how does the RCC officially View the papacy?

[Thinkingstuff]

Jesus died in my stead, paid for all my sins, past/present/future, ALL I can do is place faith in Him to save me, and he did!

So you didn't even repent? You didn't change your life to one of obedience to Christ? If you did these things you did them because of your faith. But if you did not do these then one must wonder if you have faith at all?

that comes AFTER saved by grace!

Yes it must come after! If it does not come at all then you must question salvation.

As a Chrsitian, will be serving the Lord out of love, and in the power of the Holy Spirit, IF I chose to do so!

I agree entirely with the first part of your statement but the bolded part. Ahhh now that is the problem! That is what the Catholic Church wanted to get away from. It is clear from your statement and a sad understanding of the teachings of Jesus that you believe whether or not you choose to obey Christ in love working through the Holy Spirit you are saved. It is clear the option not to obey is available to you that faith is only an intellectual assent to a truth but not a faith that leads to obedience. You clearly pointed out your position as long as you believe Jesus died for your sin you are free to sin willey nillley as often as you like because its your choice and your outcome assured. Fornicate? Sure! Adultery? Sure! Murder? Sure! Idolatry? Sure! Coveting? Sure! Its all permissable! Because you are saved you have a confidence that you will be saved because you believe Jesus died for your sins and now you don't have to do anything about your sins. You can freely choose to live in them and no requirement to abide in Christ! Its all a choice! Because you're saved!
That is what I have been preaching against and so has the Catholic Church.

is the Mass a propiation sacrifice re enacted before God or not? Council of trent said it is!

What does this have to do with the rest of the conversation? Its another topic all together. First tell me what do you think your question means. What do you think propiation sacrifice re-enacted means? Do you hold that it means the original Sacrifice that Christ offered for men at Calvary or do you think it means re-sacrificing the Lord at each mass?

 

[Yeshua1]

So you didn't even repent? You didn't change your life to one of obedience to Christ? If you did these things you did them because of your faith. But if you did not do these then one must wonder if you have faith at all?
Yes it must come after! If it does not come at all then you must question salvation.
I agree entirely with the first part of your statement but the bolded part. Ahhh now that is the problem! That is what the Catholic Church wanted to get away from. It is clear from your statement and a sad understanding of the teachings of Jesus that you believe whether or not you choose to obey Christ in love working through the Holy Spirit you are saved. It is clear the option not to obey is available to you that faith is only an intellectual assent to a truth but not a faith that leads to obedience. You clearly pointed out your position as long as you believe Jesus died for your sin you are free to sin willey nillley as often as you like because its your choice and your outcome assured. Fornicate? Sure! Adultery? Sure! Murder? Sure! Idolatry? Sure! Coveting? Sure! Its all permissable! Because you are saved you have a confidence that you will be saved because you believe Jesus died for your sins and now you don't have to do anything about your sins. You can freely choose to live in them and no requirement to abide in Christ! Its all a choice! Because you're saved!
That is what I have been preaching against and so has the Catholic Church.

What does this have to do with the rest of the conversation? Its another topic all together. First tell me what do you think your question means. What do you think propiation sacrifice re-enacted means? Do you hold that it means the original Sacrifice that Christ offered for men at Calvary or do you think it means re-sacrificing the Lord at each mass?

I repented of trying to ave myself, agreed with God that ONLY jesus could save me, and placed trust/faith into him to save me, and he did!

I can walk with the Lord in security, knowing that salvation is totally based His death at the Cross, so forever secured by god in him!

Now freed up to obey God, and for success, need to rely upon the Holy Spirit in me now...

I know that my behaviour cannot sseperate me from the love of God in christ, that i am forever sealed in him, that frees me up to rest upon him, andto really serve without worrying if I will "lose it" by not working hard enough/long enough..

How about you, do you have that security promised us in the Bible?

 

[Moriah]

reitterating a point that you haven't given support to doesn't make it true

Of course, I have given the written Word of God.

And it has been shown that by taking this verse literally you have gone against the word of God by calling your father, father.

Jesus really meant what he said! Why do you think I have gone against the word of God by calling by father ‘father’? My father is my father he is not my brother! Jesus is speaking about spiritual things. Jesus was speaking to his disciples; his disciples are brothers in the spiritual way. Are you claiming that when Jesus said the disciples were brothers that he meant by blood?
Catholics do not obey Jesus’ command not to call anyone ‘father.’ Catholics do not obey because they claim Jesus did not mean what he said that he was speaking in hyperbole.
I obey Jesus. I do not call my spiritual brothers ‘father.’

