Reason for Obama Victory is Mirrored Here

[carpro]

Yep. For all the people calling Obama a "socialist", he pretty much governs from the center, not unlike his Republican and Democratic predecessors.

You're delusional.

 

[saturneptune]

Yep. For all the people calling Obama a "socialist", he pretty much governs from the center, not unlike his Republican and Democratic predecessors.

I agree with that pretty much, except that Obama is further left than the other three. But you are right, they are all in that establishment corridor. You and C4K probably disagree with me, but I think the last President to make a move outside the Bush/Clinton mindset was Reagan. Since 1988, the Republican Party has had a slow drift to the left and lousier candidates each year.

My difference with you is about Romney. I believe he is all we have to defeat Obama, and that is as far as it goes with me. There is a chance Romney has changed his mind about abortion, gay rights, gun control, and government run health care. There is no chance Obama will change his mind. Also, despite what anyone thinks of Bain or other companies Romney has owned, he has created jobs and met a payroll.

I detest the denomination Romney belongs to, because of how they define Jesus Christ. I am fully aware of all of his flaws when I vote for him.

The only other President in my lifetime that I would say thought independently was Truman. Eisenhower appeared to be an establishment type, but he had a really good farwell speech about the military industrial complex. Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter were all typical centerists.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I agree with that pretty much, except that Obama is further left than the other three. But you are right, they are all in that establishment corridor. You and C4K probably disagree with me, but I think the last President to make a move outside the Bush/Clinton mindset was Reagan. Since 1988, the Republican Party has had a slow drift to the left and lousier candidates each year.

My difference with you is about Romney. I believe he is all we have to defeat Obama, and that is as far as it goes with me. There is a chance Romney has changed his mind about abortion, gay rights, gun control, and government run health care. There is no chance Obama will change his mind. Also, despite what anyone thinks of Bain or other companies Romney has owned, he has created jobs and met a payroll.

I detest the denomination Romney belongs to, because of how they define Jesus Christ. I am fully aware of all of his flaws when I vote for him.

The only other President in my lifetime that I would say thought independently was Truman. Eisenhower appeared to be an establishment type, but he had a really good farwell speech about the military industrial complex. Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter were all typical centerists.

I agree with about 99% of this post. The only exception being that I could not possibly vote for Governor Romney.

 

[blackbird]

It seems that business owners are sitting on their hands (and their cash) in protest of Obama. They don't want to help him out by hiring people, and there is no need to hire people anyway because there isn't a lot of demand for products and/or services.

Here in Alabama just recently---the aircraft manufacturing company AIRBUS signed an agreement to place an assembly plant in Mobile---to assemble aircraft----reports say that when fully functional it will employ over 1000 people

I have encouraged my daughter and son to go to college and concentrate on engineering or math or some other concentration of that sort---and to attempt to be part of that 1000

Next comment I have is this----of the 1000 employed by AIRBUS eventually-----what percentage of those will be US citizens---and which will be illegal--not having one iota of a clue as to what a "Green Card" is or where to obtain one---and the autorities won't do "diddilie" about it????

 

[carpro]

I agree with about 99% of this post. The only exception being that I could not possibly vote for Governor Romney.

Then you help re-elect Obama.

Might as well just go ahead and vote for him.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Then you help re-elect Obama.

Might as well just go ahead and vote for him.

I totally reject this scare tactic bully philosophy of voting. It is why the GOP has stopped offering reasonable choices for the presidency. The GOP could run Satan incarnate and he would still garner votes because he was not a Democrat.

'He's not Obama' is not qualification enough for me.

 

[carpro]

I totally reject this scare tactic bully philosophy of voting.

You have to make up some reason for helping Obama get re-elected. I understand that.

Salving your conscience doesn't change the facts. Might as well quit being dishonest with yourself, and us, and just step up to the plate and vote for him.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

You have to make up some reason for helping Obama get re-elected. I understand that.

Salving your conscience doesn't change the facts. Might as well quit being dishonest with yourself, and us, and just step up to the plate and vote for him.

