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Why do Mormons and Baptists deny the need for historical evidence?

The Biblicist

The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Steadfast Fred said:
It's not that Paul is pitted against Paul, it is more like Whittenberger is pitted against the Truth.
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I understand your point, but it is Whittenberger who is pitting Paul against Paul because he is following uninspired interpreters of scripture instead of scripture itself.

Catholicism is the religion of INDIRECT SECOND PARTY approach to God. They place other mediators between God and man other than The Word (incarnate and written). They send their followers not after Christ but after the Father's to lead them to Christ. It is simply a SECOND HAND religion.

Jesus said "follow me" and Jesus NEVER quoted the elders/traditional interpretations as his authority but he did quote SCRIPTURES repeatedly to support his actions and words.

Paul said "follow me as I follow Christ" and Paul NEVER quoted the elders/traditional interpetations but condemned them and yet repeatedly quoted scriptures to support his actions and words.

The Scriptures themseles command us to directly submit the words of men to the light of the scriptures (Isa. 8:20) not vice versa as do the Catholic tradition.

The Scriptures themslves instruct us that the scriptures are completely sufficient to provide the man of God with everything needed for doctrine, correction, instruction, reproof so that we do not have to depend upon UNINSPIRED writings to know the truth (2 Tim. 3:16-17).

Whittenberger is a disciple of men not of Christ as are all Catholics.
 
W

Wittenberger

New Member
Dear Baptist/evagelical brothers and sisters:

I ask each one of you to review all my comments and find one place where I expressed "hatred of Baptists".

Do I disagree with them, yes. Hate them, no.

I feel you are Christians, blinded by a circular argument, invented in the 1500's, with no more historical evidence than that used by the non-Christian Mormons.

That is my sincere belief. It is not "hatred".

I have presented you with what I believe is the truth. I believe we are at an impasse. Further debate is only going to enrage you more. I will stop.

I love each and every one of you with the love of a brother, your brother in Christ. God be with you. I will pray for each of you.

Wittenberger
 
The Biblicist

The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Wittenberger said:
Dear Baptist/evagelical brothers and sisters:

I ask each one of you to review all my comments and find one place where I expressed "hatred of Baptists".

Do I disagree with them, yes. Hate them, no.

I feel you are Christians, blinded by a circular argument, invented in the 1500's, with no more historical evidence than that used by the non-Christian Mormons.

That is my sincere belief. It is not "hatred".

I have presented you with what I believe is the truth. I believe we are at an impasse. Further debate is only going to enrage you more. I will stop.

I love each and every one of you with the love of a brother, your brother in Christ. God be with you. I will pray for each of you.

Wittenberger
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I would strongly suggest you review the solid Biblical responses that were given to your imaginative ideas and interpretations.
 
D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Wittenberger said:
For all the harsh language used by both Baptists and non-baptists on this site, I am shocked to find out that "repent of your false doctrine" is such a grevious insult.
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Of course it is. This is a Baptist board. Why would you come to a large group of Baptists, come on their board (a private one, mind you) and tell them that they are all heretics and they need to repent??
That is the height of arrogance, rudeness, etc. And yes, it is against the rules. In so doing you question the salvation of everyone that is here.
But if it is against the "rules", I apologize.

I guess I should just say: "your doctrine is from the Pit!"??? That seems to be acceptable.
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As I said--questioning the salvation...
Remember you are on a Baptist board. You are a visitor here. Posting is a privilege not a right. You are abusing your privilege to post, which may be taken away at any time, for any reason, according to the agreement that you agreed to.
I am not here to insult you. I am here to share the truth with you. I have been where you are. I know how you think. I am trying to shine some fresh light into your thinking.

If I have personally offended anyone, I apologize. But if I have offended you for preaching the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, I cannot apologize. Ban me if you must, but I think you should seriously question why you have this forum in the first place. If you want only Baptists and evangelicals, disband this forum.
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All of which is not true.
1. You have insulted us. Don't lie about it.
2. You are not sharing the truth; you are posting lies.
3. Apparently you don't know how we think; most of us think differently, so unless you are God....
4. Your light isn't fresh; it is more akin to darkness.
5. You have offended many. One of the greatest offenses is the very OP of this thread. It is offensive to compare Baptists with Mormons.
6. IMO, you don't preach the true gospel of Jesus Christ, so yes, you still need to apologize, and furthermore you need to learn about Christ and his atoning work.
7. We know why the forum exists; it is not for trolls.
8. The forum is for Baptists and evangelicals and always has been. Who are you to say otherwise. If you want a board of another nature there are others you can look for. Don't disrupt this one. Say your good-bye's and leave.
 
W

Wittenberger

New Member
DHK said:
Of course it is. This is a Baptist board. Why would you come to a large group of Baptists, come on their board (a private one, mind you) and tell them that they are all heretics and they need to repent??
That is the height of arrogance, rudeness, etc. And yes, it is against the rules. In so doing you question the salvation of everyone that is here.

As I said--questioning the salvation...
Remember you are on a Baptist board. You are a visitor here. Posting is a privilege not a right. You are abusing your privilege to post, which may be taken away at any time, for any reason, according to the agreement that you agreed to.

