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Featured The Parenthesis Church

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Jul 24, 2012.

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  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I have pointed out something that dispensationalists don't want to admit is a part of their doctrine. Well it is and you must live with it even if you will not defend it.


    You are using the same tactic as HOSS!
     
    #41 OldRegular, Jul 24, 2012
  2. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    You have not yet established the the "parenthesis Church" is a part of dispensationalism. Establish that and maybe we would take your argument seriously.

    If I were to say:

    The Calvinistic theology of God not exhaustively knowing and decreeing the future is heresy and you need to quit affirming this heresy!

    how would you react?
     
    #42 InTheLight, Jul 24, 2012
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Old regular is correct, ITL.
    the parenthesis has always been part of the dispensational system. He did not make it up.That is the classic teaching that has been disproven.

    http://creationconcept.wordpress.com/2012/03/19/h-a-ironsides-great-parenthesis-theory/

    The most basic disagreement between dispensationalism and Reformed theology centers around the relationship between the New Testament church and Old Testament Israel. According to dispensationalism, the church age is a parenthesis in the Jewish kingdom program prophesied in the Old Testament. The New Testament church at Pentecost, they teach, was an absolutely new entity, a mystery to which no Old Testament prophecy had directly referred. They teach that all the Jewish kingdom prophecies referred to a Jewish millennial kingdom that was postponed until after the unexpected church age because of the Jewish rejection of Jesus. Of course, Reformed theology disagrees with this teaching.

     
    #43 Iconoclast, Jul 24, 2012
  4. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    The key sentence from the article you linked to:

    ...they claim that the church of the present age was unknown to the prophets. They called the present age of the church a great parenthesis.


    OK, the claim by H.A. Ironsides (I'm not familiar with him) that the church was an unknown to the OT prophets is worth exploring. Also, stating the church was an unknown to the OT prophets is quite different from OldRegular's contention, "Jesus Christ came to establish the Messianic kingdom for the Jews, that they rejected Him, and that He established the Church instead" and "God found it necessary to interrupt His program for the Jews because their leaders rejected Jesus Christ as the Messiah and He was unable to establish the Messianic kingdom."

    So where is the Church mentioned in the Old Testament? The article attempts to show this by Jerusalem being raised up. I see no reference to the Church in Isa. 2:2 and Zech 14:10-11 as the article claims.
     
    #44 InTheLight, Jul 24, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2012
  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    It is not a strawman argument, it is a fact. You may not agree with that teaching of the top dogs in the dispensational movement but that is your problem. I believe that most dispensationalists only know of the 70th week, the pre-trib rapture, the GrreAAt 7 year tribulation, and Israel is still top Dog. That does not change what Chafer, Pentecost, Walvoord, and Ryrie teach.

    I agree!

    Is it guilt by association or your guilty conscience?

    Then get their books and read them!

    Look! InTheLight, I have been on this board for a number of years. Continual insults from dispensationalists to those who don't believe their stuff is the norm! Now I bring up a bedrock doctrine of Dispensationalists that you don't like and you and others get your tail in a twist. Well unwind!

    I am not making anything up.



    I agree, the Church was not. Jesus Christ did not die for a parenthesis!

    Matthew 13:13, 14
    13. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
    14. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

    I am not speaking in parables, I am stating a fact and you don't like it!



    I wish no one did but it is now in its 4th edition. It has warped the thinking of many people. I would say the same about that monstrosity by Dake!
     
    #45 OldRegular, Jul 24, 2012
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Let's see if we can tell by your posts:

     
    #46 Iconoclast, Jul 24, 2012
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    ITL, Some of us are a bit older and sat under this teaching for years...so it is no strawman we are posting about. OLD REGULAR has been right on with his posts.
    i was not fully entering into this discussion except to validate what he was posting. I am an ex dispy myself. i :wavey::wavey:can still teach it, although i do not believe it is close to the biblical truth.
     
    #47 Iconoclast, Jul 24, 2012
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Have you read any books by dispensationalists Chafer, Ryrie, Walvoord. You might look first at the following:

    Herman Hoyt writing in The Millennium, Four Viewpoints, by Clouse, pages 84-88.

    There is a big difference between saying the Church for which Jesus Christ died is just an interruption in God's plan for Israel and saying
     
    #48 OldRegular, Jul 24, 2012
  9. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Thanks much Icon.:love2: I believe that some of the dispensationalists have their tail in a twist. I understand that many, if not most, dispensationalists are not aware of the dispensational doctrine regarding the Church. Even the ones who are knowledgeable do not want to discuss it!:tonofbricks:
     
    #49 OldRegular, Jul 24, 2012
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    OR---
    What is funny is they see the error of it also.ITL does not accept the radical nature of dispy doctrine.I still have those books on my shelf.:wavey:
    To their credit.....they had many good and correct teaching...and they looked for the Lord's return:thumbs: The blessed hope:thumbs:
     
    #50 Iconoclast, Jul 24, 2012
  11. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Then you need to present it as what they teach and stop trying to broad brush everyone else as if you can read everyone's mind.
     
    #51 mandym, Jul 24, 2012
  12. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    #52 mandym, Jul 24, 2012
  13. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Puh-leeze....


    You started this thread. Why not flesh it out and actually defend it yourself.

    Stop misrepresenting dispensationalism. Show me one dispy writer that states, "because the Jews rejected Christ God started the Church instead".
     
    #53 InTheLight, Jul 24, 2012
  14. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Instead of directing me to read some esoteric treatise why don't you just lay it out yourself? Or can't you make a cogent argument?
     
    #54 InTheLight, Jul 24, 2012
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    InTheLight
    H.A. Ironsides was a well respected commentator.

    So where is the Church mentioned in the Old Testament? The article attempts to show this by Jerusalem being raised up. I see no reference to the Church in Isa. 2:2 and Zech 14:10-11 as the article claims.

    ITL.....non dispy thought sees Zion and Jerusalem Ot promises to speak of the Heavenly Zion and Jerusalem......

     
    #55 Iconoclast, Jul 24, 2012
  16. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Sounds like non-dispys spiritualize Jerusalem into the Church when it suits their purposes.
     
    #56 InTheLight, Jul 24, 2012
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    ITL,

    Take a look at it,before you are critical.take a concordance....look up the verses that speak of zion and jerusalem.....you might be surprised at what you find.
     
    #57 Iconoclast, Jul 24, 2012
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    #58 Iconoclast, Jul 24, 2012
  19. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    #59 mandym, Jul 24, 2012
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I don't need to defend myself. It is dispensationalism that needs defending. You read Icon's post and know what I posted is true.

    If you don't know what dispensationalism is then you need to cut the strings. There are some, called progressive dispensationalists, who are moving away from the classic dispensational view of the Church. You might check them out. Actually you should already know about them.

    What I have posted is correct. You have a computer and are on the internet; you search.
     
    #60 OldRegular, Jul 24, 2012
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