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Featured World vs. Elect

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by mandym, Aug 3, 2012.

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  1. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    In the above verses it is clear that Jesus is speaking of those who are already born again.

    The above verses shows Jesus is speaking of people who are not yet born again.

    So why the difference in the two words? If Jesus in the second set of verses is speaking of the elect why did He not use that word like He did in the previous verses?

    It is clear to me that the use of the word "world" contextually means Jesus is speaking of more than just the "elect".


    Please withhold rude and accusing remarks in this thread.
     
    #1 mandym, Aug 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2012
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Joh_6:33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."

    Did Christ give life to the whole world? Does everyone in the world have eternal life?
     
    #2 Amy.G, Aug 3, 2012
  3. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    This verse presents as much a problem for cals as it does for non cals. But that does not answer the question in the op.
     
    #3 mandym, Aug 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2012
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Well the answer is obvious.......And that would be Chaotic right..... everyone gets a pass to Heaven & nobody go's to Hell. Why did God make hell then & I guess Lucifer is SOL
     
    #4 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 3, 2012
  5. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    I agree with you. Because of what He did in removing the sin of the world every person has enough light to get saved.
     
    #5 freeatlast, Aug 3, 2012
  6. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    OK I had hoped for a reasonable discussion rather than rude remarks. But apparently some cals are not able to be civil.

    I asked that you not do this. Apparently you cannot reasonably answer the op. Sarcasm is all you have left.
     
    #6 mandym, Aug 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2012
  7. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    He gives that life to the world, but not all eat.
     
    #7 freeatlast, Aug 3, 2012
  8. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Fal is the only one who has made an attempt to address the actual op.
     
    #8 mandym, Aug 3, 2012
  9. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    Looking at the John 3 passage. John 6 is a different context and will have to look at that separately.

    Now I'm on that say that "world" here is more than just the elect.

    Here's the passage
    “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
    (John 3:16-21 ESV)​

    Let's look at the verse 16


    “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.​

    It says that whever believes. Whoever out of what? the world. We are speaking of the believers here. The "whoever believes in him" are believers. These, the believers, are the ones that will be saved. It has always been that salvation is for believers only.

    "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him."​

    Christ purpose was to save. He wasn't here to condemn. Why? They are already condemned.

    "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. "​

    They are already condemned because they do not believe. And why don't they believe?

    "And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. "​

    Jesus is this light and they love their sin more than they love Christ. This is the problem with mankind.

    "For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”"​
     
    #9 jbh28, Aug 3, 2012
  10. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    I did not ask about "whosoever believes". I asked about "world".
     
    #10 mandym, Aug 3, 2012
  11. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    i gave that. I talked about the entire passage. I talked about what world means. Did you not read that?
     
    #11 jbh28, Aug 3, 2012
  12. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    The word "world" is a reference to the "world" not whosoever believes. You did not address that.
     
    #12 mandym, Aug 3, 2012
  13. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    You must have reading difficulties.

    Looking at the John 3 passage. John 6 is a different context and will have to look at that separately.

    Now I'm on that say that "world" here is more than just the elect.

    It says that whever believes. Whoever out of what? the world.
     
    #13 jbh28, Aug 3, 2012
  14. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    It does say that but that does not address the op. Why does Jesus use the word elect for the saved and world for the unsaved? World is not in the context of "whosoever". The whosoever is out of the world. Therefore world is a reference to the lost.
     
    #14 mandym, Aug 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2012
  15. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    Sorry, I was dealing with the meaning of the word "world" in the John 3 passage. The world" in John 3 passage would include both unsaved and saved.
     
    #15 jbh28, Aug 3, 2012
  16. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Ok lets include both. Jesus was talking about who He loves. IN John 3 he loves and died for both.
     
    #16 mandym, Aug 3, 2012
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Not Israel only.....the elect are world wide...

    And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

    52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
     
    #17 Iconoclast, Aug 3, 2012
  18. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    Where in John 3 does it say he died for the world?

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

    "For God so loved the world....

    let's assume that it means every person ever.

    "That he gave his only son"

    ok, so because of the love of God to the world, he gave his son. For what purpose?

    "that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

    Jesus died for believers. The death of Christ was never intended to be for unbelievers. So while I can agree that the term "world" means more than just the elect, it doesn't say his death was meant for unbelievers. (and by unbelievers I mean those that die as unbelievers)
     
    #18 jbh28, Aug 3, 2012
  19. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    John 1:29
    The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

    It does not say taketh away the sin of the elect.
     
    #19 freeatlast, Aug 3, 2012
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Where did he take the sin?
     
    #20 Iconoclast, Aug 3, 2012
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