how does the RCC officially View the papacy?

[Moriah]

IMO, you are deceived.

The Bible says not to sin. I can hardly believe you claim I am deceived for repeating what the Bible says.

1. You cannot go through one day, if not even one hour without sinning.

Show me from the Bible that says that. I do not care about your personal beliefs, just the Bible.
Show me from the Bible that says, “You cannot go through one day, if not even on hour without sinning.”

2. You cannot keep the two great commandments that Christ gave us.

Jesus revealed himself to me because I obey him.

You sure sound like an accuser. Are you getting ready to accuse more?

Giving up many sins is not giving up sin completely.

I am working on it.

There is a big difference.

No, not a big difference, unless you have many sins to give up.

One is reformation; the other is a heresy known as entire sanctification.

I am detecting man made doctrine. Could you please show me scripture that says, “One is reformation, the other is a heresy known as entire sanctification?

The only time that will come true in a person's life is when they get out of this carnal body plagued with sin, and get to heaven.

I thought we were going to talk about scripture. Please show me scripture that says this, and not scripture that you think sounds like this.

Yes he does. That doesn't make it possible. It makes it a goal for every believer.

You speak contradictions. You called me deceived earlier for saying we are to stop sinning, then you say it is a goal for every believer.

The Bible also says for husbands to love their wives even as Christ also loved the church.
Are you married. Do you love your wife as much as Christ loved the church? Do you think any man can? It is a goal we can set for ourselves. Christ is our example. But my love can never match the love that Christ had for us, never! It is impossible.

Of course, it is possible. Jesus does not tell us things that we cannot do. Jesus’ teachings are easy and light.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Bible says not to sin. I can hardly believe you claim I am deceived for repeating what the Bible says.


Show me from the Bible that says that. I do not care about your personal beliefs, just the Bible.
Show me from the Bible that says, “You cannot go through one day, if not even on hour without sinning.”



Jesus revealed himself to me because I obey him.

You sure sound like an accuser. Are you getting ready to accuse more?


I am working on it.



No, not a big difference, unless you have many sins to give up.



I am detecting man made doctrine. Could you please show me scripture that says, “One is reformation, the other is a heresy known as entire sanctification?




I thought we were going to talk about scripture. Please show me scripture that says this, and not scripture that you think sounds like this.


You speak contradictions. You called me deceived earlier for saying we are to stop sinning, then you say it is a goal for every believer.




Of course, it is possible. Jesus does not tell us things that we cannot do. Jesus’ teachings are easy and light.

Jesus told us to never lust in your heart, and to never think evil of another chrsitian, have you fulfilled those 2 commands ?

 

[DHK]

The Bible says not to sin. I can hardly believe you claim I am deceived for repeating what the Bible says.

I tell my children to stop sinning but that doesn't mean they have the power to stop sinning. You don't have the power to stop sinning either. You have a sin nature. You are contradicting yourself again.
You have already admitted you are NOT sinless. Therefore you have NOT stopped sinning. Why are you contradicting yourself. Why do you say one thing one time and another thing another time. Is that not a lie? Whoops! You didn't stop sinning did you?
IMO, you are deceived.

Show me from the Bible that says that. I do not care about your personal beliefs, just the Bible.
Show me from the Bible that says, “You cannot go through one day, if not even on hour without sinning.”

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

See, you do believe in sinlessness. And yet you keep denying that you do.
Why did John include verse 9 write in between those two verses?

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

It is something we must do on a daily basis--confessing our sins.

Jesus revealed himself to me because I obey him.

You speak like a gnostic or a mystic; as if God reveals things to you that are just as inspired as the Word of God. That is heresy.

Besides that your answer has nothing to do with my statement.
I said: you cannot even keep the two great commandments that Jesus gave. None of us can. What does your answer have to do with that?

I am working on it.

There is no such thing as working at it.
You either can or you can't. The truth is you can't. You admit you are not sinless, so you may as well admit you can't give up sin completely. There is no such thing as working on it. You cannot reach entire sanctification in this life. You will never attain sinlessness in this life.

No, not a big difference, unless you have many sins to give up.

And so do you; so does everyone.

I am detecting man made doctrine. Could you please show me scripture that says, “One is reformation, the other is a heresy known as entire sanctification?
Look them up. Actually I am sure you know the meanings.
Do you believe in the trinity, the incarnation of Christ, the rapture, etc., all of which are terms not found in the Bible, but the teachings are. So do you believe in these "man-made" doctrines as you call them? Do you believe in the "man-made" doctrine of the trinity? If you don't you are a heretic. We ban all non-trinitarian people on this board.

I thought we were going to talk about scripture. Please show me scripture that says this, and not scripture that you think sounds like this.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

You will never be sinless until that carnal body of yours is redeemed and you will reach heaven.

You speak contradictions. You called me deceived earlier for saying we are to stop sinning, then you say it is a goal for every believer.

