Is Baptism the New Circumcision?

[Moriah]

Mormons make the same claim. Why should I believe you. You are a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Mormons are Mormons. That IS a denomination. Lol You are falsely accusing me.

I teach to believe and obey Jesus according to His written Word, and you call me a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

I am independent, as it suggests--independent from all other churches.
I am Fundamental--holding to the fundamentals of the faith.
I am Baptist--holding to the distinctives of the Baptists.
Since you are ignorant of these things you have no idea what I believe. There are hundreds of different Baptists.

Deny it all you want, but you have a denomination.

You have done one of two things here.
If you have done a search you would have found that the statements of faith of IFB churches vary greatly from church. Thus you would be posting a lie.
If you haven't done a search yet, then you are posting out of gross ignorance. Which do you plead guilty to?

I have read from IFB sites, and I have been debating you for almost 8 months now, and know that you have the same beliefs as them.

And which one do you associate with now? Or, are you the only one right in the world, and all the world is wrong.

Did you interview every single person in the whole world? Did you interview every single person in the whole world who ever lived?

So you are a Gnostic? Is this right?

No.

 

[DHK]

Mormons are Mormons. That IS a denomination. Lol You are falsely accusing me.

I am not falsely accusing you. Mormons say they are Christians, just like you. They will also say they are part of the body of Christ, just like you. Are you a Mormon in disguise. If you can't do better than a Mormon, and come out and give a denominational background or affiliation, and a church that you attend, why shouldn't I believe that you belong to a cult. Give me one good reason that you are not a wolf in sheep's clothing. After all you believe just like the rest of the world's false religions--that one must get to heaven through their works. But true Biblical Christianity teaches differently than that--that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone through grace alone? Is that the Christianity that you believe. That is what Biblical Christianity is all about.

I teach to believe and obey Jesus according to His written Word, and you call me a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

But like all the pagan religions of the world you emphasize a religion of works. You haven't convinced me of anything. You hide behind a nameless face; a nameless computer; a nameless denomination; a nameless church--if any at all. What reason do I have even to call you a Christian?

Deny it all you want, but you have a denomination.

Remain in your ignorance. Don't do your study. IFB churches are independent and by nature remain outside of denominations.

I have read from IFB sites, and I have been debating you for almost 8 months now, and know that you have the same beliefs as them.

Who is "them"? Name them? Which IFB churches do I have the same beliefs as? I would like to know. In my area there are five IFB churches. Each church's statement of faith is different; each church constitution is different. How can you say that we are all the same?

Did you interview every single person in the whole world? Did you interview every single person in the whole world who ever lived?

I don't have to; I only know that you keep asserting that you are right and everyone else is wrong. You are also not teachable. That is a characteristic of a cult. That is probably why you don't want to identify yourself. Thus the onus is on you to differentiate yourself from "everyone else in the world." That is not my problem, it is yours.

No.

You claim you get revelation directly from Jesus Christ, and not necessarily through the Word of God. That is Gnosticism. When we venture outside the Word of God and claim we have revelation of God it is gnosticism. You claimed to have personal revelation about me from God. That is not only Gnosticism it is demonism. God doesn't operate that way.

 

[The Biblicist]

Here is a confession of faith that Jesus says the majority ("many" as opposed to the "few" - Mt.7:13-14, 22) of professing Christians will make on judgement day thinking it is sufficient BASIS to be allowed into heaven:

Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Take note of the essential aspects of this confession.

1. They emphasize their claim of him as their "Lord."

2. They emphasize "works" done "in thy name"

3. Every work named is regarded as "good" by all denominations and nondenominations within Christianity.

However, Baptists would never make such a profession on judgement day as the very nature of this confession as a basis for acceptance and/or entrance into heaven is repudiated by Baptists vehemently.

The very constitutent elements of this profession demand that all who would say these things believes in justfication by faith plus good works. Baptists would NEVER make this kind of profession.

Would you make this kind of profession on judgement day as a basis for acceptance into the kingdom of God????