He also said cut off your arm to avoid sin. Yet you have not cut off your arms to avoid sin.

If you stop sinning with your eyes, why would you cut it out? If you stop sinning with your hands, why would you cut it off? We are to work out our salvation. I suggest you start getting rid of sin, because from the way you speak, you have not gotten rid of one sin, or you would not act as if it were not possible to stop.

Just because you bow doesn't mean you worship that object.

God says do not bow to the works of your hands. Do not bow means do not bow.

When you bow before the "alter of God" when you go up for prayer which usually you are kneeling before a podium are you worshiping the podium?

It is the practice of the Catholics to bow to the “Holy Images.” So please stop denying a Catholic practice.

Only in the sense that she prays for us.

The Catholics do NOT just ask Mary to pray for them. They go to Mary and ask Mary to ask Jesus for what it is they need; the Catholics believe that Jesus will not turn down a request given by his mother.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say we go through Mary to get to Jesus. It is Jesus we go through to go to the Father.
In addition, the Catholics pray to Mary for salvation. They also pray to Mary to help them with sin, etc. The Catholics pray to Mary about many things that we should only pray to Jesus for.

You are a mediator when you pray for someone else but mediation doesn't displace the singular role of Jesus Christ. When you ask someone to pray for your needs you are asking them to mediate for you.

NNE PRAYS TO ME. No one prays to me while asking me to go to Jesus for them.

Therefore by the same judgement you give the Catholic Church you are judged for going against God seeking a mediator apart from Jesus Christ.
As I've pointed out you've misapplied all these veres and if you hold to these interpretations you are guilty of the same offenses. Therefore its clear you don't really hold that view save to accuse the Catholic Church.
And by the same judgement you give the Catholic Church look to yourself and do like wise.

I got out of the Catholic Church because I did not want to share in their sins. I got out of the Catholic Church because I worship God in truth.

 

[Yeshua1]

Of course, I have given the written Word of God.


Jesus really meant what he said! Why do you think I have gone against the word of God by calling by father ‘father’? My father is my father he is not my brother! Jesus is speaking about spiritual things. Jesus was speaking to his disciples; his disciples are brothers in the spiritual way. Are you claiming that when Jesus said the disciples were brothers that he meant by blood?
Catholics do not obey Jesus’ command not to call anyone ‘father.’ Catholics do not obey because they claim Jesus did not mean what he said that he was speaking in hyperbole.
I obey Jesus. I do not call my spiritual brothers ‘father.’

If you stop sinning with your eyes, why would you cut it out? If you stop sinning with your hands, why would you cut it off? We are to work out our salvation. I suggest you start getting rid of sin, because from the way you speak, you have not gotten rid of one sin, or you would not act as if it were not possible to stop.

God says do not bow to the works of your hands. Do not bow means do not bow.

It is the practice of the Catholics to bow to the “Holy Images.” So please stop denying a Catholic practice.

The Catholics do NOT just ask Mary to pray for them. They go to Mary and ask Mary to ask Jesus for what it is they need; the Catholics believe that Jesus will not turn down a request given by his mother.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say we go through Mary to get to Jesus. It is Jesus we go through to go to the Father.
In addition, the Catholics pray to Mary for salvation. They also pray to Mary to help them with sin, etc. The Catholics pray to Mary about many things that we should only pray to Jesus for.

NNE PRAYS TO ME. No one prays to me while asking me to go to Jesus for them.

I got out of the Catholic Church because I did not want to share in their sins. I got out of the Catholic Church because I worship God in truth.

In the RCC, saints such as peter and John can hear our prayers and intercede for us before the throne of God...

mary co matrix/co redemptress, so the RCC elevates her literally to being the "Mother" of God, as being like 4th member of holy God now!

They pray to her to inercede on their behalf, to grant the absolution and grace...

the former pope credited mary for saving his life from being shot...

mary is a Goddess to them!

 

[Moriah]

In the RCC, saints such as peter and John can hear our prayers and intercede for us before the throne of God...

mary co matrix/co redemptress, so the RCC elevates her literally to being the "Mother" of God, as being like 4th member of holy God now!

They pray to her to inercede on their behalf, to grant the absolution and grace...

the former pope credited mary for saving his life from being shot...

mary is a Goddess to them!

