Have a Beer! It may be sinful NOT TO!

[dcorbett]

For someone who says they are a Pastor, you use very sharp derrogatory statements and descriptors when responding. Calling
me a Pharisee and calling me dumb and saying I lack Bible knowledge
is not the manner in which I have been treated by a Pastor ever
before in my 59 years of life. Pastors are leaders of a flock. Do you
talk to your flock like you talked to me?

My father was a Southern Baptist deacon, and he would never drink
a drop of alcohol and didn't condone others doing so. Consumption
of alcohol meant a certain lifestyle to him, and he was right.

Yes, I was raised to consider anything that alters your consciousness as something evil. And one drink alters your consciousness - it is a medical fact.

I have worked in law enforcement for 25 years, and I see the DAILY
ruination of lives because of alcohol. I have not had my head in the sand, as you insinuated.

 

[Luke2427]

For someone who says they are a Pastor, you use very sharp derrogatory statements and descriptors when responding. Calling
me a Pharisee and calling me dumb and saying I lack Bible knowledge
is not the manner in which I have been treated by a Pastor ever
before in my 59 years of life. Pastors are leaders of a flock. Do you
talk to your flock like you talked to me?

My father was a Southern Baptist deacon, and he would never drink
a drop of alcohol and didn't condone others doing so. Consumption
of alcohol meant a certain lifestyle to him, and he was right.

Yes, I was raised to consider anything that alters your consciousness as something evil. And one drink alters your consciousness - it is a medical fact.

I have worked in law enforcement for 25 years, and I see the DAILY
ruination of lives because of alcohol. I have not had my head in the sand, as you insinuated.

You have and this is further proof.

You did not bother to address a single argument of mine.

You TOTALLY ignored the fact that HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of Christians are for the responsible consumption of alcohol.

You totally ignored the fact that the founding fathers and the pilgrims were almost ALL responsible drinkers.

You do not seem to CARE what the Bible says about it when God speaks well of it.

You are bent on condemning that which God and MOST of the history of the Christian church has commended.

You employ anecdotes of the horrors of the abuse of alcohol which is a distraction from the topic of RESPONSIBLE drinking which is what we are ACTUALLY talking about.

Paul said people who have such hang ups are the "weaker brethren" as opposed to those he said "have knowledge".

What am I supposed to conclude about you?

 

[Luke2427]

I have not had my head in the sand, as you insinuated.

I noticed you employ a quote from Thomas Jefferson as your signature.

I thought you might find this interesting:

Jefferson was one of the most knowledgeable wine connoisseurs ever to hold national office. And, he was the wine advisor for Washington, Madison and Monroe. He felt that wine was "...indispensable for my health." He further advocated the virtues of wine stating "no nation is drunken where wine is cheap; and none sober, where the dearness of wine substitutes ardent spirits as the common beverage." (As cited in Insiders Guide to Virginia Wineries)

Jefferson believed that wine stimulated conversation. There must have been quite a bit of talking at Monticello because there are records that he and his guests consumed 1,203 bottles of wine in just over two year's time. (Garr, 1997) Jefferson, though, thought of himself as a man of moderation.

"...you are not to conclude I am a drinker. My measure is a perfectly sober one of 3 or 4 glasses at dinner, and not a drop at any other time. But as to those 3 or 4 glasses I am very fond." (As cited in Garr, 1997)

Jefferson's interests in wine went far beyond just drinking. He was also involved in viticulture. He planted vineyards at Monticello and encourage others to take up the practice. Jefferson's attempts were not successful since the phylloxera louse, which was not discovered until the 1860s, attacked his grapes.

 

[dcorbett]

I quote Jefferson as a patriot - I didn't know he was an alcoholic too.

 

[Bronconagurski]

Paul loved them while calling them WEAK. He loved them when he said there were two groups- those that "HAVE KNOWLEDGE" and those that are "WEAK".

I am saying EXACTLY what Paul said- so if you are going to say Paul was loving while saying the same thing that I am saying- it is kind of inconsistent for you to say I am NOT.

Think these things through, bro, before you post them.

I am talking about the way you treat people on this thread. You basically call them the weaker brother or ignorant, and rake them over the coals. I am not feeling the love, sorry. You can quote Paul all you want, but you don't live up to the man at all. You have put your OP and your need to be right above your brother. You really need to think these through, pal.

 

[Luke2427]

I am talking about the way you treat people on this thread. You basically call them the weaker brother or ignorant, and rake them over the coals. I am not feeling the love, sorry. You can quote Paul all you want, but you don't live up to the man at all. You have put your OP and your need to be right above your brother. You really need to think these through, pal.