 

[The Biblicist]

Here is a confession of faith that Jesus says the majority ("many" as opposed to the "few" - Mt.7:13-14, 22) of professing Christians will make on judgement day thinking it is sufficient BASIS to be allowed into heaven:

Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Take note of the essential aspects of this confession.

1. They emphasize their claim of him as their "Lord."

2. They emphasize "works" done "in thy name"

3. Every work named is regarded as "good" by all denominations and nondenominations within Christianity.

However, Baptists would never make such a profession on judgement day as the very nature of this confession as a basis for acceptance and/or entrance into heaven is repudiated by Baptists vehemently.

The very constitutent elements of this profession demand that all who would say these things believes in justfication by faith plus good works. Baptists would NEVER make this kind of profession.

Would you make this kind of profession on judgement day as a basis for acceptance into the kingdom of God????

Moriah gave us his testimony and it fit the above profession exactly except those above placed a little more emphasis upon their faith in Christ whereas Moriah placed more emphasis upon himself and what he did and is doing to be accepted into God's kingdom.

 

[Moriah]

Here is a confession of faith that Jesus says the majority ("many" as opposed to the "few" - Mt.7:13-14, 22) of professing Christians will make on judgement day thinking it is sufficient BASIS to be allowed into heaven:

Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Take note of the essential aspects of this confession.

1. They emphasize their claim of him as their "Lord."

2. They emphasize "works" done "in thy name"

3. Every work named is regarded as "good" by all denominations and nondenominations within Christianity.

However, Baptists would never make such a profession on judgement day as the very nature of this confession as a basis for acceptance and/or entrance into heaven is repudiated by Baptists vehemently.

The very constitutent elements of this profession demand that all who would say these things believes in justfication by faith plus good works. Baptists would NEVER make this kind of profession.

Would you make this kind of profession on judgement day as a basis for acceptance into the kingdom of God????

Moriah gave us his testimony and it fit the above profession exactly except those above placed a little more emphasis upon their faith in Christ whereas Moriah placed more emphasis upon himself and what he did and is doing to be accepted into God's kingdom.

That scripture is about people who say they do things in the name of the Lord, but they do not obey Jesus.

That scripture Jesus says he never knew them and that they are evildoers.

This scripture is clear, in that, the people did not obey Jesus, they did not

give up sin.

We must believe and obey!

 

[Moriah]

I am not falsely accusing you. Mormons say they are Christians, just like you. They will also say they are part of the body of Christ, just like you. Are you a Mormon in disguise. If you can't do better than a Mormon, and come out and give a denominational background or affiliation, and a church that you attend, why shouldn't I believe that you belong to a cult. Give me one good reason that you are not a wolf in sheep's clothing. After all you believe just like the rest of the world's false religions--that one must get to heaven through their works. But true Biblical Christianity teaches differently than that--that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone through grace alone? Is that the Christianity that you believe. That is what Biblical Christianity is all about.

But like all the pagan religions of the world you emphasize a religion of works. You haven't convinced me of anything. You hide behind a nameless face; a nameless computer; a nameless denomination; a nameless church--if any at all. What reason do I have even to call you a Christian?

Remain in your ignorance. Don't do your study. IFB churches are independent and by nature remain outside of denominations.

Who is "them"? Name them? Which IFB churches do I have the same beliefs as? I would like to know. In my area there are five IFB churches. Each church's statement of faith is different; each church constitution is different. How can you say that we are all the same?

I don't have to; I only know that you keep asserting that you are right and everyone else is wrong. You are also not teachable. That is a characteristic of a cult. That is probably why you don't want to identify yourself. Thus the onus is on you to differentiate yourself from "everyone else in the world." That is not my problem, it is yours.

You claim you get revelation directly from Jesus Christ, and not necessarily through the Word of God. That is Gnosticism. When we venture outside the Word of God and claim we have revelation of God it is gnosticism. You claimed to have personal revelation about me from God. That is not only Gnosticism it is demonism. God doesn't operate that way.

You are not saved just because you joined a church.

You are not saved just because you heard a sound sounding denomination.

You are not saved just because your pastor, family member, or friend told

you just to believe and you would be saved.

