Featured Emotional or Exegetical?

The Westminster Confession of Faith, a known and widely respected confession of Reformed scholars states,

"I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass"​

Now, I would presume that what I believe (my soteriological views) is within the confines of 'whatsoever comes to pass'. Don't you?

 

We are basing our beliefs by our emotions. The more we listen and learn from Christ the more His lovingkindness draws us to Himself. We through His word are in love with God. We are born dead every single one of us headed for destruction. In our first birth we are apart of the world no matter how much we want to deny it and say we are special from our first birth.

We to see heaven have to be born again they way we are in our first birth can not even see heaven. Through Jesus word when we listen and learn we are being born again, we are becoming a new creation in Christ. We are being born again through the enduring word of God, your first birth will not even let you see heaven. Only in Christ can we see heaven. Your first birth has nothing to do with your salvation, you have to be born again and only in Christ can that happen. Jesus is the only reason you see heaven. Our old creation is death our new creation in Christ is life.

We want to create everyone like us. The hand can't tell the foot we don't need you because you are not like me. We all have different function in Christ and may look different and have different purposes, but we are to be part of the same body. I am not going to feel shame in who I am becoming in Christ or guilty in who He is created me to be in Christ.

 

No. I don't think that's what it means. God can also ordain that you think for yourself.

 

So, you now blindly accept whatever Reformed believers say too? What else could 'unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass' mean?

My point exactly!

 

I don't "blindly" accept anything. God is the sovereign King of the universe. Nothing is outside of His authority. So in that sense He ordains everything.

 

They have to post something ...so they can participate. Scriptural arguements of any substance......you might have to wait on that:laugh:

 

Winman and HOSS

Seems like I recall that a post was made recently suggesting that rather than saying a person is incorrect or has no idea what they are talking about we were to say something nice like: "In my opinion" or "I disagree with your premise"! Perhaps I got carried away in my attempt to be agreeable. If so I apologize, but not humbly cause someone said I lied if I said I humbly disagree.

humblethinker you should consider changinging your moniker since someone done told me:

 

Icon, I'd welcome an audit of our posts over the past years to see which if us actually references and exegetes scriptures the most. You know full well this comment is nothing more than meant to inflame and falsely accuse. You can do better than that.

 

So, in what 'sense' does He NOT ordain (predetermine) everything? And how is what I said inaccurate?

 

A word to Winman, HOSS, humble thinker, Skandelon and any other Arminian or freewill believers on the forum: Whether you brethern agree with or understand the Doctrines of Grace, which some of you relish in calling Calvinism or determinism, you are saved only because, before the foundation of the world God chose you and all that are saved or ever will be saved, to Salvation in Jesus Christ; and that is a Scriptural truth.

John 6:37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:65. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


John 10:24-29
24. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.
26. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.


Ephesians 1:4-7
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Romans 8:29, 30
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

I present the above without comment. They have been posted many times and I am sure they are familiar to you brethern. Furthermore, anything I might say would be superfluous and surely rejected as always before.

One thing is obvious in the posts of most of you brethern; they exhibit a pernicious animosity against the Doctrines of Grace. Is it just possible that you are kicking against the "pricks" or "goads" as jesus Christ asked the persecutor Saul on the road to Damascus?

 

If we are imprisoning and killing and persecuting the Church, then yes, if we aren't then probably not, no.

 

John 6:44
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

1 John 2:23
No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life.

John 14:24
Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

John 6 :
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

Jeremiah 31:3
The LORD has appeared of old to me, saying: “Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.

 

The Op speaks of a human sense of justice while implying its opposition attributes this sense to God’s judgment. False, non-Calvinist believes in the truth of Divine judgment and understands it is logically impossible for truth in justice if all actions and abilities to respond have been pre-determined. The non-Calvinist upholds the true character of God and that He is Truth, and believes in the truth that God is love and in His purpose in creation which was to bring that love into all the world for His creatures in a promise made before the foundation as well as uphold the truth that there is no excuse for not responding to God’s offer of grace which pertains to all his creatures.

He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
(Deu 32:4)

The Op goes on to claim its opposition uses emotionalism to interpret scripture. False, the non-Calvinist focuses on important Divine truths and does not have to go through the very emotion the Op suggest the Calvinists have to go through which consist of despair of having to accept a Nature of God that is not consistent with the truth of His Nature and purposes of God in creation and does not have to forgo the “truth” of Divine judgment. Calvinist are forced to do so because their doctrines logically are hinging on determinism which assigns evil to Him and leads to into theological fatalism.

It seems to me, as has been admitted, the Calvinist are the ones struggling with emotionalism which is brought on by feeling the need of having to hold onto a doctrine of man; one that declares faith had to be determined upon them against their will. I suggest the correct interpretations would allow it to be much easier for them to accept the truths of God’s character and judgment because it would bring them peace and give light to the truth that they could freely accept giving their own faith for love of these truths through their own volition.

The premise of Op is basically begging the question with a belief that Calvinism is true while attempting to claim proper interpretations of scripture to them alone and while unethically assigning mere emotional interpretations to non-Calvinist. It is rather an insulting rhetorical ploy to discredit its opposition and is not only baseless but revealing of its own unecessary emotional struggles.

 

If your doctrine does not affect your emotions then perhaps you need new doctrine.

God bless.

 

You people are doing your best at persecuting those on this board who believe in the Doctrines of Grace.

In the course of doing that some of you are making outrageous statements about the nature of GOD. Now I am not accusing you HOSS but I have seen the accusation that the Doctrines of Grace make "God a monster". I am not going to search the board to find out who and when!

 

Who said my doctrine does not affect my emotions?

But I can honestly say this, my doctrine does not contradict what I know to be just. It is not "a hard pill to swallow" as Luke said about Calvinism.

 

This is total misrepresentation. We are not making any outrageous statements about the nature of God. We in fact believe that Calvinism/Reformed doctrine makes outrageous statements about God.

You believe that before the foundation of the world that God determined to cast many people in the lake of fire. God did not do this because he saw these men would be evil, your doctrine of Unconditional Election states that God elects to save some, and pass by all others without regard to whether they are good or evil. Your doctrine states that God casts men in the lake of fire to glorify himself.

Even with the elect, you believe that God ordained them to sin so that he could save them to glorify himself. This would be like a doctor intentionally infecting a village with a deadly disease, and then saving a few of these victims to glorify himself, and allowing the rest to die. If a doctor did such a thing we would justly throw that man in jail for the rest of his life, or possibly execute him. But this is similar to your view of God.

It is your doctrine that makes outrageous accusations against God, we are trying to defend God. Not that God needs our defense, but so that others are not deceived by this terrible doctrine.

I am amazed that anyone can believe this doctrine.