We have to obey Jesus!

[Moriah]

I didn't exactly say they were. God will chasten a disobedient believer and has many ways of doing so. But since that is not the question you are asking we can disregard that.

God allows testing in a believers life. The entire book of Job speaks about trials and testing as well as the first epistle of Peter, and the first part of the first chapter of James.
Testing teaches patience.

The Christian life was never meant to be easy. It is a life meant to be lived by faith, to mold character, to conform us to the image of Christ. That can only come through trials and testing.

You say a person does not even understand anything about God until he is saved. So then, why would God test us if as you say we were once saved always saved?


As for Biblicist, he needs to explain how God testing us fits into his nonsense doctrines, that God causes us to believe, but then tests us. Lol

 

[DHK]

You say a person does not even understand anything about God until he is saved. So then, why would God test us if as you say we were once saved always saved?

When a person trusts Christ is eternally secure in Christ. If he isn't then Christ is lying.
As for testing, read the book of Job. God allowed Satan to test Job. What happened in the end. Job was more prosperous in the end then he was in the beginning.


1 Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

 

[Moriah]

When a person trusts Christ is eternally secure in Christ. If he isn't then Christ is lying.
As for testing, read the book of Job. God allowed Satan to test Job. What happened in the end. Job was more prosperous in the end then he was in the beginning.


1 Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

You have NOT explained why God tests us. I know why God tests us, but I want to hear your explanation with your beliefs. Please do not just say to read Job. You need to explain why God tests us if we only have to believe. YOU said we only have to believe, and that we only obey because of love for God. So then, why does God test us?

 

[DHK]

You have NOT explained why God tests us. I know why God tests us, but I want to hear your explanation with your beliefs. Please do not just say to read Job. You need to explain why God tests us if we only have to believe. YOU said we only have to believe, and that we only obey because of love for God. So then, why does God test us?

Testing and believing are two different subjects, so I don't know what you are getting at. Salvation is by faith alone. God doesn't test one in order to be saved. God gives each the opportunity to be saved--to trust him as Savior. That has nothing to do with testing.

 

[Moriah]

Testing and believing are two different subjects, so I don't know what you are getting at. Salvation is by faith alone. God doesn't test one in order to be saved. God gives each the opportunity to be saved--to trust him as Savior. That has nothing to do with testing.

What is your explanation why God tests us?

 

[DHK]

What is your explanation why God tests us?

The word "test" in the Bible can often be translated "trials."
In the KJV it is sometimes translated "tempts."

First, one must not lay any false allegation against God.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

God allows testing.
James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
--Testing brings patience.

1 Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
--Testing tries our faith and brings honor to Christ.

 

[Moriah]

The word "test" in the Bible can often be translated "trials."
In the KJV it is sometimes translated "tempts."

First, one must not lay any false allegation against God.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

God allows testing.
James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
--Testing brings patience.

1 Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
--Testing tries our faith and brings honor to Christ.

God does NOT tempt us.

The Bible says God tests us.

 

[DHK]

God does NOT tempt us.

The Bible says God tests us.

Yes I agree with that. I wasn't being argumentative. I was simply pointing out that sometimes these Old English words are used interchangeably, and one must let the context define the meaning.

For example:
1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
--Here "temptation" does mean testing or trial.
and "tempted" means "tried."
God will not allow us to be tempted ("tried" or "tested") above what we are able. But he will allow us to be tested (tempted). The words here are used interchangeably.

 

[Yeshua1]

You are the one who needs to be told to believe the Word of God!
The only time “faith alone” is spoken of, is when James tells us what kind of faith NOT to have! That it is dead, useless.

As per the Bible, its faith in jesus that saves!

We are to know and understand BEFORE we are saved that we are to obey Him! DHK and you say we know and understand NOTHING about God’s Word.
We are to have a heart that God chooses to save! The Bible tells us.

the ONLY thing that one needs to know in order to be saved by grace of God is that he is a sinner who cannot save Himself by good works, and places faith/trust/hope unto the One who can save him, jesus!

Stop saying things I do not say. Just like you say things the Bible does not say when you keep saying “faith alone.”

DHK says that even if we never obey after being saved, that we will remain saved! That is what DHK says. The Bible says that is a deceived person and a liar.

that is what james is really saying! IF a person says jesus is His Saviour, yet there has been NO evidence that suppprts that fact, THAT kind of faith saves no one!