Of course, when reason fails attack the motives and character of another poster. Not the best debate tactic my friend.

When President Obama is re-elected, which is inevitable due to the weakness of his opponent, it will be convenient to have someone to blame instead of working to change the terribly broken American two party system.

I look where the philosophy of supporting the GOP no matter who they run has the country today -and its not a pretty sight and voting for Governor Romney is only going to encourage more of the same.

When I walk my dog sometimes I have to hold my nose to clean up after him - I won't apply that principle to the precious gift of my franchise.

 

[carpro]

Of course, when reason fails attack the motives and character of another poster. Not the best debate tactic my friend.

I look where the philosophy of supporting the GOP no matter who they run has the country today -and its not a pretty sight and voting for Governor Romney is only going to encourage more of the same.

I have long wondered why you are so critical of the Republican Party. I don't recall whan you were ever critical of the democrat party. Curious...

You offer few solutions other than to urge Republicans, to act more like...well... democrats.

Are you just a contrarian or a closet liberal? You demand perfection from Republicans, but the status quo for democrats seems to be OK.

I really think you should just go ahead and vote for Obama.

Republicans, and most likely no one else, is ever going to offer a candidate perfect enough to make you vote FOR them, so you're happy helping democrats by default.

Curious.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

This debate is not about my personal views. To continue in that vein would be drag the thread off topic. I will say this, if you have never seen me criticise the president or his party you either read with a biased eye, or have not read all my posts. I don't think I have ever voted for a Democrat in any election since I started voting in 1976.

Personalising the issues is a common tactic here and one of the reasons I have generally stayed out the debate this year.

Is it truly impossible to have differing views without attacks, innuendoes, and questioning of motives?

If you disagree with me, that's fine - but could we stop with the attacks and debate like reasonable brothers in Christ?

There are at least two trains of thought here:

1) The only goal of this election is to defeat President Obama. Therefore, we must 'hold our noses' and vote for whoever the GOP decides to send.

2) The system is broken. The only way to start to fix it is to stop doing whatever the GOP tells us to do and vote according to our true dictates of conscience.

Both are reasonable, mature, well thought out views. Both are done with the individual's love of country in mind. No one here wants to see America lose her place in the world. It would be lovely to debate the merits of each point of view instead of trying to shout down those who disagree with our own point of view.

 

[carpro]

This debate is not about my personal views.

Of course it is. And mine. And anyone elses that posts here.

So, one question:

Who would be your perfect Republican candidate? Who is the person that you would vote FOR instead of just helping democrats by default?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Of course it. And mine. And anyone elses that posts here.

So, one question:

Who would be your perfect Republican candidate? Who is the person that you would vote FOR instead of just helping democrats by default?

You create a false dilemma with the second half of your question - but I will answer you anyway. I contend that I am helping the GOP by doing my bit to force them to truly give us a conservative choice.

There are several Republicans I could have voted for this year, even though I don't like everything about them. Mike Huckabee would have been my choice I think. I could have voted for Bobby Jindal from what I have seen. I haven't studied Michael Rubio thoroughly, but I like what I know about him. Chris Christy seems a bit on the fringe, but I am pretty sure I could have voted for him. Even Rick Santorum, despite of some of his what I consider extremists views, would probably have gotten my vote.

 

[blackbird]

Of course it is. And mine. And anyone elses that posts here.

So, one question:

Who would be your perfect Republican candidate? Who is the person that you would vote FOR instead of just helping democrats by default?

Chris Christy

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

The GOP really had a chance this year to defeat a deservedly unpopular president. However, they stuck to their guns and gave us a centrist liberal, only dime's width right of his opponent. They had Santorum in just the right place to do something, but failed.

I contend that the reason for an Obama victory is the GOP's failure to present a real choice - not the conscience of voters who can't vote for that choice.

 

[carpro]

You create a false dilemma with the second half of your question - but I will answer you anyway. I contend that I am helping the GOP by doing my bit to force them to truly give us a conservative choice.