It is a shame how Catholics pray to Mary. Jesus lives in our hearts! Why are they praying to Mary when the Spirit of God is inside us?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I repented of trying to ave myself, agreed with God that ONLY jesus could save me, and placed trust/faith into him to save me, and he did!

Good at least you got that right!

I can walk with the Lord in security, knowing that salvation is totally based His death at the Cross, so forever secured by god in him!

Which it seems frees you up to be able to choose to live in sin without guilt because you have assurance.

Now freed up to obey God, and for success, need to rely upon the Holy Spirit in me now...

According to you not only are you freed up to obey but to freely disobey and live in sin whatever your preference is because you are assured. There is, according to you,no requirement to obey God. What a faith! This is why Catholics cannot accept your teaching. The whole purpose is to save us so that we can participate in the divine life of Christ and experience his grace. Not so we can choose to obey or sin based on our preferance.

I know that my behaviour cannot sseperate me from the love of God in christ

God will always love all men even those in hell. Not that I'm suggesting you are going there but you theology has a bit of work. As does your interpretation of scripture. That verse encourages those who remain in Christ not those who do not remain.

How about you, do you have that security promised us in the Bible?

Absolutely!!!!! I know I have a reward in heaven that rust cannot touch while I remain in Christ through out my life.

 

[Moriah]

According to you not only are you freed up to obey but to freely disobey and live in sin whatever your preference is because you are assured. There is, according to you,no requirement to obey God. What a faith! This is why Catholics cannot accept your teaching. The whole purpose is to save us so that we can participate in the divine life of Christ and experience his grace. Not so we can choose to obey or sin based on our preferance.

I think you described his beliefs pretty well.

As for the Catholics believing we have to obey, we do, except the Catholics do not obey what God says, they go against what He says, they also add to the scriptures, thus nullifying God’s word.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I think you described his beliefs pretty well.

As for the Catholics believing we have to obey, we do, except the Catholics do not obey what God says, they go against what He says, they also add to the scriptures, thus nullifying God’s word.

Tsk Tsk. Always have to get in your anti catholic rhetoric. Catholics obey God you do not even do what you believe God is telling you to do. You said you haven't stopped sinning yet you have all your body parts. Follow your beliefs. Start hacking of limbs so you won't sin!!!!

Most bible scholars admit Jesus was speaking in hyperbolic fashion in regards to that verse.

 

[Moriah]

Tsk Tsk.

What is that supposed to mean?

Always have to get in your anti catholic rhetoric.

It is not anti Catholic rhetoric. I am teaching out of love for Jesus.

Catholics obey God you do not even do what you believe God is telling you to do.

Catholics do not obey. They go against God and His Word. You can change that fact about your life easily, if you wanted.

You said you haven't stopped sinning yet you have all your body parts. Follow your beliefs. Start hacking of limbs so you won't sin!!!!

I have stopped sins. My desire for sins has changed. I have not cut out my eye or my hand. Why do I have to cut off my limbs if I stopped sinning with them? You do not understand…

If I do not sin with my eyes and my hands, why should I cut off other body parts? LOLOL

Most bible scholars admit Jesus was speaking in hyperbolic fashion in regards to that verse.

Jesus was NOT speaking in hyperbole.
Hyperbole means not to mean what you say.
Jesus means what he says!

 

[DHK]

Simply by saying something doesn't make it true.

It is not me that just says so. It is a multitude of people who have left the RCC, and others who have studiously researched it. Its man-made doctrines are anti-God, anti-Scripture, and blaspheme the very name after whom we are called. We can list some of these doctrines and see how they go directly against fundamental teachings of the Bible.

Simply saying something doesn't make it true.

Already answered. See above.

Not so easy it would seem as often the word is abused by misinterpretation and applying pretext in order to attempt to refute the Catholic Church by the word of God

Man-made doctrines are always easily refuted by the Word of God.
Have you ever seen a Mormon defend the Book of Mormon when it is pointed out to him the verse that says that "Jesus was born in Jerusalem," and not in Bethlehem. He will defend it, justify it. The RCC does the same thing--justify blatant lies of unsaved men. Create a list. We will go through the man-made doctrines and see.

Which is it Faith or Faith alone?

Faith and faith alone. It is faith alone. If it has to be emphasized by putting the adjective "alone" with it, then so be it.