Your pastor, family member, friend, or whomever spoke to you about Jesus

did not give you the Holy Spirit. Only Jesus gives the Holy Spirit, and you do

not get the Holy Spirit unless Jesus chooses to give it to you. Jesus gives

the Holy Spirit to those who obey.

You are not saved unless you are obeying the Word of God.

 

[DHK]

You are not saved just because you joined a church.

No, but you would be obedient to the Scriptures (Heb.10:24,25; Acts 2:41,47).
The two verses in Acts refer specifically to the church in Jerusalem. That was the only church, a local church, that existed at that time. If you are obedient to the Lord you will be a member of a local church.

You are not saved just because you heard a sound sounding denomination.

Local churches are usually associated with some sort of denomination. You even associate me with a denomination, even though I am not. But the name of my church or who I am associated with gives you an idea of what my beliefs are, doesn't it.

You are not saved just because your pastor, family member, or friend told you just to believe and you would be saved.

I never said that it did. My parents and family members are all Roman Catholic. They never had anything to do with my salvation. I was not saved by the influence of any pastor or church member. I got saved while visiting the campus of a university. God is not restricted to church, family or specific individuals as you say. I never disagreed with you. But he does command you to be a member of a local church.

Your pastor, family member, friend, or whomever spoke to you about Jesus did not give you the Holy Spirit. Only Jesus gives the Holy Spirit, and you do not get the Holy Spirit unless Jesus chooses to give it to you. Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey.

You are confused. The Holy Spirit indwells every believer at the very instant they believe. That is why the Bible commands us to be in a local church where we can be under the influence of pastors, evangelists, teachers, whom he has given to the church, that we might be built up in the faith.

You are not saved unless you are obeying the Word of God.

Then by your own words you are not saved saved, for you are not obeying the Word of God. If you are not a member of a local church you are not obeying the Word of God. You are living in a continued state of disobedience. What does the Bible say about believers who sin. A Christian cannot sin, which means he cannot continue in sin. But your life shows that you do. You rebel against the local church. It is a continued state of rebellion against God.

 

[The Biblicist]

That scripture is about people who say they do things in the name of the Lord, but they do not obey Jesus.

That scripture Jesus says he never knew them and that they are evildoers.

This scripture is clear, in that, the people did not obey Jesus, they did not

give up sin.

We must believe and obey!

Jesus never denied they did what they claimed. What he denied is that they measured up to the Father's will for entrance into heaven. That entrance requirement is spelled out right at the beginning of this sermon:

Mt. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The righteousness required by God to enter the kingdom of heaven must not merey EXCEED the best of relgious men but it must EQUAL the best of God Himself:


Mt. 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

How Perfect is the Father in heaven? He has never sinned in his past and is without sin presently and never will sin in the future. That is the standard of God's own righteousness and all others have "come short" of this glory of God and yet it is that standard which is the will of the Father to enter heaven.

That is why to fail in ONE point is to fail in ALL points of the Law because it only takes ONE SIN to be a sinner and thus come short of the glory of God.

You have already failed that standard! All religious people who believe and think as you do have already failed that standard and so the only kind of profession you can make on judgement day will be that profession - "Lord, Lord...in they name.......have we not done many wonderful works"

THAT IS THE ONLY KIND OF RIGHEOUSNESS YOU CAN POSSIBLE OFFER God on judgement day.

However, that is not good enough. Almost sinless is not good enough! Almost perfect is not good enough! The REVEALED WILL of the Father is that only the righteousness that EXCEEDS the very best that man can offer is not good enough. The only righteousness God will accept for entrance into heaven is SINLESS righteousness or "be ye therefore perfect EVEN AS your Father in heaven IS PERFECT.

Moriah where are you going to obtain that righteousness BEFORE judgment day? Your whole testimony is all about YOU and what YOU have done and are doing but YOU and YOUR WORKS are not good enough!

Jesus says your righteousness must EXCEED the best of religious men or it is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Jesus says your righteousness must EQUAL the best of God or it is NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

Where are YOU going to obtain that kind of righteousness BEFORE judgement day?

