Do not make up answers as if I said them!
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The Baptism debate
- Thread starter The Biblicist
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Do not make up answers as if I said them!
Boy! Anyone with two eyes in their head and two cents of common sense and who has followed your posts can clearly see what you have repeatedly said over and over and over and over again that you are that "blind pharisee" who believes lost people have good hearts and can do good works and therefore your salvation begins with good works.
By the way this is your normal response INSTEAD OF DEALING WITH THE BIBLICAL EVIDENCE WITHIN THE POST that exposes and condemns your unbiblical view
This is Moriah's modus operandi! When Scriptures are presented to show the absolute foolishness of his false gospel HE NEVER RESPONDS DIRECTLY TO THE SCRIPTURES but changes the subject to something personal or a simple denial or a simple assertion that he is right and everyone else is wrong.
HE CANNOT DEAL DIRECTLY WITH THE SCRIPTURES and REASONS based on those Scriptures but EVERY SINGLE TIME avoids directly dealing with the Scriptures and arguments based upon those scriptures - just watch his responses! In short he simply acts if he is inspired by God and to oppose him is to oppose God and to oppose his nonsensical assertions is to oppose scripture.
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Be honest enough to deal DIRECTLY with the scriptures I presented and why my arguments based upon those scriptures do not rightly represent what those scriptures are teaching!!
Everyone on this forum has read your posts sufficiently to understand you clearly believe that WORKS are the first agenda toward salvation just like the blind Pharisee who believes what they DO precedes what they ARE within! Your salvation approach is that of this "blind Pharisee" who emphasized works first and the internal condition second! Admit it because you have repeatedly made that clear!
These are things the Jews HAD TO DO JUST TO BELONG TO GOD, JUST TO BE CALLED A CHILD OF GOD, JUST TO BE GOD’S PEOPLE. These are things the Jews had to do JUST TO WORSHIP GOD.
There were many rules and regulations for humans to do!
The priest had to perform all the steps just as God instructed.
The people had to perform all the steps just as God instructed.
PEOPLE HAD TO DO THE WORKS. THROUGH JESUS WE NO LONGER HAVE TO DO THESE WORKS.
They had Burnt Offering. Grain Offering. Fellowship Offering. Sin Offering. Guilt Offering. Dietary rules for eating and drinking. Purification after childbirith. Regulations about cleansings. Day of Atonement, Various laws. Rules for priests. Unacceptable sacrifices. First fruits. Feast of Weeks. Feast of Trumpets. Feast of Tabernacles. Oil and Bread set before the LORD. The Sabbath Year. The year of Jubilee. The Sabbath Day. Circumcision. The Passover...
WE DO NOT HAVE TO DO THOSE WORKS, OR ANY WORKS FOR JESUS’ BLOOD SAVES US BY FAITH IN HIS BLOOD. THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE DO NOT HAVE T
BEY.
GOD NAILED THOSE RULES AND REGULATIONS TO THE CROSS. GOD DID NOT NAIL OBEYING TO THE CROSS. GOD DID NOT NAIL REPENTING TO THE CROSS.
Believe and repent!
There were many rules and regulations for humans to do!
The priest had to perform all the steps just as God instructed.
The people had to perform all the steps just as God instructed.
PEOPLE HAD TO DO THE WORKS. THROUGH JESUS WE NO LONGER HAVE TO DO THESE WORKS.
They had Burnt Offering. Grain Offering. Fellowship Offering. Sin Offering. Guilt Offering. Dietary rules for eating and drinking. Purification after childbirith. Regulations about cleansings. Day of Atonement, Various laws. Rules for priests. Unacceptable sacrifices. First fruits. Feast of Weeks. Feast of Trumpets. Feast of Tabernacles. Oil and Bread set before the LORD. The Sabbath Year. The year of Jubilee. The Sabbath Day. Circumcision. The Passover...
WE DO NOT HAVE TO DO THOSE WORKS, OR ANY WORKS FOR JESUS’ BLOOD SAVES US BY FAITH IN HIS BLOOD. THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE DO NOT HAVE T
BEY. GOD NAILED THOSE RULES AND REGULATIONS TO THE CROSS. GOD DID NOT NAIL OBEYING TO THE CROSS. GOD DID NOT NAIL REPENTING TO THE CROSS.
Believe and repent!
YOU are as the blind Pharisees, the Pharisees who did not repent and be baptized!