All of which is not true.
1. You have insulted us. Don't lie about it.
2. You are not sharing the truth; you are posting lies.
3. Apparently you don't know how we think; most of us think differently, so unless you are God....
4. Your light isn't fresh; it is more akin to darkness.
5. You have offended many. One of the greatest offenses is the very OP of this thread. It is offensive to compare Baptists with Mormons.
6. IMO, you don't preach the true gospel of Jesus Christ, so yes, you still need to apologize, and furthermore you need to learn about Christ and his atoning work.
7. We know why the forum exists; it is not for trolls.
8. The forum is for Baptists and evangelicals and always has been. Who are you to say otherwise. If you want a board of another nature there are others you can look for. Don't disrupt this one. Say your good-bye's and leave.
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Typical fundamentalist hate-filled rant. I never questioned anyone's salvation. I questioned your denial of needing any historical evidence to back up your sixteenth century doctrines. Since you have none, you resort to attacking the messenger, instead of seeing the truth of the message.

I left the fundamental Baptist churches for this very reason: too many people who are judgemental and down right hateful of anyone who disagrees with them.

Grow up, DHK, and get some thicker skin!

You won't see me on the BB again. You can all breath a sigh of releif and go back into your safe cocoons of "we know we are right because we have an inner voice that tells us so."

Wake up, brothers and sisters!

Wittenberger
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The Biblicist said:
No one, not even the elect are brought to salvation by a false gospel (2 Thes. 2:13-14). If they are saved, and I do believe many are genuinely saved, they are saved in spite of the false gospel, and they are saved through hearing the Word of God as empowered by the Holy Spirit (1 Thes. 1:4-5).
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yes, as the work of the Holy Spirit is to make sure that those whom the father had predestined to come to faith in Yeshua will indeed do so, as he can make sure that they will get the real salvation message, even in the RCC!
That is why i stated its despite their false Gospel, as he can save sinners out from even RCC/Mormons/JW, but once saved, time to depart out from among them!
 
M

Michael Wrenn

New Member
Wittenberger said:
Typical fundamentalist hate-filled rant. I never questioned anyone's salvation. I questioned your denial of needing any historical evidence to back up your sixteenth century doctrines. Since you have none, you resort to attacking the messenger, instead of seeing the truth of the message.

I left the fundamental Baptist churches for this very reason: too many people who are judgemental and down right hateful of anyone who disagrees with them.

Grow up, DHK, and get some thicker skin!

You won't see me on the BB again. You can all breath a sigh of releif and go back into your safe cocoons of "we know we are right because we have an inner voice that tells us so."

Wake up, brothers and sisters!

Wittenberger
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I am not a fundamentalist, as many who are posting in this very thread can attest to.

I object to many of your posts because they are self-righteous, insulting, and contain attacks and lies.

I base my beliefs on the finality of the scriptures, not any "inner voice". You don't even follow your own new denomination's belief in the final authority of scripture, instead following the RCC error of making tradition equal with scripture. The doctrines of those here whom you attack are based on scripture; yours are not. And yet when I asked what do you do if tradition contradicts scripture; which do you believe and follow, you had no answer. It's clear, though, that you place tradition over scripture.

Thus, it is you who needs to wake up and return to the teachings of Jesus and the apostles as taught in the New Testament!
 
The Biblicist

The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Michael Wrenn said:
I am not a fundamentalist, as many who are posting in this very thread can attest to.

I object to many of your posts because they are self-righteous, insulting, and contain attacks and lies.

I base my beliefs on the finality of the scriptures, not any "inner voice". You don't even follow your own new denomination's belief in the final authority of scripture, instead following the RCC error of making tradition equal with scripture. The doctrines of those here whom you attack are based on scripture; yours are not. And yet when I asked what do you do if tradition contradicts scripture; which do you believe and follow, you had no answer. It's clear, though, that you place tradition over scripture.

Thus, it is you who needs to wake up and return to the teachings of Jesus and the apostles as taught in the New Testament!
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We don't agree on much but you certainly nailed this one!
 
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Wittenberger said:
After multiple discussions with several Baptists and evangelicals on this site I have come to the conclusion that the fact that there is no historical evidence that any Christian living in the first six centuries of Christianity held the Baptist view that Baptism is an act of obedience/public profession of faith ONLY, really does not bother them. Why?

These Baptists and evangelicals state that there is no need for historical evidence to support their interpretation of the Bible because a true Christian only needs the Holy Spirit to guide them, by an inner voice, to see the real "truth" in Scripture. "The true interpretation of the Bible is so obvious!" they say.

That's strange! That is exactly what the Mormons say!

This is the problem with basing your entire belief system on an inner voice that you just know for a fact has to be the Holy Spirit: It may not be! It may just be you and your ego! It may be Satan himself talking to you in that quiet, inner voice!

Listen to how the Mormons put it in this short clip:

http://dwhamby1.wordpress.com/2008/05/05/do-mormons-have-any-evidence-of-their-claims/
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Oh I see what you are doing here. Very nice! You are making an attempt to put baptists in the same ball park as Mormons so that you can demean them for disagreeing with your position. This is a very slick debate tactic.

Back over at my board someone just made a comparison of atheists and Christians since some atheists are pro-life. I suppose that being pro-life is not an atheist thing to do now using your ridiculous logic here for the purpose to demean others. Good luck with that! :thumbs:
 
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