 

[Yeshua1]

That scripture is about people who say they do things in the name of the Lord, but they do not obey Jesus.

That scripture Jesus says he never knew them and that they are evildoers.

This scripture is clear, in that, the people did not obey Jesus, they did not

give up sin.

We must believe and obey!

have YOU given up all your sin in order to come to jesus and be saved?

I have not yet attained that state of 'sinless perfection", so the great news is that the Gospel of moriah is a wrong one, and BOTH can get saved by the right one!

 

[Moriah]

No, but you would be obedient to the Scriptures (Heb.10:24,25; Acts 2:41,47).
The two verses in Acts refer specifically to the church in Jerusalem. That was the only church, a local church, that existed at that time. If you are obedient to the Lord you will be a member of a local church.

Local churches are usually associated with some sort of denomination. You even associate me with a denomination, even though I am not. But the name of my church or who I am associated with gives you an idea of what my beliefs are, doesn't it.

I never said that it did. My parents and family members are all Roman Catholic. They never had anything to do with my salvation. I was not saved by the influence of any pastor or church member. I got saved while visiting the campus of a university. God is not restricted to church, family or specific individuals as you say. I never disagreed with you. But he does command you to be a member of a local church.

You are confused. The Holy Spirit indwells every believer at the very instant they believe. That is why the Bible commands us to be in a local church where we can be under the influence of pastors, evangelists, teachers, whom he has given to the church, that we might be built up in the faith.

Then by your own words you are not saved saved, for you are not obeying the Word of God. If you are not a member of a local church you are not obeying the Word of God. You are living in a continued state of disobedience. What does the Bible say about believers who sin. A Christian cannot sin, which means he cannot continue in sin. But your life shows that you do. You rebel against the local church. It is a continued state of rebellion against God.

I also said “whomever.” You say you were saved while visiting a university campus, so then, you want me to include a ‘stranger’ to the list of people that cannot save you and give you the Holy Spirit, then I will, so here it goes…
You are not saved just because you joined a church.

You are not saved just because you heard a sound sounding denomination.

You are not saved just because your pastor, family member, friend, or STRANGER told

you just to believe and you would be saved.

Your pastor, family member, friend, or whomever spoke to you about Jesus

did not give you the Holy Spirit. Only Jesus gives the Holy Spirit, and you do

not get the Holy Spirit unless Jesus chooses to give it to you. Jesus gives

the Holy Spirit to those who obey.

You are not saved unless you are obeying the Word of God.

 

[Moriah]

Jesus never denied they did what they claimed.

Jesus said he never knew them…so, how could they cast out demons in his name?

What he denied is that they measured up to the Father's will for entrance into heaven.

Do not add your human reasoning. Jesus said they were evildoers. That means they did evil things.

That entrance requirement is spelled out right at the beginning of this sermon:

Mt. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The righteousness required by God to enter the kingdom of heaven must not merey EXCEED the best of relgious men but it must EQUAL the best of God Himself:

Read what the passage says, and do not add human wisdom! YOU NULLIFIED GOD”S WORD JUST NOW. Jesus says our righteousness must exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees; HOWEVER, YOU SAID, “not merely exceed…but it must equal the best of God Himself.” The Bible does not say what you say it does.
Stop adding human teachings to God’s Word.
Jesus says that our righteousness must exceed the Pharisees, that we are not to murder, as the Pharisees abide to do not murder, but we are to EXCEED that by not even being angry with our brother, and not saying ‘Raca’ to our brother, or call him a ‘fool’.

Mt. 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

How Perfect is the Father in heaven? He has never sinned in his past and is without sin presently and never will sin in the future. That is the standard of God's own righteousness and all others have "come short" of this glory of God and yet it is that standard which is the will of the Father to enter heaven.

That is why to fail in ONE point is to fail in ALL points of the Law because it only takes ONE SIN to be a sinner and thus come short of the glory of God.

