesus’ teachings and obeyed them, then Jesus revealed himself to me and saved me.

How did Jesus save you?

 

[Moriah]

You have a very limited knowledge of the Bible.

You have a lot of nerve. Lol

The Bible speaks much about good works which have nothing to do with circumcision. Here are some for you to ponder on:

Revelation 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

1 Peter 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

James 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Titus 3:14 And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Titus 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.


Good works are not the works of the law and have nothing to do with circumcision. In Revelation what are "thy works" referring to the Lamb of God"? Are they also the works of law?

DHK, As I have always tried to tell you, there are the works, like circumcision and other ceremonial works of the Old Testament. We do not do those works anymore.

However, we are to do the works in the NEW TESTAMENT. The New Testament is where we have the new and better law, the PERFECT LAW.
In fact, let it be a rebuke to you when you teach we do not even have to do obey at all and we will still be saved.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Believe and obey!

 

[Moriah]

You are posting your understanding, your philosophy, and ignoring the Bible. You ignore what 1Cor.2:14 says, that the unsaved man cannot understand spiritual things. He therefore cannot obey what God says, unless he gets saved first.

1 Corinthians 2:14 is about two different kinds of people, worldly people, people of the flesh, and other kinds of people, people who are more spiritual. All humans have spirits in them, but not all are in tuned with their spirit side. However, when people who are more spiritually inclined, they hear the words of the gospel, it speaks to their spirit, they discern that they are hearing something that is not from human wisdom.

Read scripture 13g carefully: This is what we speak, not in words taught us by humans wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to spiritual men.

There were Corinthians who were still worldlier than spiritual they were mere infants spiritually. The Spirit gives life to the spirit, as these men were still drinking milk and not solid food.

 

[DHK]

1 Corinthians 2:14 is about two different kinds of people, worldly people, people of the flesh, and other kinds of people, people who are more spiritual. All humans have spirits in them, but not all are in tuned with their spirit side. However, when people who are more spiritually inclined, they hear the words of the gospel, it speaks to their spirit, they discern that they are hearing something that is not from human wisdom.

Read scripture 13g carefully: This is what we speak, not in words taught us by humans wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to spiritual men.

There were Corinthians who were still worldlier than spiritual they were mere infants spiritually. The Spirit gives life to the spirit, as these men were still drinking milk and not solid food.

1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
--Paul said we have received the Spirit which is of God.
We know the things that are freely given to us of God.
We teach the things the Holy Ghost teaches, comparing spiritual thing with spiritual.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
--The natural man is the unsaved man.
He receives not the things of the Spirit of God.
Spiritual things are foolishness to him.
He cannot know about spiritual things.
They (unsaved men) are spiritually discerned (judged).

There is a great chasm between the saved and the unsaved. The saved can, by the Spirit, understand the things of God (the Word of God), but the unsaved man cannot.
For that reason the Ethiopian Eunuch had to have someone come and help him.
For that reason God has sent out missionaries in accordance with the Great Commission.

 

[Moriah]

As I keep saying James is writing to Christians. A Christians faith is evidenced by his works. That is all he is saying. I have never changed my view. The book is not about salvation.

You said there were no unbelievers in the churches in the New Testament. I gave you scripture that proved you and your beliefs wrong.

Read what ridiculousness of your beliefs lead to, if a person says they believe, but they are not yet saved, but you do not know that they are not yet saved, would you not tell them to study and start obeying? I guess you would be blaspheming at that time according to your beliefs. lol

First, that has nothing to do with our conversation for tongues have ceased.
Secondly, the church at Corinth was the most carnal church that Paul wrote to. Some of the even denied the resurrection of Christ (ch. 15). Is that what your church is like? Our church is not patterned after the church at Corinth: divisions, carnality, gross immorality, suing one another, marital problems as divorce, problems of ethics, idolatry, keeping the Lord's Table properly, proper order in the church, issues concerning love for one another and cliques, and doctrinal error to a denial of the resurrection. Well you have quite a church there Moriah!

Are you going to admit your error when you told me that churches in the New Testament were in no comparison to the churches now, that no unbelievers were in those churches LOL You know you made a mistake and are trying to hide it.

Believers are told to search for him. "I will seek thee early in the morning."
The unsaved cannot seek God. They will not seek God.

Those seeking God do not displease God when they search for Him. To say what you say is just plain nonsense. God says to seek Him, if they are already saved, then they would have God and not still be seeking.