It is a goal. I gave you an illustration. I can tell my children to stop sinning. That doesn't mean they will. They don't have the power to stop sinning. Neither do you. You still have a sin nature. You will still sin. You are not sinless are you? If you admit you are not sinless then how can you say that you will stop sinning. You know that you will sin because you are not sinless. Stop contradicting yourself!

Of course, it is possible. Jesus does not tell us things that we cannot do. Jesus’ teachings are easy and light.

Is your love as great as Jesus love is? Yes or no?

 

[Moriah]

Jesus told us to never lust in your heart, and to never think evil of another chrsitian, have you fulfilled those 2 commands ?

I do not lust in my heart. If I find myself beginning to think evil of anyone, I catch it and submit to the Lord.

You can have this power to, to overcome, if you obey Jesus.

 

[Moriah]

I tell my children to stop sinning but that doesn't mean they have the power to stop sinning. You don't have the power to stop sinning either. You have a sin nature. You are contradicting yourself again.

I do have the power to stop sinning. I have the Holy Spirit.

You have already admitted you are NOT sinless. Therefore you have NOT stopped sinning.

I have stopped sins. My whole outlook on sin has changed. I see the world and sin as never before. I could not have been able to see sin and the world around me in the way that I do if I had not obeyed Jesus.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

See, you do believe in sinlessness. And yet you keep denying that you do.
Why did John include verse 9 write in between those two verses?

1 John 1 is about coming to Jesus and admitting you are a sinner. Something you have been fighting against me about, for when I say we must believe and repent. John tells us if we do not admit we are sinners, then we are not yet saved. However, you keep saying all we have to do is believe.

We also see in 1 John, that even if we do sin, that does NOT mean we are as one LIVING IN SIN. When we do stumble and sin, we confess to God through Jesus, and we can find forgiveness.

For you to teach the way you do, it shows no difference in your life after believing in Jesus than before. Do you think that might be telling?

You speak like a gnostic or a mystic; as if God reveals things to you that are just as inspired as the Word of God. That is heresy.

Jesus says, “Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

I am speaking the Word of God.

I speak the Word of God and you do not understand, but instead you try to call me Gnostic, mystic, and a heretic.

There is no such thing as working at it.

The Bible says to work out your salvation.

Do you believe in the trinity, the incarnation of Christ, the rapture, etc., all of which are terms not found in the Bible, but the teachings are.

I use the words found in the Bible. I know scripture; I do not use Catholic lingo or Pentecostal lingo. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are One. God came as a man in the flesh. When Jesus comes again, those who belong to Jesus will meet him in the air.

Is your love as great as Jesus love is? Yes or no?

I have Jesus living inside me.

 

[DHK]

I have Jesus living inside me.

You can't answer a simple question can you?

Is your love as great as Jesus love is? Yes or no?

 

[Moriah]

You can't answer a simple question can you?

Is your love as great as Jesus love is? Yes or no?

If Jesus lives in my heart, then of course, I can love as Jesus does.

 

[DHK]

If Jesus lives in my heart, then of course, I can love as Jesus does.

Then you are a greater man then Paul who said that "it is sin that dwells in me."
"The things that I do, I don't want to do; the things I don't want to do, those I do."

You are greater than the Apostle Paul.
He could not love as Jesus did. He plainly said that sin dwells in him.
Sin did not dwell in Jesus. You say you are NOT sinless, but yet you can love with the same degree of love that Jesus did. How is that possible if you are not sinless and Jesus was sinless?

 

[Moriah]

Then you are a greater man then Paul who said that "it is sin that dwells in me."
"The things that I do, I don't want to do; the things I don't want to do, those I do."

You are greater than the Apostle Paul.
He could not love as Jesus did. He plainly said that sin dwells in him.
Sin did not dwell in Jesus. You say you are NOT sinless, but yet you can love with the same degree of love that Jesus did. How is that possible if you are not sinless and Jesus was sinless?

That is beyond slander, to say the Apostle Paul was speaking of himself after Jesus saved him and gave him the Holy Spirit. For you to say after Paul was saved, he only did things he did not want to do.

 

[DHK]

That is beyond slander, to say the Apostle Paul was speaking of himself after Jesus saved him and gave him the Holy Spirit. For you to say after Paul was saved, he only did things he did not want to do.

Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

I don't believe your philosophies Moriah; I believe the Bible.

 

[Moriah]

Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

I don't believe your philosophies Moriah; I believe the Bible.

Paul beat his body to make it submissive to him, so he would not be disqualified for the prize.

Wisdom proves you wrong, for you to think Paul was not a workman approved by God, but rather a man who only did what he hated! Wisdom proves you wrong, for you to think Paul was not a workman approved by God, but rather unspiritual! That Paul was not a workman approved by God, but sold as a slave to sin!

You slander Apostle Paul. For you to say Paul was speaking of himself after he was saved is outrageous. You do not only accuse me of much falseness, but you accuse Apostle Paul!

 

[DHK]

Paul beat his body to make it submissive to him, so he would not be disqualified for the prize.

Wisdom proves you wrong, for you to think Paul was not a workman approved by God, but rather a man who only did what he hated! Wisdom proves you wrong, for you to think Paul was not a workman approved by God, but rather unspiritual! That Paul was not a workman approved by God, but sold as a slave to sin!

