This is snide and insulting and we should expect better from a moderator.
You don't have an argument here- just an insult.
And I'll tell you WHY you don't make an argument- THERE ISN'T ONE.
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Have a Beer! It may be sinful NOT TO!
- Thread starter Luke2427
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This is snide and insulting and we should expect better from a moderator.
You don't have an argument here- just an insult.
And I'll tell you WHY you don't make an argument- THERE ISN'T ONE.
The benefit is very clear to any thoughtful person.
You have no Christian right to speak against something which God does not speak against.
You contradict Christ who commended the responsible consumption of alcoholic beverages throughout his word, who made them himself, who has served them and promises to do so again in heaven, and who drank them to the point that his adversaries called him a 'drunkard'.
This is about Phariseeism.
So it absolutely does deserve to be talked about.
psalms109:31
Active Member
1 Corinthians 8:
13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall.
1 Corinthians 9 :
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.
We can say alcohol is for the stomach and the stomach is for alcohol, and God will destroy them both. We are to honor God with our bodies. If alcohol causes you to stumble or you believe it will cause a brother to stumble and sin. There is nothing wrong with a personal conviction to stay away from it. What matters is we have a good conscience before God. We are not to let anything master us, only Jesus Christ.
It is easy to talk a good Paul, try walking in his shoes.
13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall.
1 Corinthians 9 :
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.
We can say alcohol is for the stomach and the stomach is for alcohol, and God will destroy them both. We are to honor God with our bodies. If alcohol causes you to stumble or you believe it will cause a brother to stumble and sin. There is nothing wrong with a personal conviction to stay away from it. What matters is we have a good conscience before God. We are not to let anything master us, only Jesus Christ.
It is easy to talk a good Paul, try walking in his shoes.
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This is a forum- not a church social.
Nobody is drinking in front of anybody.
We are discussing whether or not it is Scriptural to purport that Christians should abstain from all alcoholic beverages.
But one thing you DO have right- it is the weaker (Paul meant more ignorant) brethren who have the most problems and hang ups about what people eat and drink.
Bronconagurski
New Member
Yeah, but Paul had love for his weaker brother, and all I am hearing from you is contempt. Congrats.
Paul loved them while calling them WEAK. He loved them when he said there were two groups- those that "HAVE KNOWLEDGE" and those that are "WEAK".
I am saying EXACTLY what Paul said- so if you are going to say Paul was loving while saying the same thing that I am saying- it is kind of inconsistent for you to say I am NOT.
Think these things through, bro, before you post them.
psalms109:31
Active Member
1 Corinthians 13:2
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
If they are personally convicted yes they should abstain from all alcoholic beverages. Some people can't drink, because they can't stop and some are very angry drunks. So I go back to what I have already said.
If alcohol causes you to stumble or you believe it will cause a brother to stumble and sin. There is nothing wrong with a personal conviction to stay away from it.
The ignorance becomes sin when it STOPS being personal and you START promoting it.
If you want to believe that that which God said in his own Word he gave to us as a good thing is evil- that's between you and God.
But when you preach that other people ought to believe that nonsense- you've WAY over stepped your boundary.
Paul preached that we ought to be considerate of ignorant Christians (I Cor. 8). But when ignorant Christians took their message on the road- Paul gutted them without mercy (I Tim. 4).
He said on the one hand that he would eat no meat before them while the world stood so long as it was just an ignorant personal conviction. On the other hand he absolutely RIPPED those who PREACH that one should abstain from meats.
So if they want to keep ignorant standards personally- fine. I won't drink in front of them.
But if they promote that mess, like they do on baptistboard, I am honor bound to do with them what Paul did with them.
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psalms109:31
Active Member
That is your personal conviction, people have their reasoning and why they refuse to not drink then they should not do it for the glory of the Lord. We have the right to think about the weak first and there may be some strong Christian with their biggest weakness is alcohol. To be impaired to a point where you are not Christlike then abstain with all your heart, soul, and strength.
You want to drink and have a clear conscience with God then do it.
So you don't give a HOOT about what Paul said, do you?
You could care LESS that the Apostle, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit handled this IDENTICAL situation totally different from the way you advocate, right?
Warm and fuzzy is more important to you than consistency with Scripture?
I resent the thinking that calls that which God gave as a good thing a "beast".
Every Christian SHOULD resent such nonsense.
