Featured Does Baptism have to be by immersion?

Would say the immersion is the model given to us in the NT by the Apsotles, and would be the prefered one to do it, in believers baptism

Would also say that my biggest problem/concern with those advocating others modes of it is IF they see baptism as the agent/means God uses to regenerate them, cleanse them, if it is a sacramental grace?

 

Matt slick is wrong - in every place in greek literature either within or outside of the bible both the verb and the noun refer to dipping/immersing. More convincing is that if the verb was ever used in thes ense of merely sprinkling it would mean that the person was sprinkled over the water as the person is usually subject of the verb!

However that being said the early church made exceptions when there was a reason to do so.

 

There is a bit of confusion here. The ceremonial washings of temple furniture was by immersion into water. There are accounts of preists carrying temple articles into water in complete immersion of them.

Sprinkling of blood had to do with another kind of ceremonial cleansing of the same temple furniture. Sprinkling of blood on the temple furniture was a type of internal cleansing of the conscience from the defilement of sin.

However, Christian baptism has nothing to do with the Old Covenant or its ceremonial cleansing.

The Greek has distinct terms for sprinkling (rantizo) and pouring (epicheo) as distinct from immersion (baptizo). The other two terms are never used to describe the Christian ordinance.

 

My biggest concern is not though witthe modes of baptism, do hold to immersion, but in what that means to their church! is it sacramenat in nature or not!

 

That is a weakness in your position. The same weakness that has driven McArthur, Piper, and other Reformed Baptists to receiving sprinkling and pouring as long as they followed a true gospel conversion.

Here is the point and your problem - the only purpose of a symbol is in its proper administration so that it can convey what it was designed to symbolize. When anyone departs from the PATTERN they depart from the truth that PATTERN was designed to convey. Immersion is designed as a PATTNER of the gospel of Jesus Christ, his death and HIS BURIAL and resurrection.

Depart from that assigned PATTERN/FORM you pervert the gospel as much as those who depart from the truth of the gospel in their teachings.

 

the Gospel though is NOT in any ordinance per say, as they would be an illusration of the truth that was in the Gospel!

As long as one holds to the truth of what/how the Lord saves a sinner, the mode of baptism to me is a secondary issue, Immersion the BEST and most biblically accurate way, but as I stated earlier, more concerned IF one holds to it being means to save/regenerate us!

 

Where in the scriptures does it ever say "as long as one holds....the mode...is secondary"???? That is your vain human rationalization!

It is clear from the Old Testament that when God gave a PATTERN he demanded they not alter that pattern in the least way and punished them from altering the pattern as much as denying the truth conveyed by that particular pattern!

John was sent by God and the baptism he administered was the "counsel of God" (Lk. 7:29-30). When you pervert the pattern/form you pervert the gospel of Jesus Christ. Look at the perversion of the PATTERN in the Lord's Supper! Did God take that lightly? Paul said "this is not the Lord's Supper" becuase they violated the symbolism involved.

Don't forsake the scriptures by using human rationalizations that you cannot support from the scriptues and you cannot support your rationalization from the scriptures.

 

Baptism by immersion is NOT required by the Didache, the oldest existing Church statement of faith.

 

Going back to Lidell and Scott Greek Lexicon, a Classical Lexicon and onward, baptizo means to dip, plunge. In the passive, "to be drowned, drenched, soaked in wine and so on.

I believe this meaning is retained in the New Testament as well.

 

Didn't know the "Didache" was inspired or recognized as part of "scripture"? Ever heard of the "false decretals"? Ever read the short versus longer versions of the apostolic fathers?

How does anyone absolutely confirm the credibility of any of the "Father's"? Through Roman Catholics?????? That is enough in itself to thoroughly place it in question.

At what point in the "Father's" do you stop recognizing it as the basis for your faith and doctrine? At the close of the apostolic fathers? At the close of the Ante-Nicene father's? At the close of the Nicene Father's? Somewhere in the middle of the Post-Nicene Father's? If you don't have a cut off point then you need to go back to Mother Rome.

 

Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

 

If you were baptised using the Trinitarian formula, then you were biblically baptised. Since there is but one baptism, repeating it isn't a good thing.

WM

 

I found this on website offering another meaning for baptizo: "Immersion is not the only meaning of baptizo. Sometimes it just means washing up. Thus Luke 11:38 reports that, when Jesus ate at a Pharisee’s house, "[t]he Pharisee was astonished to see that he did not first wash [baptizo] before dinner." They did not practice immersion before dinner, but, according to Mark, the Pharisees "do not eat unless they wash [nipto] their hands, observing the tradition of the elders; and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they wash themselves [baptizo]" (Mark 7:3–4a, emphasis added). So baptizo can mean cleansing or ritual washing as well as immersion." Is this correct?

 

Ok someone please show me how the sprinkling of blood in the OT is an equivalent comparison to Baptizing people in the NT. I fail to see the connection.

 

No. Baptizo means immerse. The Jews were to wash/bathe several times a day if necessary to cleanse themselves. They had become obsessive about it in the time of Jesus.

 

Matt Slick is a Calvinist. Calvinism is full of false doctrines.
Pray about it to God. Study the Bible, read from different teachers.
Just some advice I wanted to give.