Just was showing that people HAVE prayed to jesus in the bible!
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The Holy Spirit and Salvation 2
- Thread starter savedbymercy
- Start date
Just was showing that people HAVE prayed to jesus in the bible!
savedbymercy
New Member
Just gave you 2 errors that you have posted her on the BB!
You have failed in this thread to prove anything inaccurate that I have posted, you have evaded posts 1,6,8,10, and 12 ! And all of them refute your false view of Salvation and how it is applied, and your glorification of men !
You have failed in this thread to prove anything inaccurate that I have posted, you have evaded posts 1,6,8,10, and 12 ! And all of them refute your false view of Salvation and how it is applied, and your glorification of men !
Did the death of Jesus atone for your sins?
have you received jesus by faith in order to get saved by his death?
savedbymercy
New Member
Faith pleases God !
Heb 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
For any man to say that he can exercise Faith here, which pleases God, while yet in a state of nature, they are a liar, for its like saying that a corrupt tree can bring forth goof fruit Matt 7:18
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
And Yes Faith is a good fruit from a goodly source Gal 5:22
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith [ Same Word in Heb 11:6],
Thats why when Faith is mentioned in Justification or Salvation, it means evidence of Spiritual Life, or having been born again of the Spirit. Yes the one exercising Faith, has been born of God, and that is what pleases God, His own Work in us through Christ, that is what pleases God Heb 13:21
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Those who say they pleased God with human faith, not being born again, they are liars !
They that are in the Flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
So how can one exercise Faith in Heb 11:6 and be in the flesh ? Paul confirms here in Rom 8:8 what Jesus had already stated here Matt 7:18
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
__________________
Heb 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
For any man to say that he can exercise Faith here, which pleases God, while yet in a state of nature, they are a liar, for its like saying that a corrupt tree can bring forth goof fruit Matt 7:18
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
And Yes Faith is a good fruit from a goodly source Gal 5:22
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith [ Same Word in Heb 11:6],
Thats why when Faith is mentioned in Justification or Salvation, it means evidence of Spiritual Life, or having been born again of the Spirit. Yes the one exercising Faith, has been born of God, and that is what pleases God, His own Work in us through Christ, that is what pleases God Heb 13:21
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Those who say they pleased God with human faith, not being born again, they are liars !
They that are in the Flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
So how can one exercise Faith in Heb 11:6 and be in the flesh ? Paul confirms here in Rom 8:8 what Jesus had already stated here Matt 7:18
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
__________________
savedbymercy
New Member
Union with Christ before believing in Him !
Before any man or woman can believe in or on Christ regarding Justification or Salvation, they must first be in Union with Him Spiritually, that is already abiding in Him, we know this by Christ's words here Jn 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Jesus alludes to the same truth here Jn 6:56
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
The eating and drinking here signifies believing or appropriating Christ by Faith, and Jesus said, the ones doing that, are dwelling or abiding in Him, and He is in them ! That denotes Pre Union !
In other words, their believing is the fruit of being in Him and Him being in them by Spiritual New Birth. We must first be a branch in the Vine before we can bear fruit, and Faith is one of the Fruits of the Spirit Gal 5:22 !
The Ground must first be made good before the Gospel message can take root and bring forth fruit Matt 13:23
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Notice the words here bringeth forth, meaning fruit and observe the same in Jn 15:5
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Without Christ, separate from we can do nothing, spiritually as to believe or rest in Him for all of Salvation !
So before believing, one must be already united to Christ, we must be, before we can believe in Him !
Before any man or woman can believe in or on Christ regarding Justification or Salvation, they must first be in Union with Him Spiritually, that is already abiding in Him, we know this by Christ's words here Jn 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Jesus alludes to the same truth here Jn 6:56
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
The eating and drinking here signifies believing or appropriating Christ by Faith, and Jesus said, the ones doing that, are dwelling or abiding in Him, and He is in them ! That denotes Pre Union !
In other words, their believing is the fruit of being in Him and Him being in them by Spiritual New Birth. We must first be a branch in the Vine before we can bear fruit, and Faith is one of the Fruits of the Spirit Gal 5:22 !