For the saved person mUST have something changed int heir lives, could be wanting to read bible/pray, go to church etc, there will some SO<ME fruit evisenced of a genuine conversation!

They do NOT save us, but are proofs have been saved!

Do Not confuse justification and becoming more as jesus! catholics state that one must co operate with the Grace of God well enough to actual merit being saved by him, need to heed the bible that jesus paid it all, and by faith we get Him and get it all!

 

[Moriah]

Do Not confuse justification and becoming more as jesus! catholics state that one must co operate with the Grace of God well enough to actual merit being saved by him, need to heed the bible that jesus paid it all, and by faith we get Him and get it all!

I am not confusing anything. Jesus does not even save us unless he who knows our hearts accepts us. There are things we can do to be the person that Jesus chooses. After he accepts us, and we receive the Holy Spirit, we must do things, we must obey Jesus, that is how we are being transformed into the likeness of Christ. A person could fall, drawback, and fail.

Exodus 32:32-33 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Psalm 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Isaiah 1:2 Hear, O heavens! Listen, O earth! For the LORD has spoken: "I reared children and brought them up, but they have rebelled against me.

Isaiah 30:9 These are rebellious people, deceitful children, children unwilling to listen to the LORD's instruction.

In Matthew 22:14 we see that there will be many that are invited; they come; but they are thrown out.

Matthew 22:14 "For many are invited, but few are chosen." See the parable about the Wedding Banquet.

In addition, see 2 Peter 1:10. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall,

Matthew 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4. Here Paul tells us we could fall from grace.

We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away.
Hebrews 2:1. Here Paul tells us how to not drift away.

Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Hebrews 10:38. Here Jesus talks about not to draw back.

Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; Hebrews 12:15. Here Paul warns that one can cause trouble and cause many to be defiled.

My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you, Galatians 4:19. The Galatians needed Paul to go through again what he had already done with them before, and that is to form Christ in them again.

Read 2 Peter 2:18, wicked men can even mouth empty, boastful words, and, by appealings to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they can even entice people who are just escaping living in error.

Hebrews 10:30, 31 For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[DHK]

I am not confusing anything. Jesus does not even save us unless he who knows our hearts accepts us.

The verses you quote are mostly irrelevant. They are chosen from here and there, OT and NT, no matter what the context is.

What is significant is the above statement. Jesus does not not even save us unless he knows our hearts..."
This implies that there is a time when he doesn't know our hearts, and is not omniscient. Therefore God is not God. He is stripped of his omniscient. The God that you have described is not very knowledgeable if he doesn't know the hearts of men. Perhaps Satan knows more than God in your view.

But thankfully the Scriptures give us a better, a Biblical view of God apart from yours.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
--Man's heart is deceitful. Who can know it? God knows the heart.

Jeremiah 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
--God searches the heart. He searches the heart of every man.

God knows every thought of every man whether saved or unsaved.

 

[Yeshua1]

The verses you quote are mostly irrelevant. They are chosen from here and there, OT and NT, no matter what the context is.

What is significant is the above statement. Jesus does not not even save us unless he knows our hearts..."
This implies that there is a time when he doesn't know our hearts, and is not omniscient. Therefore God is not God. He is stripped of his omniscient. The God that you have described is not very knowledgeable if he doesn't know the hearts of men. Perhaps Satan knows more than God in your view.

But thankfully the Scriptures give us a better, a Biblical view of God apart from yours.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
--Man's heart is deceitful. Who can know it? God knows the heart.

Jeremiah 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
--God searches the heart. He searches the heart of every man.

God knows every thought of every man whether saved or unsaved.

this whole discussion remonds me of peter saying to the bethren that why would the jews insist that gentiles be under the Law, for if jews could not keep the law, how could gentiles be expected to do it?

 

[Moriah]

The verses you quote are mostly irrelevant. They are chosen from here and there, OT and NT, no matter what the context is.
Therefore God is not God. He is stripped of his omniscient. The God that you have described is not very knowledgeable if he doesn't know the hearts of men. Perhaps Satan knows more than God in your view.

The verses I quote are NOT irrelevant.
You really need to reread and consider more carefully what I wrote, and then come back and apologize.