You have already failed that standard! All religious people who believe and think as you do have already failed that standard and so the only kind of profession you can make on judgement day will be that profession - "Lord, Lord...in they name.......have we not done many wonderful works"

No, Biblicist, it is not as you say.
I admitted to my sins, I obeyed Jesus; Jesus saved me and cleansed me with his blood. For you to claim obeying Jesus is a damnable teaching is something that should raise some red flags for anyone to hear that.

THAT IS THE ONLY KIND OF RIGHEOUSNESS YOU CAN POSSIBLE OFFER God on judgement day.

Christians are to live obeying Jesus. Why does that fact bother you so much? Why do you try to teach against that so much?

However, that is not good enough. Almost sinless is not good enough! Almost perfect is not good enough! The REVEALED WILL of the Father is that only the righteousness that EXCEEDS the very best that man can offer is not good enough. The only righteousness God will accept for entrance into heaven is SINLESS righteousness or "be ye therefore perfect EVEN AS your Father in heaven IS PERFECT.

Go reread what I explained about the Pharisees.

Moriah where are you going to obtain that righteousness BEFORE judgment day? Your whole testimony is all about YOU and what YOU have done and are doing but YOU and YOUR WORKS are not good enough!

Jesus is everything. You must obey the Word of God. You must obey Jesus’ teachings, or you will not know Him, and He will not know you.

 

[Moriah]

have YOU given up all your sin in order to come to jesus and be saved?

You have asked me this a few times before, and I have explained it to you. I will explain it to you again…
I admitted I was a sinner. I confessed all my sins to Jesus. I was sorry for my sins. I set out to do everything Jesus commanded. Jesus saved me; he gave me his Holy Spirit. Jesus opened the eyes of my heart and gave me wisdom and knowledge to understand him. I live everyday aiming for perfection, living to do what Jesus says to do.

 

[DHK]

I also said “whomever.” You say you were saved while visiting a university campus, so then, you want me to include a ‘stranger’ to the list of people that cannot save you and give you the Holy Spirit, then I will, so here it goes…
You are not saved just because you joined a church.

I never said I was, but the Bible commands us to be part of a local church. Are you living in obedience to the Word of God, and are a member of a local church?

You are not saved just because you heard a sound sounding denomination.

I never said I was, but the Bible still commands believers to be a part of a local church. Are you a member of a local church? If so, which one?

You are not saved just because your pastor, family member, friend, or STRANGER told you just to believe and you would be saved.

I never said that was true either. I said that if you were obeying the Bible you would be a member of a local church. Are you obeying the commands of the Word of God or living in continual disobedience to them?

Your pastor, family member, friend, or whomever spoke to you about Jesus did not give you the Holy Spirit. Only Jesus gives the Holy Spirit, and you do not get the Holy Spirit unless Jesus chooses to give it to you. Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey.

That is heresy. The Lord promises to give the Holy Spirit to whosoever believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, and accepts his gift of salvation by faith and faith alone--not by obedience or works.

You are not saved unless you are obeying the Word of God.

More heresy. The Bible teaches that one is saved: by faith alone, in Christ alone, through grace alone.
If you do not believe in that how can you be saved??

 

[Moriah]

I never said I was, but the Bible commands us to be part of a local church. Are you living in obedience to the Word of God, and are a member of a local church?

I never said I was, but the Bible still commands believers to be a part of a local church. Are you a member of a local church? If so, which one?

I never said that was true either. I said that if you were obeying the Bible you would be a member of a local church. Are you obeying the commands of the Word of God or living in continual disobedience to them?

That is heresy. The Lord promises to give the Holy Spirit to whosoever believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, and accepts his gift of salvation by faith and faith alone--not by obedience or works.

More heresy. The Bible teaches that one is saved: by faith alone, in Christ alone, through grace alone.
If you do not believe in that how can you be saved??

Apostle Paul tells those in the New Testament times to continue meeting to spur each other on. That does not mean we have to join a local church. Not only that, most people will not allow you to spur them on and teach giving up sins. Just look how everyone here reacts to being told to obey.

As I said before, your pastor, family member, friend, or stranger cannot save you and give you the Holy Spirit. They can led you to the Truth, and in that, they can help you get saved, but only Jesus does the saving, only Jesus gives the Holy Spirit. Jesus chooses those who obey him.