There are several Republicans I could have voted for this year, even though I don't like everything about them. Mike Huckabee would have been my choice I think. I could have voted for Bobby Jindal from what I have seen. I haven't studied Michael Rubio thoroughly, but I like what I know about him. Chris Christy seems a bit on the fringe, but I am pretty sure I could have voted for him. Even Rick Santorum, despite of some of his what I consider extremists views, would probably have gotten my vote.

So since you didn't get who you want, you're happy with helping the opposition?

BTW Roger, you have a real tendency to see personal attacks where there aren't any. Get over it. Politically, we don't seem to be that much different. My horse is just not as high as yours.

I consider Obama to be evil personified and I won't do anything to help him. Staying away from the polls is not an option for me. Voting for a fringe candidate and robbing the only person that has a chance to defeat Obama of my vote is simply not an option.

If that makes you more highly principled than me, so be it.

 

[freeatlast]

Since the first of the primary season and before, there has been an obvious rift on this board and nation wide splitting Constitutional conservatives and the establishment, liberal Republican Party. It was seen in the primaries in the choice of a Republican nominee, and quite heavily debated on this board. Personally, I have gone from despising Romney to voting for him with great regret.

The debate still goes on, and I can fully understand the sentiments. It is a total impossible situation to justify either way. Romney's belief about Christ, plus his record on abortion, gun control, and gay rights while governor of MA is horrible.

The factor that changed my mind is the disorganization and disinterest of the third parties in really winning. Another factor is the fact that this is a secular office, so it comes down to his record in MA. I look at it this way. There is a chance Romney has changed his attitude on aboriton, gay rights and gun control. There is no chance Obama will change his mind. Also, Romney could do no worse on the economy. It comes down to this is all we have.

The question is, do you think the rift on the right will win out in Obama's favor, or do you think the horrible unemployment numbers will win out in Romney's favor?

I pray I am wrong, but I am inclined to believe that President Obama will be re-elected. I believe that there has been a fundamental shift in the nation in the last 50 years, because of the church, that makes the populace more susceptible to Marxism and socialism. So I don't feel that unemployment numbers will have any real swaying influence on the election because I am of the mind set this is a spiritual issue.

 

[hillclimber1]

I totally reject this scare tactic bully philosophy of voting. It is why the GOP has stopped offering reasonable choices for the presidency. The GOP could run Satan incarnate and he would still garner votes because he was not a Democrat.

'He's not Obama' is not qualification enough for me.

He's not BO, is all I have this time.. It is enough.. We cannot continue the horrible onslaught BO has inflicted on our national values.. He seems determined, (whether intentionally or by ignorance, you decide) to destroy our country in every possible way.

No matter how you look at it; your non-vote supports BO's candidacy.. Every time we vote, we select the lessor of two evils..

 

[freeatlast]

No matter how you look at it; your non-vote supports BO's candidacy.. Every time we vote, we select the lessor of two evils..

I disagree with that. This is the mindset of today and is why we have compromise both in our politics and churches and both are in serious trouble. If two evils were put to a vote in a church meeting I would not pick the one which I felt was less evil. Someone refraining from the vote is a message that both are evil, not that they support one over the other. To accuse someone of helping in evil when they refrain because of nothing but evil is evil in itself. The degree of that evil is, is not the issue, but will we compromise and support evil is. So for those whose convictions are that both candidates are evil and want to stand by their convictions not to vote I think it is evil to admonish them.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I move that republicans don't really care about anything, except having republicans elected.

They have lost the ability to think beyond a four year block.

I would vote for a republican if a real one were elected.

Any attempted guilt trip over that is silly.

If yer goal is to oust Obama, and put in someone just like him, count me out. I'll gladly accept any name-calling I get, and lump it in with the insults I've received from the likes of crabtownboy, and Magnetic Poles.

 

[InTheLight]

I believe that there has been a fundamental shift in the nation in the last 50 years, because of the church, that makes the populace more susceptible to Marxism and socialism.

Seriously? Could you explain......oh, nevermind.