I gave you Scripture.
The Ethiopian could not understand what he was reading until Philip came and helped him.
Paul said quite clearly:

The Ethiopian was searching for God. The Ethiopian was not hiding from God like a robber from the police, as you keep saying. Ha ha ha

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
--I believe what the Bible says; what do you believe?

Paul is explaining why God is allowing the Gentiles to be saved. Paul is explaining that even the righteous do not never sin. Paul is explaining about the Jews who belonged to God, when the time came no one looked for God, but then later they did when they asked God if He had forgotten them. The New Testament tells us of people searching for God, there were people waiting for the Messiah.

That is not true. An unsaved person cannot obey God unless he firsts trust Christ as his Savior. Only then will he have the power to obey God.

Explain how they can trust Jesus if they cannot understand anything anyway, as you say they cannot.

Most of it. I have given you some examples already.
What does this have to do with salvation:

Isaiah 3:18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon,
19 The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,
20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings,
21 The rings, and nose jewels,
22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins,
23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the vails.

--Beware. Perhaps the Lord will take away your muffler!

You said those scripture were not about salvation, well you are wrong. All of the Bible is about salvation.

That is true. It is Jesus that saves, and it is he who keeps one saved. I have nothing to do with it. Salvation is all of the Lord. What can I do to merit salvation? Nothing. Jesus paid it all; all to him I owe. Sin has left a crimson stain. He washed it white as snow.

I feel for all the people you taught.

The thief on the cross didn't do any works. He never had a chance. He was still saved.

The thief on the cross feared God, God’s salvation is near those who fear Him. The thief on the cross did do works. The thief on the cross believed Jesus, that is the work of God. The thief on the cross humbled himself. God pleads with people to humble themselves. The thief admitted his sins, this is confession; he also admitted he deserved his punishment; that is regret for his sin. The thief also called on the name of the Lord, when he told Jesus to remember him when he got to his kingdom.
You are wrong; the thief did what God said to do.

Works don't save, and works don't keep a person saved. It is Christ that saves, and it is Christ that keeps a person saved. There is nothing confusing about that Biblical message.

You are wrong what you teach. Tell us, why do you think God chooses to save whom He does?

 

[Moriah]

1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
--Paul said we have received the Spirit which is of God.
We know the things that are freely given to us of God.
We teach the things the Holy Ghost teaches, comparing spiritual thing with spiritual.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
--The natural man is the unsaved man.
He receives not the things of the Spirit of God.
Spiritual things are foolishness to him.
He cannot know about spiritual things.
They (unsaved men) are spiritually discerned (judged).

There is a great chasm between the saved and the unsaved. The saved can, by the Spirit, understand the things of God (the Word of God), but the unsaved man cannot.
For that reason the Ethiopian Eunuch had to have someone come and help him.
For that reason God has sent out missionaries in accordance with the Great Commission.

You should be careful for what you say in your arguments. You get many things wrong about the scriptures.

 

[Moriah]

Jesus did not teach that; you have misunderstood him. Faith is not a work.

What did the snake say to Eve? The snake said, "Did God really say,”

John 6:23 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

DHK, Jesus really did say the work of God is to believe in the one he has sent.

BTW, are you angry? Posting with all CAPS means one is angry.

What a worldly comment that you made, and it shows no sign of being able to make a righteous judgment, but a judgment on appearances and worldly knowledge tainted with dislike.

I capitalize letters to draw attention to what I am saying.

Not through works.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
--He is renewed in his spirit and in his mind. That is accomplished through the Word of God.

Ha ha ha A person is renewed by getting the word of God and doing them, by conforming to God’s Word, and not to the ways of the world. We are renewed and transformed by our new way of thinking that we learned from the scriptures.

You are not God, and do not know the Eunuch's heart. It is not told. He was a religious man, a Jew, returning from Jerusalem, reading Isaiah. We are not told why. Religious people do religious things.

The man was searching for God. He was not hiding from God as you say.

From the same scripture he preached unto him Jesus.
He used the OT to preach Jesus.

Philip used the New Testament, from what he learned personally from Jesus. Philip knew how to lead him to Jesus because Jesus taught Philip. Jesus is revealed to us in the NEW TESTAMENT.

 

[DHK]

You should be careful for what you say in your arguments. You get many things wrong about the scriptures.

Just because you disagree doesn't mean I am wrong.
Demonstrate where, in my exposition of 1Cor.2:12-14, I am wrong.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1878057&postcount=177

 

[DHK]

You said there were no unbelievers in the churches in the New Testament. I gave you scripture that proved you and your beliefs wrong.