If a Jew kept all of those works and did not have faith, he would not go to heaven. He would be accursed.These are things the Jews HAD TO DO JUST TO BELONG TO GOD, JUST TO BE CALLED A CHILD OF GOD, JUST TO BE GOD’S PEOPLE. These are things the Jews had to do JUST TO WORSHIP GOD.
There were many rules and regulations for humans to do!
The priest had to perform all the steps just as God instructed.
The people had to perform all the steps just as God instructed.
PEOPLE HAD TO DO THE WORKS. THROUGH JESUS WE NO LONGER HAVE TO DO THESE WORKS.
They had Burnt Offering. Grain Offering. Fellowship Offering. Sin Offering. Guilt Offering. Dietary rules for eating and drinking. Purification after childbirith. Regulations about cleansings. Day of Atonement, Various laws. Rules for priests. Unacceptable sacrifices. First fruits. Feast of Weeks. Feast of Trumpets. Feast of Tabernacles. Oil and Bread set before the LORD. The Sabbath Year. The year of Jubilee. The Sabbath Day. Circumcision. The Passover...
WE DO NOT HAVE TO DO THOSE WORKS, OR ANY WORKS FOR JESUS’ BLOOD SAVES US BY FAITH IN HIS BLOOD. THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE DO NOT HAVE T
GOD NAILED THOSE RULES AND REGULATIONS TO THE CROSS. GOD DID NOT NAIL OBEYING TO THE CROSS. GOD DID NOT NAIL REPENTING TO THE CROSS.
Believe and repent!
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
You just don't get it! Christ is speaking about an ETERNAL UNCHANGABLE UNIVERSAL PRINCIPLE OF ORDER!
Salvation either BEGINS within (heart condition) or without (performance) - period!
Either cleansing begins INSIDE or it begins OUTSIDE!
It does not make one whit of difference if we are talking about a Jew or a Gentile as this PRINCIPLE cannot change simply because of a persons race or gender!!!
Your gospel is that of the "blind Pharisee" who THINKS that salvation BEGINS outside with performance.
Notice you did not say "obeying and believing" but "believing and obeying"! Why? Because they are not the same! Why? Because one is an INTERNAL CONDITION of mind and heart (beleiving) whereas "obeying" is the EXTERNAL performance.
No human being is born as a believer but all are born in unbelief! Hence, something must occur INTERNALLY first where their unbelief is changed to belief and that change of heart from unbelief in the gospel to belief in the gospel is called repentance and faith in the gospel which must PRECEDE external performance or works.
Are you saying I believe salvation BEGINS outside of the nature of man with his performance? You know that I do not believe that. You know you are the one that believes that so why intentionally misrepresent what YOU KNOW I believe????? That is called lying!
No, you don't even understand the verse do you. I will draw it out for you in a diagram.
First look at the verse again:
galatians 3:10 for as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: For it is written, cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
The bolded part is a quote from the OT.
Here is what it teaches. The OT commanded this:
Birth_____________________________________________Death.
From birth to death your life must be like that continuous line with no break in it. One break would indicate just one sin, one transgression of the law, that is all--perhaps one lie, one slip up in one of over 300 laws.
Like this:
Birth_____________________ _______________________Death.
If your life looked like that you would be condemned for all eternity in Hell. He that continues NOT in ALL things written in the law to do them is cursed. You are cursed if you break the law even once. You must continue in ALL things from birth to death. One sin and you are condemned. The fact is that no man can uphold the law; no man could keep the law--especially to that extent.
In reality all of your lives look like this:
Birth___........................................................................Death.
It is full of sin from the time we are born. We sin more than we care to admit. We break the law every day. We are cursed. But the Bible also gives the answer to that:
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
--It is not in works; it is in Christ and in Christ alone.
Regardless of what religion one considers. Regardless of when in time any religion is being considered. The salvation it teaches has only one of two possible options in the life of a person. Salvation either BEGINS inside or it begins OUTSIDE that person.
Jesus taught that God's salvation always, at all times MUST begin INSIDE a person and NEVER begin outside. This is taught in the Old and New Testaments EQUALLY. The law was "ADDED" to define sin and drive those who attempt an order of beginning FIRST externally to complete frustration as it is impossible to start EXTERNALLY because the problem of sin is INTERNAL and only manifested externally.
Even Moriah admits to this when he places first "believe" followed by "obey"! Believing is not an EXTERNAL act but an INTERNAL state of mind toward God and the Word of God which determines obedience or disobedience.