 

[Yeshua1]

Apostle Paul tells those in the New Testament times to continue meeting to spur each other on. That does not mean we have to join a local church. Not only that, most people will not allow you to spur them on and teach giving up sins. Just look how everyone here reacts to being told to obey.

As I said before, your pastor, family member, friend, or stranger cannot save you and give you the Holy Spirit. They can led you to the Truth, and in that, they can help you get saved, but only Jesus does the saving, only Jesus gives the Holy Spirit. Jesus chooses those who obey him.

jesus gives His Holy spirit to those who call upon Him to get saved by God..

For IF God only granted the Spirit to those who would always obey Jesus. NONE of us, not even the Apostles, would ever get Him!

 

[DHK]

Apostle Paul tells those in the New Testament times to continue meeting to spur each other on. That does not mean we have to join a local church. Not only that, most people will not allow you to spur them on and teach giving up sins. Just look how everyone here reacts to being told to obey.

What was Paul's attitude toward the local church?
1. He went on three missionary journeys and in that time established about 100 local churches.
2. In each local church he ordained elders or pastors.
3. Every one of his epistles were either written to local churches or pastors of local churches.
4. He told us:
Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
--We don't have apostles or prophets any more, but we do have evangelists, pastors, and teachers. These has God given to the local church. Why?
Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

But it is easy to see that you are tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine. Your doctrine borders on heresy, and some of it is heresy, and you refuse the teaching of everyone. Your pride gets in the way for you think that you are the only one right and everyone else is wrong.

This post alone will prove what I just said.

We are commanded to be part of a local church. If we are not part of a local church we live in a continued state of disobedience to God. That is what you are doing. It is an evidence that one is not saved, and you have said that on this board. Those who continue not to obey God are not saved. Those are your words. You need to practice what you preach.

"Just look how everyone here reacts to being told to obey."
Your words.
You don't like it. You won't obey. You live a life of disobedience.
What do you think others will think now?

As I said before, your pastor, family member, friend, or stranger cannot save you and give you the Holy Spirit.

Why do you keep on repeating this? Tell me one place where anyone has said this or retract the statement.
No one on this entire board believes this. Why the innuendo.
It goes like this (I'm giving you an example).

Moriah, did you quit drinking that booze last Friday, or are you still having family problems because of it? People on the board are really concerned.

They can led you to the Truth, and in that, they can help you get saved, but only Jesus does the saving, only Jesus gives the Holy Spirit.

Again, point to the one who disagrees with you. Why do you make up stuff, as if people would be disagreeing with you.

Jesus chooses those who obey him.

Every Calvinist on the board agrees with this statement. In fact we are chosen before the foundation of the earth whether we obey or not. Isn't that the truth. Obedience has nothing to do with it. Faith does.

 

[The Biblicist]

Do not add your human reasoning. Jesus said they were evildoers. That means they did evil things.

Everything and anything you do that fails in ONE POINT of God's Law (ten commandments are the context of James 2:10-11) is EVIL as it is SIN! Hence, any attempt to enter heaven on the basis of a LIFE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS that is anything less than SINLESS is a life of "iniquity."

Read what the passage says, and do not add human wisdom! YOU NULLIFIED GOD”S WORD JUST NOW.

No! you did! Look at the context! Jesus came to "fulfill" the law but he did not come to "fulfill" it according to the interpretations of the elders which are given and corrected in Matthew 5:21-47. The interpretations of the elders interpreted the law so that sinners could keep it - just like you do! Jesus interpreted so that it is IMPOSSIBLE for sinners to keep as the righteousnes to enter heaven in verse 20 must be equal to the righteousness of God in verse 48. Think about it? Is there any righteousness acceptable to God that COMES SHORT of His own? Coming short of God's own righteousness is what Paul calls SIN (Rom. 3:20-23).

Jesus says our righteousness must exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees; HOWEVER, YOU SAID, “not merely exceed…but it must equal the best ofGod Himself.” The Bible does not say what you say it does.

