Featured If the Church is spiritual Israel...

BSKI,
Sounds good ...We can start fresh. I resisted some of these ideas when I first heard them also. I argued against them as herseies.:wavey:
I studied through the book of hebrews for more than two years....I found that some of what I believed seemed to contradict what I had been taught was true.
I am still learning. I do not claim any special knowledge. I am a truck driver. But even a truck driver can be Spirit filled:thumbs:
God has His people everywhere.
You should only believe what God's word teaches,as should I. the purpose of interacting here should be to help each other.
Christians have and do believe different things at different points in their lives. At the end of the day when it comes to end times......I do not think ones endtime calendar is as important as what we are called to do in LK 1;

 

So you are proving my point that the church was a mystery to man, but not to God. What is so hard to understand that Christ can be both wife to the Nation of Israel, as the scriptures attest, but the church is the bride of Christ? Wife and bride are two different things. Christ's eternal purpose was to die for the elect of the church, but it also was to rule on the throne of David in a physical kingdom with the nation Israel as his people.

 

Agreed. And nothing wrong with truck drivers. My wife's dad and my dad were truck drivers, and I spent almost 10 years driving myself. My dad only had an 8th grade education but he was one of the smartest men I have ever met. He was a shop steward for the Teamsters and knew the contract forward and backward, and he knew his bible as well.

 

Icon

The Apostle Paul's letter called Hebrews is a wonderful book and puts the Old Testament system in its proper perspective relative to the revelation and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. I believe a serious study of Hebrews could clear up many problems for those trained in dispensational thought!

 

I don't believe the Apostle Paul wrote the epistle of the Hebrews. I used to think that, but Hebrews 2:3 tells us that the writer was a second generation believer that received the message of Christ from those who heard Christ. Paul claimed his gospel was revealed directly by the Lord. See I Cor. 15:8 and Galatians 1:12.

The book of Hebrews, imo, tells us how much better Christ is than angels, Moses, etc, etc, etc. It also gives warnings against not enduring or persevering. Dr. Fowler called it the carrot and stick method. But it doesn't refute dispensationalism at all imo. However, I will do another study and see what comes of it.

 

Yes. The book of Hebrews speaks to the current reign and activity of our Lord.
As our Great High Priest we are told to consider Him.
3 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

I believe as showing His superiority as Bski mentioned...it also explains to persecuted saints what he is doing currently as He reigns.

In Revelation 20 we are told he reigns for a thousand years. It does not say the reign is on earth.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
These saints who were beheaded, lived and reigned with him for the full time period.

To try and have a future thousand year reign on earth...people appeal to Isa 11.....and yet Paul quotes that in Romans as happening now.

 

perhaps, but a careful study of Romans could help those in Covenant theology see the truth of Dispy views better!

 

Again, those holding to Covenant views think we hold to 2 salvations, one to jews/other gentiles!

In THIS age, BOTh saved by the cross. period!

but also the truth that when jesus returns, and during end time leading up to that event, that god will once again work at reddeming out spiritual isreal, as ALL jews alive then will be reborn again....And a nation shall bespiritually reborn, as all isreal at that time saved, as per Zechariah and paul stated and Ezeckiel!

 

And the parable of the Olive tree in Romans 11 refutes classic dispensational doctrine of the Church.

 

Do you build theology upon parables?

or upon the whole word of God?

 

You are not saying, the Old Testament system, was a dispensation, are you?

 

I always thought the parables in Scripture were part of the Word of God. Am I mistaken?

I thought the literalist believed even parables taught a literal truth. Am I wrong again?

 

Some writers, others than dispensationalists, sometimes speak of the Old Testament as a dispensation, though I don't believe in the same sense that dispensationalists speak of a dispensation.

 

Are not all who do not believe living in the darkness of spiritual blindness?
Please define "ALL Israel". Will all of the physical descendants of Abraham, who was not a Jew, be granted salvation based upon their genealogical lineage? What does "all" mean to you? All Jews who happen to be alive at Christ's return? What about the millions & millions of Jews have been slaughtered over the centuries just for being Jewish? Will God grant them all salvation?

"ALL Israel" can only be in harmony with Scripture if it applies to spiritual Israel through the seed of Christ.

 

Those who call themselves Jews or Israelites, but are not true believers in jesus Christ, occupy the same relationship with God as all other people in the world be they Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, and lost people in general. That relationship is changed only through faith in Jesus Christ!

 

yes, in this present Age of the Church, but once it is removed, than God goes back to dealing with them as a people!

 

No! Not at all! God finished with Israel as a people when they crucified Jesus Christ.

 

So, you are saying that He will suspend the New Covenant & reinstitute the Old Law for a few Jews. Dealing with them as a group, instead of as individuals, means that you believe in a collective salvation based upon genealogy instead of the blood of Christ. That is not Biblical.

The Church is not limited to an Age, it is an eternal Body that will never cease.

 

Sounds good to me, and Biblical!