The Ground must first be made good before the Gospel message can take root and bring forth fruit Matt 13:23
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Notice the words here bringeth forth, meaning fruit and observe the same in Jn 15:5
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Without Christ, separate from we can do nothing, spiritually as to believe or rest in Him for all of Salvation !
So before believing, one must be already united to Christ, we must be, before we can believe in Him !
savedbymercy
New Member
Scripture is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ is the author [causer] of our Faith and the Finisher Heb 12:2
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
That word author is the greek word archēgos and means:
the chief leader, prince
a) of Christ
2) one that takes the lead in any thing and thus affords an example, a predecessor in a matter, pioneer
3) the author
Now this word is made up of Two greek words one is archē and means:
beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
a) of angels and demons
Now Jesus Christ is the First active cause of our Faith. Now understand, the writer is not only speaking of believers under the New Covenant, but also of all the believers under the Old Covenant as outlined in Chapter 11 of Hebrews. Yes, He was the Author of their Faith even though He had not yet became incarnate, Yet He was still their Mediator and Surety before His Incarnation and so was the Author and Finisher of their Faith, the Captain of their Salvation !
But I said all that to bring up this, in order for Christ to be the Author of our Faith and to communicate it to us, there had to be a Union with Him prior to, as the branch must be united to the root before it can bring forth fruit Jn 15:4-5
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
That word author is the greek word archēgos and means:
the chief leader, prince
a) of Christ
2) one that takes the lead in any thing and thus affords an example, a predecessor in a matter, pioneer
3) the author
Now this word is made up of Two greek words one is archē and means:
beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
a) of angels and demons
Now Jesus Christ is the First active cause of our Faith. Now understand, the writer is not only speaking of believers under the New Covenant, but also of all the believers under the Old Covenant as outlined in Chapter 11 of Hebrews. Yes, He was the Author of their Faith even though He had not yet became incarnate, Yet He was still their Mediator and Surety before His Incarnation and so was the Author and Finisher of their Faith, the Captain of their Salvation !
But I said all that to bring up this, in order for Christ to be the Author of our Faith and to communicate it to us, there had to be a Union with Him prior to, as the branch must be united to the root before it can bring forth fruit Jn 15:4-5
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
savedbymercy
New Member
If it is being taught that one must first believe in order to get eternal life, then we fall into salvation by works, based upon the same principle of Law under the Old Covenant which is do and Live, much like those jews who were ignorant of Salvation by Grace Rom 10:4-5
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
The principle here is that if men must do to live ! Yes, if there is no life until we believe, then thats works !
However, the Covenant of Grace is the opposite, for in it men must first live in order to do, for God in this Covenant first gives Life, and from that comes the doing ! Ezk 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit[Life] will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit[New Life Principle] within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
But, if one must first do to get new Life and a New Spirit and a New Heart, that is reverted back to the Old Covenant principle of works and Law !
Now many will say, that believing or Faith is the opposite to works Rom 4:4-5
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Now when faith or believing is opposed to works, it is understood objectively, that is, it is understood of Christ believed on as the object of faith after He is revealed to one in the Gospel as their Righteousness, and not the act of believing, for without a doubt, ones act of believing is just as much as our doing as ones act of love, So again, if we must first do, act, perform before we obtain life in Christ, we are back to Law !
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
The principle here is that if men must do to live ! Yes, if there is no life until we believe, then thats works !
However, the Covenant of Grace is the opposite, for in it men must first live in order to do, for God in this Covenant first gives Life, and from that comes the doing ! Ezk 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit[Life] will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit[New Life Principle] within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
But, if one must first do to get new Life and a New Spirit and a New Heart, that is reverted back to the Old Covenant principle of works and Law !
Now many will say, that believing or Faith is the opposite to works Rom 4:4-5
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Now when faith or believing is opposed to works, it is understood objectively, that is, it is understood of Christ believed on as the object of faith after He is revealed to one in the Gospel as their Righteousness, and not the act of believing, for without a doubt, ones act of believing is just as much as our doing as ones act of love, So again, if we must first do, act, perform before we obtain life in Christ, we are back to Law !