You are ignorant of the context! Again, the preceding context is that Jesus has come to "fulfil" the law. The issue of that day and this day is what does that mean to fulfil the law? In Matthew 5:20 and 5:48 he sets the standard higher than the best of religious men and makes it equal to God's own righteousness. Coming short of the righteousness of God is what the Bible defines as sin (Rom. 3:20-23) and therefore fulfilling the righteous standard of the law is EQUALLING God's righteousness. If you cannot understand or accept that you need to go back to Sunday School and be retaught the basics. What in the world do you think it means that sin is to fail in only ONE POINT of the ten commandments (James 2:10-11)??? It means to keep or fulfill the law you must keep EVERY COMMANDMENT without failing in one point! What is that but sinless perfection and therefore the righteousness that exeeds the best of men must equal the best of God - sinlessness!

Where are you going to get that kind of righteousness Moriah????? Who are the "workers of iniquity"? It is all who come before God and expect to accepted by any kind of righteousness that fails in ONE POINT! Does your obedience to God fail in "one point"? If so, YOU FAIL ALL POINTS and therefore YOU are a worker of iniquity! Baptists would never come before God on the basis of our OWN WORKS no matter how "good" they may appear to men as God's standard of righteousness FOR ENTRANCE into heaven is an absolute SINLESS LIFE OF OBEDIENCE! Where are you goint to get that kind of righteousness Moriah??????? Without that kind of righteousness YOU are a worker of inquity in God's sight.

 

[Moriah]

jesus gives His Holy spirit to those who call upon Him to get saved by God..

For IF God only granted the Spirit to those who would always obey Jesus. NONE of us, not even the Apostles, would ever get Him!

Where did I say Jesus does not come to those who call Him to save them? Where did I say Jesus only saves those who do not mess up ever?
You should stay in line to what the person you are debating actually says. You should stay in line to what the Bible actually says.

As I said before, your pastor, family member, friend, or stranger cannot save you and give you the Holy Spirit. They can led you to the Truth, and in that, they can help you get saved, but only Jesus does the saving, only Jesus gives the Holy Spirit. Jesus chooses those who obey him.

 

[Moriah]

What was Paul's attitude toward the local church?
1. He went on three missionary journeys and in that time established about 100 local churches.
2. In each local church he ordained elders or pastors.
3. Every one of his epistles were either written to local churches or pastors of local churches.
4. He told us:
Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
--We don't have apostles or prophets any more, but we do have evangelists, pastors, and teachers. These has God given to the local church. Why?
Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

But it is easy to see that you are tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine.

I am not tossed to and fro. My beliefs are solid and sound. Your beliefs are the ones that toss to and fro.

On one side, you say we can believe in Jesus.
On the other side, you say we can understand nothing.

On one side, you say repent.
On the other side, you say repenting means nothing.

On one side, you say we do not have to obey Jesus to remain saved.
On the other side, you say all obey when they are saved.

On one side, you say a person who does not obey Jesus will have a fellowship problem.
On the other side, a person does not lose their salvation.

Your doctrine borders on heresy, and some of it is heresy, and you refuse the teaching of everyone. Your pride gets in the way for you think that you are the only one right and everyone else is wrong.

You just described yourself and many others here.

This post alone will prove what I just said.

We are commanded to be part of a local church. If we are not part of a local church we live in a continued state of disobedience to God.

It is not a command. God does not say what you say here.

That is what you are doing. It is an evidence that one is not saved, and you have said that on this board. Those who continue not to obey God are not saved. Those are your words. You need to practice what you preach.

You do not stay in line to what God says; no doubt, you will not try to stay in line to what I say. You make things up about God, and you make things up about me.

"Just look how everyone here reacts to being told to obey."
Your words.
You don't like it. You won't obey. You live a life of disobedience.
What do you think others will think now?

It is not a command to join a church. What has it done for you? It has reinforced your false beliefs.

Why do you keep on repeating this? Tell me one place where anyone has said this or retract the statement.
No one on this entire board believes this. Why the innuendo.
It goes like this (I'm giving you an example).