I resent phariseeism.
Every Christian SHOULD.
I don't begrudge you the right to abstain. There's nothing wrong with that.
But I do condemn any and all preaching against the responsible consumption of alcohol for the same reason that Paul condemned the Judaizers in Galatians and for the same reason that Jesus condemned the Pharisees in the Gospels.
It is preaching for doctrines the traditions of men.
It really is evil- it really is.
I know the people who do it don't know that it is evil- but that does not change the nature of it. Neither did the Pharisees think what they promoted was evil- but it was.
psalms109:31
Active Member
You trying to make a conviction to not drink alcohol not consistent with scripture? So people have to drink alcohol to be consistent with scripture? If something causes me to sin or someone else to sin i will cut it off; This is not for my sake, but for the sake of others.
Did i miss something?
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NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
The title of this thread implies that it may be sinful not to have a beer.
It is not sin not to have a beer as is contended here. It is that simple.
It is not sin not to have a beer as is contended here. It is that simple.
psalms109:31
Active Member
No sir, as usual, things are not as simple as that. Whenever people try to make such blanketing statements and pretend by them that something is that simple, always consider that what MIGHT be simple is the MIND of the person- not the issue they discuss. Sometimes that is the case.
The OP suggests that teetotalism that keeps people from consuming beer that could reduce the risk of heart disease, THE NUMBER ONE KILLER OF MEN, by THIRTY PERCENT- that THAT could VERY WELL BE a sin.
Refusing to do that which may save YOUR LIFE because you want to call that which God commends EVIL- it almost ASSUREDLY IS a SIN.
You're not even making an honest ATTEMPT to represent me and my position honestly.
I could not have said more clearly- I don't suppose there are words that are more clear in MORTAL TONGUE- that I do not begrudge one their personal right not to drink.
I could not have employed words in any language known to man to have been any clearer.
And you turn right around and say I condemn one's right not to drink alcohol.
Now, either you do not read well or you do not care about honesty in debate.
Did you read my post AT ALL???
Are you debating ME or are you just shooting at very flimsy straw men?
Are you going to address the points that I actually made or are you going to just shoot off generic rhetoric that is irrelevant to the discussion we are trying to have?
Are you going to address the point I made about Paul gutting people who preached abstinence from meats- that he was considerate ONLY AS LONG AS THOSE IGNORANT CHRISTIANS KEPT THEIR IGNORANCE TO THEMSELVES but that he was FIERCE AGAINST THEM WHEN THEY PREACHED THAT STUPIDITY T
THERS?Are you even going to address what I actually say?
How many Baptists support drinking? I don't know any that do. I know some that drink "in the closet", so to speak, but they do other things
to defile their bodies too....
I guess its just where you are in your spiritual growth - if you desire
to follow God's will, and His purpose, knowing that your body is a
temple, and your life is a clear glass window.
Almost sounds like you are espousing drinking as a lifestyle.
to defile their bodies too....
I guess its just where you are in your spiritual growth - if you desire
to follow God's will, and His purpose, knowing that your body is a
temple, and your life is a clear glass window.
Almost sounds like you are espousing drinking as a lifestyle.
Before the advent of prohibition almost ALL baptists drank.
A whole BUNCH of baptists on this VERY BOARD support responsible drinking. Have you had your head buried in the sand?
For 1800 years almost ALL Christians who had access to it drank.
Teetotalism is an ignorance hic-up in Christian history, in my opinion. Kind of like tongues.
Hundreds of millions of Christians drink all over the world. Outside of America which has been ravaged by the Phariseeism of prohibition a hundred to a hundred and fifty years ago, you don't find many Christians who oppose the responsible consumption of alcohol.
I think you have to be pretty isolated to think what you purport in your post here.
You have to be pretty isolated from Christian history.
You have to be pretty isolated from Christianity throughout the world at present.
There are 500 million Protestants on earth today (including the SBC). A very small portion of them are teetotalers.
The Pilgrims drank a great deal. They brought it over by the 55 gallon drum on the Mayflower.
Most, if not all, of our Christian founding fathers drank responsibly.
Before a hundred years ago 99% of Christians would have found the notion of teetotalism laughable.
That percentage will return within a generation or two.
God is for drinking responsibly. He said so in no uncertain terms in His word. To oppose what he is for is pretty dumb in my opinion.
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