Featured Have a Beer! It may be sinful NOT TO!

Looks like John MacArthur's got somebody pegged:

http://www.gty.org/blog/b110809

 

At one point, someone was probably saying it might be a sin to not use cocaine.

http://www.protecthealthbenefits.org/health-news/cocaine-was-once-a-wonder-drug

Eat some grapes. Chew the seeds. Yummy.

And don't use cocaine.

Glad that's settled.

May we now move on to the next scurge of so called "healthy" drugs you'd like to promote as a good idea for Christians to use on a regular basis?

 

The stance against alcohol is a relative new development. It is also pretty much an American one as well.

If people really want to stand against all "intoxicants" they better be against coffee, chocolate, food, water, and well, anything that impacts our mind or our mood.

Scripture does not call for such a ban and we dishonor God and His Word when we build such walls.

 

I have not read anywhere that someone had several cups of coffee and went out and killed someone in a car wreck because they were impaired. Alcohol abuse is a scurge on this society as are drugs. In fact, when I was in school alcohol was listed as a drug. I don't know if that is still true. The problem is that most people think they can handle it, yet stats show a different story. Look at Josh Hamilton, a Christian, yet he still struggles with alcohol abuse.

Why do you care if someone calls for a ban on all alcohol usage? It will never happen and if you are sure that you are not violating your convictions nor responsible to a weaker brother, then why the consternation? Are you sure scripture doesn't call for a ban in some cases? Better read again what Paul said the mature attitude would be if a weaker brother was involved.

 

You still have not proved that "most Christians drank alcohol" as you claimed.

 

The problem being against all intoxicants is people do not think that position through. They fail to see their own hypocrisy as they feed their own pet addictions...which is really idolotry.

Now, your question about why this issue matters to me personally? The problem is biblical authority and the sovereignty of God. When we demand that it is godly and biblical to do something we need to be sure that it is, in fact, godly and biblical to do it. The blanket abstinence policy does not do this. It fails to deal with Scripture fairly, rightly, or responsibly. Alcohol is mentioned numerous times in Scripture and not once does God command us all to abstain from it. In fact, in the OT Law God gives a detailed list of what the Jews were allowed to consume....and no blanket call to avoid all alcohol. In the NT God frees His followers from the dietary laws.

Rom 14:1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.
Rom 14:2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
Rom 14:3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.
Rom 14:4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.
Rom 14:7 For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;
Rom 14:8 for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
Rom 14:10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."
Rom 14:12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. (NASB)




Col 2:15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--
Col 2:17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
Col 2:19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
Col 2:20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
Col 2:21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!"
Col 2:22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)--in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
Col 2:23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence. (NASB)



Legalism and an abuse of Scripture dishonors God and is a huge stumbling block. I would assert it is a bigger issue than me having a good microbrew with my steak.

 

As someone not reformed I'm not seeing any of the items he alluded to as being sinful in of themselves.

People also need to remember Johhny Mac is not a scientist nor biologist, and is sketchy on some of his historical "facts". Bottom line is he is a pastor...not the Baptist Pope. As with his view on LS he is equally wrong concerning alcohol.

 

That is just not so. If one drinks in excess everytime one drinks, then it is not an option, saved or unsaved. I cut it off long before I was saved. It is called common sense.

 

Where did you get the idea of crack cocaine? That definitely wasn't the form it started being used in, which was medicinal. Like alcohol was.

Who am I? Someone who worked as a bartender, has seen one too many ruined lives, has seen one too many car accidents. Someone who has seen too many children follow in their parent's footsteps, read of too many crimes committed by people under the influence, talked to people who had to pick up and start over after escaping a village where the majority had turned alcoholic and the beatings and rapes had to be escaped, someone who is sick and tired of people defending the daily use of alcohol because they either haven't gotten out and seen the reality of what modern alcohol does to humans.

In other words, someone who has seen how devastating alcohol is and has learned that advocating drinking it daily is a load of garbage and something to be ashamed of.

Who are you to defend it? Yeah yeah, I know, you're gonna come back and say "oh, but I'm talking about the MODERATE use of it!" Well, it's addictive. I've heard of NOBODY who picked up a drink with the intention of becoming an alcoholic.

Maybe at one time it was a gift. A way to kill off diseases found in the available water or to be used medicinally, and apparently, during VERY SPECIAL days. Not every day, not every one, and certainly not how it is popularly used today and certainly not how it is being advocated by the opening post.

It is shameful to see a Christian leading others into the temptation of daily alcohol use and trying to justify it with the Holy Bible. It is irresponsible, disgusting...just totally, utterly, undeniably disgusting to advocate the daily use of alcohol and misuse scripture that way.

 

Are you trying to tell us you only saw alcohol always being abused? Moderation led to the things you witnessed?

This is like a sex abuse counselor coming on here telling us to abstain from all sexual activity regardless of what the bible says since they see homes torn apart, women and unborn babies murdered, std's transmitted, etc...and then wagging a finger at those who believe in sexuality the way God intended using Scripture.

The irony is I see those same crimes committed by teetotalers...so using your logic everyone should drink!

 

I have not spoke against what you are saying, if anything is our master over Christ then cut it off. Drinking excess is wrong. Christ says we should do an extreme cut it off. I don't think He is saying literally cut off your hand, but what ever causes you to sin, cut it off. It is the same thing Paul is saying if me eating meat causes my brother to stumle and sin I will never eat meat again. We should be living a life to edify others. It is easy to talk a good Paul, but to live it well that is hard. I tried living under the Law to help a sister and it was hard to live up to her standards of self -righteousness and I had to break up our relationship and told her that she was self-righteous and I will only cause her to stumble.

 

I wasn't talking to you, Lucan one, so get a grip, as you aren't the only one participating here. The poster compared alcohol usage to coffee, so I made the case there is no parallel. Did I use words to big for you? I was also making a case that alcohol usage is different now that in Paul's day. Don't tell me you do not take culture into consideration when you study the bible. You really need to quit being a one trick pony when it comes to gray areas. The bible does not forbid alcohol use in general, nor does it say you have to drink. The bible does say that is should be avoided, or banned, in certain situations. That is also indisputable. As far as I Timothy 4, Paul was talking about apostate preachers, not Christians, so there is a difference. You are treating your brothers as apostates because they don't believe like you.

 

I am most certainly on topic. Both cocaine and alcohol have medicinal and proper uses in moderation.

From your stories, you're the last person on earth who needs to be advocating daily alcohol use. Have you considered that in order to come to grips with what you witnessed, you had to somehow make SOME alcohol drinking okay?

If these were your birth parents, you're likely more genetically inclined to addiction and best off totally staying away from the stuff. Please consider doing so for the safety of your own self and those around you.

It's not a contest of who has the biggest story...it's a case of common sense. It isn't common sense to advocate using alcohol daily and you haven't supported it one whit with scripture.

I can't believe you've gone what you've been through, know what nastiness addiction can cause, yet still would encourage the many, many people who come read here to use alcohol regularly. I sure hope nobody on here takes that terrible advice.

Your words mean something. Is it worth risking the creation of more alcoholics in this world in order for you to win some anonymous internet argument? No, it isn't. That's childish and I hope it stops.