Moriah, did you quit drinking that booze last Friday, or are you still having family problems because of it? People on the board are really concerned.

You see, this is how you react when I say we are to obey. You prove that a person cannot tell you to obey. You get more irrational.

Again, point to the one who disagrees with you. Why do you make up stuff, as if people would be disagreeing with you.

I have no idea what you are talking about right there.

Every Calvinist on the board agrees with this statement. In fact we are chosen before the foundation of the earth whether we obey or not. Isn't that the truth. Obedience has nothing to do with it. Faith does.

We are not chosen before the foundation of the earth whether we obey or not. How could you ever get that Calvinism is like what I believe. That is just another example of your tossed around self of comments and beliefs.

 

[Moriah]

Everything and anything you do that fails in ONE POINT of God's Law (ten commandments are the context of James 2:10-11) is EVIL as it is SIN! Hence, any attempt to enter heaven on the basis of a LIFE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS that is anything less than SINLESS is a life of "iniquity."

You are speaking in a twisted backwards kind of way. Jesus says he never knew them, that they were evil doers. They did evil things. That is what that scripture says.

No! you did! Look at the context!

You so obviously nullified God’s word. You even quoted scripture where Jesus said our righteousness must surpass that of the Pharisees, but then you nullified God’s word by saying it must not merely surpass it.

Jesus came to "fulfill" the law but he did not come to "fulfill" it according to the interpretations of the elders which are given and corrected in Matthew 5:21-47. The interpretations of the elders interpreted the law so that sinners could keep it - just like you do! Jesus interpreted so that it is IMPOSSIBLE for sinners to keep as the righteousnes to enter heaven in verse 20 must be equal to the righteousness of God in verse 48. Think about it? Is there any righteousness acceptable to God that COMES SHORT of His own? Coming short of God's own righteousness is what Paul calls SIN (Rom. 3:20-23).

You are trying to string a bunch of scriptures together to make it sound like you want it to, but it still does not work Biblicist.
Our righteousness must surpass that of the Pharisees, we must not murder, and we must not even be angry with our brother.

You are ignorant of the context! Again, the preceding context is that Jesus has come to "fulfil" the law. The issue of that day and this day is what does that mean to fulfil the law? In Matthew 5:20 and 5:48 he sets the standard higher than the best of religious men and makes it equal to God's own righteousness.

Jesus warns his disciples about the teachings of the Pharisees, yet you go against this fact and say Jesus was using them as the best of religious men!

Coming short of the righteousness of God is what the Bible defines as sin (Rom. 3:20-23) and therefore fulfilling the righteous standard of the law is EQUALLING God's righteousness. If you cannot understand or accept that you need to go back to Sunday School and be retaught the basics.

Did your Sunday school help get you so lost?

What in the world do you think it means that sin is to fail in only ONE POINT of the ten commandments (James 2:10-11)??? It means to keep or fulfill the law you must keep EVERY COMMANDMENT without failing in one point! What is that but sinless perfection and therefore the righteousness that exeeds the best of men must equal the best of God - sinlessness!

That scripture is about being merciful.

Where are you going to get that kind of righteousness Moriah?????

You must be blind. I speak only of Jesus and you ask me where am I going to get righteousness from.

Who are the "workers of iniquity"? It is all who come before God and expect to accepted by any kind of righteousness that fails in ONE POINT!

Nowhere does it say what you just did. Jesus says they were evil doers. They were evil doers because they did evil! They were not evil doers because they tried to obey Jesus!

Does your obedience to God fail in "one point"? If so, YOU FAIL ALL POINTS and therefore YOU are a worker of iniquity! Baptists would never come before God on the basis of our OWN WORKS no matter how "good" they may appear to men as God's standard of righteousness FOR ENTRANCE into heaven is an absolute SINLESS LIFE OF OBEDIENCE! Where are you goint to get that kind of righteousness Moriah??????? Without that kind of righteousness YOU are a worker of inquity in God's sight.

As I have said, you must be blind, for I only speak of Jesus. You do the work of one who does not want us to obey Jesus.