By definition, there are no unbelievers in any of the local churches.
For example, one can pick almost any letter and look at who it is addressed to:
Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
1. To the saints in Philippi. By definition a church is composed of Baptized believers (saints in Christ). Therefore there are no unbelievers in the churches.
2. John says:
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
--Those present that may have been unbelievers leave. They were not "of us." They don't remain.

Read what ridiculousness of your beliefs lead to, if a person says they believe, but they are not yet saved, but you do not know that they are not yet saved, would you not tell them to study and start obeying? I guess you would be blaspheming at that time according to your beliefs. lol

Why don't you actually answer my post instead of making things up?
Here is what I said:

As I keep saying James is writing to Christians. A Christians faith is evidenced by his works. That is all he is saying. I have never changed my view. The book is not about salvation.

I was speaking of the Book of James. What rabbit trail have you gotten off on? I have no idea what you are talking about.

Are you going to admit your error when you told me that churches in the New Testament were in no comparison to the churches now, that no unbelievers were in those churches LOL You know you made a mistake and are trying to hide it.

The unsaved were ultimately judged. A church is made up of believers. Are you admitting to me you belong in a "church" of unbelievers? I wouldn't call it a church if I were you.

Those seeking God do not displease God when they search for Him. To say what you say is just plain nonsense. God says to seek Him, if they are already saved, then they would have God and not still be seeking.

David said: "Early in the morning I seek thee." He said it more than once. You think David was a fool and spoke nonsense. Is that your attitude to all of the Word of God??
However Paul said of the unsaved: "there is none that seeks after God."
You don't believe him either.

The Ethiopian was searching for God. The Ethiopian was not hiding from God like a robber from the police, as you keep saying. Ha ha ha

You state things that are your opinion but you can't back it up.
He was reading the Scripture. The Bible doesn't say why. Unless you can back "why" up with Scripture keep your opinions to yourself. Nowhere does it say he was seeking God.
It doesn't say he was searching or hiding from God. It doesn't say he was doing anything but reading Isaiah. Why are you adding to the Word? There is a serious penalty for that given in Rev.22:17.

Paul is explaining why God is allowing the Gentiles to be saved.

No, in Romans chapter 3 he is demonstrating how the whole world, both Jew and Gentile are condemned by sin. All have sinned.

Paul is explaining that even the righteous do not never sin. Paul is explaining about the Jews who belonged to God, when the time came no one looked for God, but then later they did when they asked God if He had forgotten them. The New Testament tells us of people searching for God, there were people waiting for the Messiah.

Paul left off talking about the Jews in chapter two. All is all. He is speaking about both Jews and Gentiles here. For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There is NONE righteous no not one. There is NONE that understandeth. There is NONE good. There is NONE that seeketh after God. All of these statements speak of both Gentiles and Jews. All means All.

Explain how they can trust Jesus if they cannot understand anything anyway, as you say they cannot.

The Ethiopian had to have someone "show him". God uses men.
The Holy Spirit works through His Word.
Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

You said those scripture were not about salvation, well you are wrong. All of the Bible is about salvation.

OK, Here is what I want you to do. In your next post to me, I want you to explain to me what part: chains, bracelets, mufflers, bonnets, ornaments of the legs, nose jewels, mantles, wimples, and crisping pins (Isaiah 3:19-21), play in salvation? Please explain how these things save? Did you need crisping pins, mufflers and wimples for you to be saved? What part did they play in your salvation?
All of the Bible is about salvation. you say.

I feel for all the people you taught.

Do you? Here is what I said:

That is true. It is Jesus that saves, and it is he who keeps one saved. I have nothing to do with it. Salvation is all of the Lord. What can I do to merit salvation? Nothing. Jesus paid it all; all to him I owe. Sin has left a crimson stain. He washed it white as snow.

If that is not the message you preach, you preach a false gospel, one that is accursed. I feel sorry for you. You need to examine yourself. If it isn't Jesus that saves, then who is it? Are you a Buddhist? Who is it that saves??

The thief on the cross feared God, God’s salvation is near those who fear Him. The thief on the cross did do works. The thief on the cross believed Jesus, that is the work of God.

No it isn't. Faith is not a work.

The thief on the cross humbled himself. God pleads with people to humble themselves. The thief admitted his sins, this is confession; he also admitted he deserved his punishment; that is regret for his sin. The thief also called on the name of the Lord, when he told Jesus to remember him when he got to his kingdom.
You are wrong; the thief did what God said to do.

Like I said he did not works. Nothing you mentioned can be considered good works. You are deluded.

You are wrong what you teach. Tell us, why do you think God chooses to save whom He does?

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.