Okay
______

 

[convicted1]

Doctrines of Divine Drunkenness

God has, from eternity past, chosen a people out of a fallen race, who will drink the finest alcoholic beverages the land has to offer. These people, the "selects", God will make it so that they will have the finest selection of wines, beers, liquors, malts, etc. They WILL drink, and not of their own will, but of the will of the Father, because He has chosen them thusly.


Those who have been passed over, will never get these "finer" spirits, neither will they ever have a desire to drink them. They, in their already fallen state, will have no desire for them, because God has passed over them. They will have to get by on "skunk beer", and "ripple".


Just kidding. I am trying to lighten the mood seeing that it's get quite contentious on here.

 

[dcorbett]

I am talking about the way you treat people on this thread. You basically call them the weaker brother or ignorant, and rake them over the coals. I am not feeling the love, sorry. You can quote Paul all you want, but you don't live up to the man at all. You have put your OP and your need to be right above your brother. You really need to think these through, pal.

Amen! I sincerely don't believe there are THOUSANDS of Baptists that feel as strongly about being able to drink as he does!! I am having a very hard time wrapping my head around the thought of a Baptist Pastor that fights for alcohol consumption. The two just don't mix! If anyone thinks it does, then the world is INDEED creeping into our pulpits.

 

[Luke2427]

I didn't know

This is the problem with most teetotalers- there is too much that they don't know about the subject. That's WHY they are teetotalers, in my opinion.

Now that does not mean they are stupid people. Not at all. And that is not what I am trying to insinuate, though I might have done so incidentally. For that I apologize.

A person can be very brilliant in MANY areas and be very ignorant in some other areas.

In fact, I am quite certain that is true of every brilliant person.

I am not trying to say you are a stupid person. I do not think that you are.

But I am trying to say that I think teetotalism is an ignorant position. I think that is perfectly fair and appropriate on a debate site.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Amen! I sincerely don't believe there are THOUSANDS of Baptists that feel as strongly about being able to drink as he does!! I am having a very hard time wrapping my head around the thought of a Baptist Pastor that fights for alcohol consumption. The two just don't mix! If anyone thinks it does, then the world is INDEED creeping into our pulpits.

Paul warned that grievous wolves would rise up among us, not sparing the flock.

 

[dcorbett]

I used to drink 8 shots of Hornitos Tequila and spend the night
on the floor next to the toilet.

I am so glad that the Lord forgives us of our sins when we trust Jesus.
I am so done with the demon alcohol.


Praise God that I can stand up for my convictions too! I pray for
more people with backbone to stand up to sin and help
prevent wasted lives. We are not of this world.

 

[Bronconagurski]

Amen! I sincerely don't believe there are THOUSANDS of Baptists that feel as strongly about being able to drink as he does!! I am having a very hard time wrapping my head around the thought of a Baptist Pastor that fights for alcohol consumption. The two just don't mix! If anyone thinks it does, then the world is INDEED creeping into our pulpits.

It seems that Calvanists are all jumping on the wine and cigar bandwagon these days. Maybe it has always been that way, but I have been saved for almost 30 years and I don't remember a time since it was so rampant. Paul did not live in a society where drunk driving was a scourge on society like it is now. How many children have been killed, or lost parents or siblings or other relatives because of drunk drivers. What I find interesting, having been a drinker but now a teetotaler, is that no one ever thinks they are drunk. They always think they can handle it. If Thomas Jefferson had 3 or 4 glasses of wine with supper, then he was buzzed and would be arrested for drunk driving in our day should he get behind a wheel.

 

[Luke2427]

Amen! I sincerely don't believe there are THOUSANDS of Baptists that feel as strongly about being able to drink as he does!! I am having a very hard time wrapping my head around the thought of a Baptist Pastor that fights for alcohol consumption. The two just don't mix! If anyone thinks it does, then the world is INDEED creeping into our pulpits.

Head in the sand, Sis.

That's your condition. I don't see any way around it.

For over 1,800 years, the regular use of wine in the celebration of the Eucharist and in daily life was the virtually universal and undisputed practice in Christianity.[60] During the 19th and early 20th century, as a general sense of prohibitionism arose, many Christians, particularly some Protestants in the United States, came to believe that the Bible prohibited alcohol or that the wisest choice in modern circumstances was for the Christian to abstain from alcohol willingly.