Are you saying that people who trust in Christ shed blood to pay for their sins and live a sanctified life aren't saved or have the Holy Spirit? It seems that is what you are saying. It seems that you are saying you must hold trust in Christ shed blood and by that faith alone you are given the Holy Spirit.

Salvation is a one-time act--like a wedding is in a marriage. I am not being married all of my life. The ceremony took place but one time. So it was when I became part of the bride of Christ. It was a one time event.

But the people who actually live out their faith in sanctity are not given the Holy Spirit because their sanctity requires action. So your doctrine therefore is trust God and avoid righteous activity to show you have faith alone. Hmmmm. Not a good position if you ask me.

Salvation is by faith alone. It is an act not a process. Furthermore, there is none good. Don't think that there are "good people" living out their lives. There are not. All the good people you know are sinners no matter how much "good" they do. Only God is good. Those who have not put their faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ and in him alone will not go to heaven, no matter how good they can live their lives. One does not get to heaven, and cannot get to heaven on merit. They can only get to heaven on the merit of Jesus, not their own.

If they are so well known point them out.

The evangelical doctrines that unite us are primarily those that revolve around soteriology.

Nope I'm saying whats your interpretative authority when its clear no one agrees about any doctrine?

The Bible interprets itself. It is our duty to search out the Bible as Christ commanded us.
Search the Scriptures he said. Why would you not want to obey the commands of Christ. To say no one agrees about any doctrine is the most absurd exaggeration I have ever heard, so much so it is a blatant lie.

Nope

By what you previously said it sounded like you denied the inspiration of the Word of God, otherwise why did you question it like you did?

It never did. Can you differentiate between and inspired text and an authoritative interpretation?

The entire Bible is inspired.
I believe my interpretation is authoritative. I put enough study and prayer into it that I believe I can faithfully proclaim it to my people from our pulpit. That is what I am commanded to do.

an all have shown to be in error.

RCC doctrines have been shown to be false many times. You just don't want to admit it. The assumption of Mary, for example, is just a myth, one made up in 1950 or at least accepted by the RCC at that year. It is just a fable and that is all.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

It is not me that just says so. It is a multitude of people who have left the RCC, and others who have studiously researched it.

Lets make something very clear. Very few people who left the RCC Actually left because of serious study. Most leave because of 1) poor understanding of their own faith to begin with 2) emotional reasons 3) and a sincere desire to serve God but haven't because of point # 1. Most people who leave the Catholic Church do so because they haven't seriously studied the faith. And there are a lot of Catholic Who were protestants who became Catholic because of serious study. Many of the Catholics who leave the faith weren't even good Catholics. They were secular in a lot of respects. A lot of protestants who become Catholic for 2 primary reasons. 1) serious study of the faith. Which is attested to by many people you can currently read. Tim Staples, Scott Hahn, Steven Ray, Francis Beckwith, and many more. And it isn' just recent either. and the other reason is 2) they married into the faith. This latter group I wonder about their faith.

 

[The Biblicist]

Lets make something very clear. Very few people who left the RCC Actually left because of serious study. Most leave because of 1) poor understanding of their own faith to begin with 2) emotional reasons 3) and a sincere desire to serve God but haven't because of point # 1. Most people who leave the Catholic Church do so because they haven't seriously studied the faith. And there are a lot of Catholic Who were protestants who became Catholic because of serious study. Many of the Catholics who leave the faith weren't even good Catholics. They were secular in a lot of respects. A lot of protestants who become Catholic for 2 primary reasons. 1) serious study of the faith. Which is attested to by many people you can currently read. Tim Staples, Scott Hahn, Steven Ray, Francis Beckwith, and many more. And it isn' just recent either. and the other reason is 2) they married into the faith. This latter group I wonder about their faith.

That is precisely why most people leave the Baptist faith - they simply do not grasp the truth. For example, you do not grasp the truth that there is no such thing as a justified man by faith without works who is not also a regenerated man whose profession of faith is evidenced by good works (Eph. 2:8-10) without confusing justification with regeneration.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

That is precisely why most people leave the Baptist faith - they simply do not grasp the truth. For example, you do not grasp the truth that there is no such thing as a justified man by faith without works who is not also a regenerated man whose profession of faith is evidenced by good works (Eph. 2:8-10) without confusing justification with regeneration.