Moriah's gospel is follows the ORDER of salvation embraced by the "blind Pharisee."
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Excellent diagram. However, I wonder if Moriah will understand that the solid line represents a life without sin and the diagram with one small break in it represents a life that has violated the law and is under the condemnation of the law as much as the line full of gaps????
I would ask him this question; "Whether you agree or not with my diagram, do you understand what my diagrams are teaching in regard to that text?"
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It is you who does not get it.
This is more strange reformed teaching. It is a “performance" to believe and obey. What comes out of a man’s mouth is what is in his heart. We are to believe and confess. We are to believe and repent. We are to believe and obey.
You are denying that God choose a people of His own and they were the Israelites. You are denying that THEY had the Law of Moses, and that Gentiles and others were NOT included, that they were FAR OFF, without God and hope in the world.
What is in the heart comes out of the mouth!
You accuse me of things that are not true. Where have I ever said we must be baptized first? Where have I ever said any such external cleaning rules must apply first?
You are like the Pharisees. You teach do not repent! The Pharisees and teacher’s of the law were the only ones who would NOT REPENT! Do you not understand that? You and DHK teach as the Pharisees!
What comes out of the mouth is what is in the heart! We are to believe AND confess.
Why would I say obey first?! Whom are you confessing to if you do not believe first?
Read the next three scriptures, we are told to believe and REPENT.
Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Stop talking so mysteriously, just like the reformed group, THE MYSTERY WAS REVEALED. There is no secret! THE BIBLE TELLS US HOW THINGS ARE DONE AND WHY. The reformed group teaches all this mysteriousness, not knowing why God does what He does!
We get faith when we hear the message, when we are taught, convinced, and persuaded! We draw near to God because of what we hear, we like what we hear, we are drawn for because of the better hope in Christ Jesus.
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Stop being a brute talking accuser!
The Pharisees and teachers of the law were the only ones who did not repent and get baptized, that is what the Bible says!
YOU and others here say we do NOT have to repent to be saved. You do not even think we can believe or repent! God says believe and repent. You say no we cannot, not until you cause us to by giving us the Holy Spirit for regeneration. You teach God saves unbelievers. What nonsense.
If a person committed a sin, they had sin offerings and other works of the law!
The Jews were cut off if they did not do the works of the law.
You do not understand what Paul is explaining!
Paul is explaining that Jesus took the curse of the law for us! God nailed all those works of the law to the cross.
AGAIN, THE ISRAELITE HAD TO DO ALL THE WORKS OF THE LAW LIKE CIRCUMCISION, OBSERVANCE OF SPECIAL DAYS, DIETARY LAWS, AND SIN OFFERINGS, ETC. IF THEY DID NOT DO ALL THOSE THINGS, THEY WOULD BE CUT OFF. THAT IS THE CURSE! THE CURSE IS THAT THEY HAD TO DO ALL THE WORKS OF THE LAW LIKE SIN OFFERINGS...JUST TO BELONG TO GOD, OR THEY WOULD BE CUT OFF.
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The Israelites were not condemned if they sinned! They were accursed and condemned if they did not follow the works of the law like circumcision and sin offerings!!!!!!!!!!
God nailed those things to the cross! Jesus bore the curse for us! We do not have to do sin offerings anymore! We still have to obey! God did not nail obeying to the cross! God did not nail repenting to the cross!
1. That is why Jesus died for the penalty of our sin. No man can keep the works of the law. The law was there simply to show to the Israelites and to us that we are sinners. No one can keep the law.
2. Gal.3:10 was written to believers not to Jews. Why would Paul be explaining this to believers. Because believers could not keep the law, nor could they get to heaven by doing any kind of good works, whether it be by baptism, church attendance, prayer, etc. Those are all works by which no man can attain salvation.
3. Eph. 2:8,9 the truth really comes out--For by grace are ye saved through faith...not of works. This means not of any works: baptism, prayer, church attendance, etc. No amount of works can save. It is faith alone in Christ and his atoning work. To say that faith plus works or faith plus obedience is the same as saying that the sacrifice of Christ failed. His blood was insufficient. He didn't suffer enough. He didn't satisfy the demands of the Father.
This is what you are saying when you say that obedience is necessary for salvation.
It is you that does not understand salvation--faith alone in Christ alone by grace alone.
Do you believe the above statement. Yes or no?
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