As the Pilgrims set out for America, they brought a considerable amount of alcohol with them for the voyage (more than 28,617 liters = 7,560 gallons),[115] and once settled, they served alcohol at "virtually all functions, including ordinations, funerals, and regular Sabbath meals."[116] M. E. Lender summarizes the "colonists had assimilated alcohol use, based on Old World patterns, into their community lifestyles" and that "[l]ocal brewing began almost as soon as the colonists were safely ashore."[117]

In the history of Christianity, alcoholic prohibition is a relatively new idea. In fact, alcohol was a normal part of life. In Colonial America, the Puritans expected Christians to drink (Hearn, 1943). In the 1700s, a Baptist minister created the formula for bourbon whiskey (Hailey, 1992). During the 1800s, many Southern ministers operated stills, and sold alcohol (Hearn, 1943). Parishioners who owned stills would tithe their alcohol; and preachers' salaries often included whiskey. All this began to change, however, as the Temperance movement took shape (Hailey, 1992).

For Southern Baptists, too, alcohol was a part of life. That is until the Temperance movement began to infiltrate the religious denominations in America. Finally, in 1896, the Southern Baptist Convention officially denounced alcohol and asked that churches excommunicate anyone who sold or drank alcohol. For the first time in Southern Baptist history, drinking was considered immoral. The success of this measure is debatable. A Southern Baptist study has shown that in the 1990s, 46 percent of members drink alcohol (Hailey, 1992).

I love how Independent Fundamental Baptists act like they are standing for old paths when almost everything that they stand for is a relatively NEW thing in the history of Christianity.

It's really hilarious if you think about it!!

But don't let facts get in the way of your misinformed worldview!

 

[Luke2427]

Paul warned that grievous wolves would rise up among us, not sparing the flock.

And one of the characteristics of those wolves would be forbidding things that God does not forbid.

Hmmmmmm........


Sound familiar, Fred?

 

[blackbird]

Head in the sand, Sis.

That's your condition. I don't see any way around it.














But don't let facts get in the way of your misinformed worldview!

You're such a maaaaaaaaan, Luke!!!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh::tear:

 

[Luke2427]

You're such a maaaaaaaaan, Luke!!!!!:laugh::laugh:

I edited that post and apparently you missed the edit.

I also said:

I love how Independent Fundamental Baptists act like they are standing for old paths when almost everything that they stand for is a relatively NEW thing in the history of Christianity.

It's really hilarious if you think about it!!

:thumbs:

 

[Luke2427]

I used to drink 8 shots of Hornitos Tequila and spend the night
on the floor next to the toilet.

I am so glad that the Lord forgives us of our sins when we trust Jesus.
I am so done with the demon alcohol.


Praise God that I can stand up for my convictions too! I pray for
more people with backbone to stand up to sin and help
prevent wasted lives. We are not of this world.

Yea, those wicked pilgrims and puritans and founding fathers and baptists before prohibition and almost all Christians before the middle of the 1800's!!

Wicked evil people!!

We all should join in with Corbet here and stand against them- and apparently we should stand against God too who said he made the wine that makes merry the heart of man and told his people to go and buy strong drink and rejoice before Him!

THAT sounds like a good idea!! ...................... :laugh:

................................. :laugh:

................................. :laugh:

............................ :laugh:

 

[dcorbett]

I am done with this conversation. I have stated many reasons why I don't condone consumption of alcohol, and calling me names or telling me I have
my head in the sand will not change my stance.

I don't see one good thing coming from alcohol usage. Not one.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I am done with this conversation. I have stated many reasons why I don't condone consumption of alcohol, and calling me names or telling me I have
my head in the sand will not change my stance.

I don't see one good thing coming from alcohol usage. Not one.

There may be one good thing, dcorbett.

A healthy heart while the brain cells disappear. It destroys enough brain cells to make the drinker think there is nothing wrong with drinking alcohol.

 

[Luke2427]

I am done with this conversation. I have stated many reasons why I don't condone consumption of alcohol, and calling me names or telling me I have
my head in the sand will not change my stance.

I don't see one good thing coming from alcohol usage. Not one.

One thing's for sure.

You absolutely avoided like the plague addressing ANY arguments to the contrary of your position.

You just talked about alcohol abuse- which was meaningless since NOBODY ON EARTH speaks in favor of ALCOHOL ABUSE.

You talked about not knowing any baptists who supported the responsible consumption of alcohol- I showed you that not only did most baptists but most Christians throughout HISTORY have practiced it- you don't care about the facts. I further pointed out that ON THIS VERY THREAD IN WHICH YOU ARE INVOLVED are SEVERAL baptists who believe the responsible consumption of alcohol is biblical.


So I don't even know why you posted in this thread?