Oh I understand it well. I just don't think you're inline with scriptures as I've pointed out many times. James doesn't see that distinction and niether does Paul if you take him into context. The only difference between you and I is in your above statement I mostly agree with it save two serious points. 1)What you don't say when you say faith is evidenced by good works. Accordingly because of that you also hold that Good works don't necissarily have to follow. Its up to the one who has faith whether to do good works or retain a sinful lifestyle. Because of their assurity of faith. and 2) regeneration is a process. we are made immediately alive that is regeneration however to be transformed that is a process. Therefore regeneration is also a process. And Justification isn't forensic. As you wanted it to be.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

What is that supposed to mean?

Its a sound you make with your tongue. Its the equivalent of one shaking their head side to side.

It is not anti Catholic rhetoric. I am teaching out of love for Jesus.

It is. Because its the same rhetoric always used against Catholics. You certainly love your version of Jesus. Do you love me? Do you love Catholic Apologists? Do you love Catholics who disagree with your interpretation of scripture? Or are you secretly praying that we go to hell just to find out you're right?

Catholics do not obey. They go against God and His Word. You can change that fact about your life easily, if you wanted

Nope I read scripture and I obey God. But thanks for the offer.

I have stopped sins.

You haven't as you have already admitted you still sin. You haven't eradicated sin from your life yet.

My desire for sins has changed.

Honestly, that is good and I congragulate you. Really, however, Jesus says to avoid sin to cut off that body part you sin with and doesn't say if you stop desiring to sin you're cool he said to stop sin not just stop desiring to sin.

I have not cut out my eye or my hand. Why do I have to cut off my limbs if I stopped sinning with them? You do not understand…

I do understand. You say you still sin. You say you take it literally that Jesus wants you to avoid sin by cutting off that part of the body which causes the sin or commits that sin to prevent future sin with that body part. either you don't take him literally or you don't follow what he said.

If I do not sin with my eyes and my hands, why should I cut off other body parts? LOLOL

But you still sin according to you. are you sayiing you no longer sin with your eyes or arms what about your brain? cut that out too.

Jesus was NOT speaking in hyperbole.

He absolutely does if you read most bible commentaries.

Hyperbole means not to mean what you say.
Jesus means what he says

I think you need to go back to the dictionary.

hy·per·bo·le (h-pûrb-l)
n.
A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton

Jesus means what he said in both cases but he used an extreme to make his point. Just as a book doesn't actually weigh a ton neither does Jesus think you should cut off your arm but makes the point not to allow for temptation to sin in your life.

 

[Yeshua1]

Lets make something very clear. Very few people who left the RCC Actually left because of serious study. Most leave because of 1) poor understanding of their own faith to begin with 2) emotional reasons 3) and a sincere desire to serve God but haven't because of point # 1. Most people who leave the Catholic Church do so because they haven't seriously studied the faith. And there are a lot of Catholic Who were protestants who became Catholic because of serious study. Many of the Catholics who leave the faith weren't even good Catholics. They were secular in a lot of respects. A lot of protestants who become Catholic for 2 primary reasons. 1) serious study of the faith. Which is attested to by many people you can currently read. Tim Staples, Scott Hahn, Steven Ray, Francis Beckwith, and many more. And it isn' just recent either. and the other reason is 2) they married into the faith. This latter group I wonder about their faith.

Would say the biggest reason people left the RCC was due to the Holy Spirit openning them up to be able to understand what the RCC teaches, as contrasted to the Bible! Chose to leave and go to a 'real church"...

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Would say the biggest reason people left the RCC was due to the Holy Spirit openning them up to be able to understand what the RCC teaches, as contrasted to the Bible! Chose to leave and go to a 'real church"...

Then you would be wrong.

 

[Yeshua1]

Good at least you got that right!


Which it seems frees you up to be able to choose to live in sin without guilt because you have assurance.

No, it frees me up to live now for the Lord as he wants us too, as one who is serving Him out of love and thanksgiving, not as one who "has to" but "wants to!"

Assurance allows me to trust that He will always love and accept me, and that drives me to serve Him harder!

According to you not only are you freed up to obey but to freely disobey and live in sin whatever your preference is because you are assured. There is, according to you,no requirement to obey God. What a faith! This is why Catholics cannot accept your teaching. The whole purpose is to save us so that we can participate in the divine life of Christ and experience his grace. Not so we can choose to obey or sin based on our preferance.