You slander Apostle Paul. For you to say Paul was speaking of himself after he was saved is outrageous. You do not only accuse me of much falseness, but you accuse Apostle Paul!

Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

That is Paul's testimony as he gives it in the book of Romans, chapter 7.
They are not my words; they are the inspired words of God. Why are you accusing me of so many things when this is Paul's own testimony. This is what he says about his own self.

What you don't get is this is Paul's testimony about his sin nature, that very sin nature that the believer, every believer contends with every day of their lives. But you deny that we have a sin nature. Paul doesn't. He recognizes that "sin dwells in us."

 

[Moriah]

Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

That is Paul's testimony as he gives it in the book of Romans, chapter 7.
They are not my words; they are the inspired words of God. Why are you accusing me of so many things when this is Paul's own testimony. This is what he says about his own self.

What you don't get is this is Paul's testimony about his sin nature, that very sin nature that the believer, every believer contends with every day of their lives. But you deny that we have a sin nature. Paul doesn't. He recognizes that "sin dwells in us."

Paul was speaking about himself before Jesus saved him.
You slander Paul. Wisdom proves you wrong. It is about Paul’s life before Jesus saved him.

 

[DHK]

Paul was speaking about himself before Jesus saved him.
You slander Paul. Wisdom proves you wrong. It is about Paul’s life before Jesus saved him.

What wisdom? Yours Moriah? I would not trust that wisdom.
But I do trust the Word of God.

This is Paul's testimony AFTER he got saved. It deals with his sin nature, the struggle with sin that every believer has. Go to the end of the chapter and see how the chapter is concluded. No unsaved man would say the things Paul says:

He cries out in this struggle that takes place within him saying:

"O wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"

And then the answer comes:
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
--There is the answer to all those struggles that he has with his sin nature. With the mind he serves the law of God; with the flesh the law of sin.

However, every one still gives into the flesh.
But Paul continues this discussion into chapter 8 where he explains how one can have victory over the flesh.
Nevertheless, we do not live without struggles against the sin nature which are so vividly described in chapter seven.

 

[Moriah]

What wisdom? Yours Moriah? I would not trust that wisdom.

Common sense wisdom proves you wrong.

But I do trust the Word of God.

What do you trust? You do not even believe Paul was a workman approved by God, but that he remained a practicing worst of all sinners.

This is Paul's testimony AFTER he got saved.

Paul is saved and was speaking of when he was not saved.

It deals with his sin nature, the struggle with sin that every believer has. Go to the end of the chapter and see how the chapter is concluded. No unsaved man would say the things Paul says:

He cries out in this struggle that takes place within him saying:

"O wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"

And then the answer comes:

You missed the answer. Here is the answer.

Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Paul says he is saved through Jesus Christ our Lord. Paul is no longer that wretched man who only does what he hates!

 

[DHK]

You missed the answer. Here is the answer.

Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Paul says he is saved through Jesus Christ our Lord. Paul is no longer that wretched man who only does what he hates!

That is what I quoted isn't it? I didn't miss a thing.
But that doesn't erase the rest of the chapter that precedes that verse. He didn't write that chapter for the good of his health, but for the good of your health
He writes as a believer, demonstrating how he has a sin nature, as we all do, a daily struggle with sin, that can only be overcome with the help of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Moriah]

That is what I quoted isn't it? I didn't miss a thing.
But that doesn't erase the rest of the chapter that precedes that verse. He didn't write that chapter for the good of his health, but for the good of your health
He writes as a believer, demonstrating how he has a sin nature, as we all do, a daily struggle with sin, that can only be overcome with the help of the Holy Spirit.

He does NOT only do what he hates, as you claim he does.
He is NOT unspiritual, as you say he is.
He is not still practicing the things that made him the worst of sinners, as you say he does.

 

[DHK]

He does NOT only do what he hates, as you claim he does.
He is NOT unspiritual, as you say he is.
He is not still practicing the things that made him the worst of sinners, as you say he does.

Do you deny the Bible?
Paul himself said: "I am the chief of sinners." Are you calling him a liar?
Paul testified: "Sin dwells in me." Are you calling him a liar?
Do you not believe his testimony?

 

[Moriah]

Do you deny the Bible?
Paul himself said: "I am the chief of sinners." Are you calling him a liar?
Paul testified: "Sin dwells in me." Are you calling him a liar?
Do you not believe his testimony?

That is slander, for you to teach that Paul is still practicing the same sins that made him the chief of sinners.

 

[DHK]

That is slander, for you to teach that Paul is still practicing the same sins that made him the chief of sinners.

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
It doesn't say that. It simply says that Christ came into the world to save sinners of whom I am chief. It doesn't say why.

What you don't get Moriah, is that the closer one walks to the Lord, the more sinful he sees himself. Paul had a very close walk with the Lord, and therefore saw himself as a very sinful man.

Peter had the same type of relationship.
Look what he said to Jesus, as he beheld his miracles:
Luke 5:8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.