What is significant is the above statement. Jesus does not not even save us unless he knows our hearts..."
This implies that there is a time when he doesn't know our hearts, and is not omniscient.

Just because you think that, it does not make it so. I said Jesus does not even save us unless HE WHO KNOWS OUR HEARTS accepts us.
Read again to see that you misunderstand.

 

[DHK]

The verses I quote are NOT irrelevant.
You really need to reread and consider more carefully what I wrote, and then come back and apologize.

I have learned Moriah.
First, I glanced over the references and quickly read the verses.
Second, I recognized that my responses would be the same as all the others:
--out of context; written to the Jews, written to Christians (not needing salvation, non sequitor (nothing to do with the subject), etc.
In fact there is not one verse that you posted that clearly has anything to do with what is needed or required for salvation; not even one. So there is no reason for me to go through them and answer each one.

Besides that, I can't get you to answer one question, and you want me to answer all of those verses!!!!!

Try this. A Yes or no, will do.
"Do you believe that "salvation is by faith alone, in Christ alone by grace alone."
Yes, or No?

Just because you think that, it does not make it so. I said Jesus does not even save us unless HE WHO KNOWS OUR HEARTS accepts us.
Read again to see that you misunderstand.

That means Jesus does not know some hearts.
What a weak and anemic God you serve--one that doesn't know all things; all hearts. That is shameful Moriah.

 

[Moriah]

I have learned Moriah.
First, I glanced over the references and quickly read the verses.
Second, I recognized that my responses would be the same as all the others:
--out of context; written to the Jews, written to Christians (not needing salvation, non sequitor (nothing to do with the subject), etc.
In fact there is not one verse that you posted that clearly has anything to do with what is needed or required for salvation; not even one. So there is no reason for me to go through them and answer each one.

Besides that, I can't get you to answer one question, and you want me to answer all of those verses!!!!!

Try this. A Yes or no, will do.
"Do you believe that "salvation is by faith alone, in Christ alone by grace alone."
Yes, or No?

That means Jesus does not know some hearts.
What a weak and anemic God you serve--one that doesn't know all things; all hearts. That is shameful Moriah.

I have no idea what scriptures you are talking about that you think I have explained wrong.
In addition, it does not matter that some scriptures were written to the Jews. All scripture is God-breathed and useful for correcting and rebuking.
If you do not quote the scriptures and explanations I gave, then do not just come on and say I am wrong.
You have already proven that you misunderstood what I said here, and then you do not even acknowledge you made a mistake.

 

[Moriah]

That means Jesus does not know some hearts.

You did not read correctly. Jesus knows everyone’s heart. Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to those he accepts.

Stop repeating your false accusations about what I said.

What a weak and anemic God you serve--one that doesn't know all things; all hearts. That is shameful Moriah.

You are blaspheming against God when you say that. I believe in the Only One True God.

 

[DHK]

I have no idea what scriptures you are talking about that you think I have explained wrong.
In addition, it does not matter that some scriptures were written to the Jews. All scripture is God-breathed and useful for correcting and rebuking.
If you do not quote the scriptures and explanations I gave, then do not just come on and say I am wrong.
You have already proven that you misunderstood what I said here, and then you do not even acknowledge you made a mistake.

I have made no mistake. You take Scripture out of context.
There is not one verse there that relates to how a person can find salvation.

You have made foolish statements in the past.
One of them is this: "All of the Bible is about salvation."
I challenged you on that, and continue to do so.
You still haven't answered me. Show me how "crisping pins and mufflers," as well as "ornaments of the leg" have had a part in your salvation? You won't give me an answer because you can't and you know you are wrong. The passage in Isaiah 3 has nothing to do with salvation.

The Scripture may be, and is, God-breathed, but that doesn't mean it has to do with one's salvation. Neither do the Scriptures that you have previously posted.

Salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone by grace alone.
You continue to ignore that on every thread it is posted on.
It bothers you a lot doesn't it?

 

[DHK]

You did not read correctly. Jesus knows everyone’s heart. Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to those he accepts.

Stop repeating your false accusations about what I said.



You are blaspheming against God when you say that. I believe in the Only One True God.

When you say that God doesn't know the hearts of all men, then what kind of God is he. He certainly isn't omniscient is he? He is not the omniscient God of the Bible who knows the hearts of ALL men.