Apostle Paul saw this exactle same way I do, and the Judaizers and others saw it as the RCC does!

God will always love all men even those in hell. Not that I'm suggesting you are going there but you theology has a bit of work. As does your interpretation of scripture. That verse encourages those who remain in Christ not those who do not remain.

God loves all people as being His creation, but hs reserved FULL LOVE to only those only in Covenant relationship with him, Christians!

Those saved by grace of God have both new natures and the Holy Spirit in them, BOTH desire to obey and walk as we should, up to us to avail ourselves of Him to empower us to live as we should!

Absolutely!!!!! I know I have a reward in heaven that rust cannot touch while I remain in Christ through out my life.

What takes you out of jesus then, and causes you to lose your salvation?

 

[Moriah]

It is. Because its the same rhetoric always used against Catholics. You certainly love your version of Jesus. Do you love me? Do you love Catholic Apologists? Do you love Catholics who disagree with your interpretation of scripture? Or are you secretly praying that we go to hell just to find out you're right?

What kind of spirit do you have that speaks to people in such a way? My parents died while being members of the Romans Catholic Church. We were traditional Catholics, as was all my ancestors. Why would I want them all to go to hell? That is such an evil statement for you to make.

I do understand. You say you still sin. You say you take it literally that Jesus wants you to avoid sin by cutting off that part of the body which causes the sin or commits that sin to prevent future sin with that body part. either you don't take him literally or you don't follow what he said.
But you still sin according to you. are you sayiing you no longer sin with your eyes or arms what about your brain? cut that out too.

If you give up sins with your body parts, why would you cut them off? As long as we live, we have the chance to work out our salvation. If I am getting sin out of my life, and making progress, why in the world would I cut off a body part? Jesus is explaining the importance of stopping sins.

He absolutely does if you read most bible commentaries.
I think you need to go back to the dictionary.
hy•per•bo•le (h-pûrb-l)
n.
A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton

Jesus means what he said in both cases but he used an extreme to make his point. Just as a book doesn't actually weigh a ton neither does Jesus think you should cut off your arm but makes the point not to allow for temptation to sin in your life.

Jesus always means what he says! I explained what hyperbole means, then you came back on and said I was wrong, and then you give the same definition as I did. I notice people here do that…they say I am wrong, and then say the same thing I do, while still denying the truth.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

What kind of spirit do you have that speaks to people in such a way?

In what way? To ask you questions like do you love Catholics? How is that bad?

My parents died while being members of the Romans Catholic Church. We were traditional Catholics, as was all my ancestors.

Good. I pray that they are in heaven.

Why would I want them all to go to hell?

I don't if you do thats why I asked the question.

That is such an evil statement for you to make.

How? I've had many baptist tell me I'm hell bound. It seems a fair question.

If you give up sins with your body parts,

Which you said you haven't since you still sin.

why would you cut them off?

because you still sin.

As long as we live, we have the chance to work out our salvation.

That's not what Jesus said. He said if those parts of your body causes you to sin cut them off. He didn't say if you're still working on your salvation you can keep them.

If I am getting sin out of my life, and making progress, why in the world would I cut off a body part?

Because that part may cause you to sin.

Jesus is explaining the importance of stopping sins.

I agree he was. he was using Hyperbolic speach to do so.

Jesus always means what he says!

Yes he does he wants us to stop sinning. But that doesn't mean he wants us to cut off limbs.

I explained what hyperbole means, then you came back on and said I was wrong, and then you give the same definition as I did.

No I gave you a different deffinition and I will prove my point. You said

Hyperbole means not to mean what you say.

Jesus meant what he said in that he doesn't want us to sin My definition given to you states

A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton

Jesus meant sin was serious you need to take it serious steps to not do it but he exagerated. Instead of not exagerating. Let me give you and example. Jesus could have said "don't allow yourself to be tempted to sin and sin" He instead said "if your arm causes you to sin cut it off!" exageration. A figure of speach which exagerates a point he meant. or Hyperboly.

I notice people here do that…they say I am wrong, and then say the same thing I do, while still denying the truth.

Again I didn't say the same thing you said. Maybe thats your issue you're not being technical enough.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Would say the biggest reason people left the RCC was due to the Holy Spirit openning them up to be able to understand what the RCC teaches, as contrasted to the Bible! Chose to leave and go to a 'real church"...

Really...so what's your definition of a real church? :tongue3: