Are teetotalers killing people?

[Luke2427]

I just shared an article where studies show that drinking a PINT of beer a day may reduce the risk of heart disease which is the NUMBER ONE KILLER OF MEN by THIRTY PERCENT.

Now, teetotaler preachers keep many ignorant people from ever doing such a thing. Most intelligent people could not be persuaded to believe the bible condemns the responsible consumption of alcohol.

So if a man may NOT have had the heart attack that killed him if he had not been persuaded by teetotalers to avoid all alcohol at all costs- are teetotalers responsible IN PART for his death?

And if THOUSANDS die every year because they were persuaded to be teetotalers by ignorant preachers- are teetotalers responsible, at least in PART, for the premature deaths of thousands?

Things that make you go, HMMMMMMMmmmmmmmm....

 

[OldRegular]

I just shared an article where studies show that drinking a PINT of beer a day may reduce the risk of heart disease which is the NUMBER ONE KILLER OF MEN by THIRTY PERCENT.

Now, teetotaler preachers keep many ignorant people from ever doing such a thing. Most intelligent people could not be persuaded to believe the bible condemns the responsible consumption of alcohol.

So if a man may NOT have had the heart attack that killed him if he had not been persuaded by teetotalers to avoid all alcohol at all costs- are teetotalers responsible IN PART for his death?

And if THOUSANDS die every year because they were persuaded to be teetotalers by ignorant preachers- are teetotalers responsible, at least in PART, for the premature deaths of thousands?

Things that make you go, HMMMMMMMmmmmmmmm....

Teetotalers may or may not kill people. I haven't seen much evidence that preachers who counsel abstinence have much affect on the propensity of people to consume alcohol. So I would have to say NO teetotaler preachers don't kill people. I offer my own state of South Carolina which has a lot of Southern Baptists as an example..

It is a fact that drunks kill people.

 

[dcorbett]

Drunks kill people. They also beat up wives, abuse children,
wreck cars, change lives.


I was married to an alcoholic. So I am going to leave it there.

 

[Luke2427]

Teetotalers may or may not kill people. I haven't seen much evidence that preachers who counsel abstinence have much affect on the propensity of people to consume alcohol. So I would have to say NO teetotaler preachers don't kill people. I offer my own state of South Carolina which has a lot of Southern Baptists as an example..

It is a fact that drunks kill people.

Not as many people as heart disease- not by a country mile.

And EVERYBODY on baptistboard condemns drunkenness.

But there are hundreds of millions of people who drink regularly who are not drunkards- who drink for most of their lives and never kill ANYBODY- hundreds of MILLIONS of people.

These are the people we are talking about- not drunkards.

 

[Bronconagurski]

I just shared an article where studies show that drinking a PINT of beer a day may reduce the risk of heart disease which is the NUMBER ONE KILLER OF MEN by THIRTY PERCENT.

Now, teetotaler preachers keep many ignorant people from ever doing such a thing. Most intelligent people could not be persuaded to believe the bible condemns the responsible consumption of alcohol.

So if a man may NOT have had the heart attack that killed him if he had not been persuaded by teetotalers to avoid all alcohol at all costs- are teetotalers responsible IN PART for his death?

And if THOUSANDS die every year because they were persuaded to be teetotalers by ignorant preachers- are teetotalers responsible, at least in PART, for the premature deaths of thousands?

Things that make you go, HMMMMMMMmmmmmmmm....

Teetotalers may or may not be killing people, but we know for sure that drunk drivers kill people every hour of the day. Sad but true.

 

[Luke2427]

Drunks kill people. They also beat up wives, abuse children,
wreck cars, change lives.


I was married to an alcoholic. So I am going to leave it there.

I was raised by drunkards and I could give you some horror stories. My Dad died a drunkard. I signed the paper work to unhook life support.

But I don't let horror stories of drunkenness that I have personally lived rob me of my brains. Feelings, even strong ones, shouldn't make us stupid.

Condemn what the Bible condemns- drunkenness.

But don't condemn what the Bible condones- responsible drinking.

They are as far apart as adultery and the marriage bed.

 

[Luke2427]

Teetotalers may or may not be killing people, but we know for sure that drunk drivers kill people every hour of the day. Sad but true.

Not as many as heart disease- not by a country mile!

And a pint of beer a day, according to people who make a living doing such studies and thus almost CERTAINLY know more about it than you and I, staves off heart disease BY THIRTY PERCENT!!


And EVERYBODY CONDEMNS drunkenness on baptistboard.

Drunkenness and Drinking Responsibly are as far apart from one another as child molestation and marital relations.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I just shared an article where studies show that drinking a PINT of beer a day may reduce the risk of heart disease which is the NUMBER ONE KILLER OF MEN by THIRTY PERCENT.

Now, teetotaler preachers keep many ignorant people from ever doing such a thing. Most intelligent people could not be persuaded to believe the bible condemns the responsible consumption of alcohol.

So if a man may NOT have had the heart attack that killed him if he had not been persuaded by teetotalers to avoid all alcohol at all costs- are teetotalers responsible IN PART for his death?

And if THOUSANDS die every year because they were persuaded to be teetotalers by ignorant preachers- are teetotalers responsible, at least in PART, for the premature deaths of thousands?

I'd rather eat dark chocolate. It is good for the heart also. No one ever beat their wife from being drunk on dark chocolate. In fact, research has shown that chocolate makes the brain 'happy'.

 

[Luke2427]

I'd rather eat dark chocolate. It is good for the heart also. No one ever beat their wife from being drunk on dark chocolate. In fact, research has shown that chocolate makes the brain 'happy'.

No one ever beat their wife from drinking responsibly, either. That's what we are talking about- not drunkenness. EVERYBODY on bb condemns drunkenness.

But there is as much difference between drunkenness and drinking responsibly as there is between a great reservoir which controls water to bless a city and a burst reservoir which drowns and kills a city.

Equivocation between the two is ignorant in my opinion.

 

[Crabtownboy]

No one ever beat their wife from drinking responsibly, either. That's what we are talking about- not drunkenness. EVERYBODY on bb condemns drunkenness.

But there is as much difference between drunkenness and drinking responsibly as there is between a great reservoir which controls water to bless a city and a burst reservoir which drowns and kills a city.

Equivocation between the two is ignorant in my opinion.

In our modern world, at least in the developed countries, there is no need to drink alcohol at all. It has been shown that even a small amount of alcohol kills some brain cells as alcohol thickens the blood. That is why people become drunk, lack of oxygen to the brain. That to me is a sin in and of itself.

But as far as helping the heart it would be much better if people ate responsible and did not become overweight. Being overweight and obese kills far more people than drinking a beer will save.

I do not drink, not just because of philosophical reasons, but also and primarily because I cannot stand the taste of alcohol.

If a person never drank there would be no alcoholics. There are people who are prone to become alcoholics and drink a beer a day will lead to abuse. A bit of dark chocolate would be much better for them.

 

[convicted1]

Brother CTB advoctates dark chocolate, and Brother Luke advocates beer to help heart ailments. I just had this picture of dark chocolate AND beer....EWWWWWWW!!! *******shutters at that thought***** :laugh:

 

[Luke2427]

In our modern world, at least in the developed countries, there is no need to drink alcohol at all.

Wrong. The stats I provided did not come from a third world country. They came from the civilized world. And the stats said that drinking a pint of beer a day helps reduce the risk of heart disease, THE NUMBER ONE KILLER OF MEN, by THIRTY PERCENT.

It has been shown that even a small amount of alcohol kills some brain cells as alcohol thickens the blood. That is why people become drunk, lack of oxygen to the brain. That to me is a sin in and of itself.

That's bogus. Brain cells, just like all cells, die every day. What you have to prove is that drinking alcohol not only kills cells but that it causes damage. Killing some cells and causing meaningful damage are two totally different things.

But as far as helping the heart it would be much better if people ate responsible and did not become overweight. Being overweight and obese kills far more people than drinking a beer will save.

MILLIONS of skinny people have heart disease. Should they go on a diet?

I do not drink, not just because of philosophical reasons, but also and primarily because I cannot stand the taste of alcohol.

If a person never drank there would be no alcoholics.

If a person never drove he would never be in a car accident.

If a person never met a girl he would never commit fornication.

If a person never ate food he would never become a glutton.

If a person never left the house he would never be killed in his front yard.

If a person never entered the house he would never be killed by the house falling on him.

This is a RIDICULOUS line of reasoning.

It is not biblical. I think it is pharisaical. God said that his people should go and buy strong drink. God said that he made the wine that makes MERRY the heart of man.

God gave it to us to enjoy. It is really problematic when you call evil that which God calls good.

There are people who are prone to become alcoholics and drink a beer a day will lead to abuse.

I don't think so. There may be 1 in a billion who are as you describe. But NOBODY comes from a family with a longer line of alcoholics than me. I'm not tempted in the least to become a drunkard.

HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of people the world over drink very regularly and are not alcoholics.

This is a bogus argument, in my opinion.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Extreme views on either side of this discussion do very little to encourage serious debate.

Teetotalers killing people? Seriously, if a person watches their diet and gets regular exercise they are not going to die because they do or don't drink a pint of beer a day.

To use a quote in this thread - 'This is a RIDICULOUS line of reasoning.'

 

[Crabtownboy]

Wrong. The stats I provided did not come from a third world country. They came from the civilized world. And the stats said that drinking a pint of beer a day helps reduce the risk of heart disease, THE NUMBER ONE KILLER OF MEN, by THIRTY PERCENT.

You misread. I simply said there is no reason a person needs to drink alcohol. A better diet would cut down significantly on heart attacks.

That's bogus. Brain cells, just like all cells, die every day. What you have to prove is that drinking alcohol not only kills cells but that it causes damage. Killing some cells and causing meaningful damage are two totally different things.

Perhaps kill was too strong a word. But alcohol does:

alcohol disrupts brain function in adults by damaging message-carrying dendrites on neurons in the cerebellum, a structure involved in learning and motor coordination. This reduces communication between neurons, alters their structure and causes some of the impairment associated with intoxication. It does not kill off entire cells, however.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/23/health/23real.html

MILLIONS of skinny people have heart disease. Should they go on a diet?

Percentage wise not nearly as many as those who are overweight and obese.




It is not biblical. I think it is pharisaical. God said that his people should go and buy strong drink. God said that he made the wine that makes MERRY the heart of man.

God gave it to us to enjoy. It is really problematic when you call evil that which God calls good.

I don't think so. There may be 1 in a billion who are as you describe. But NOBODY comes from a family with a longer line of alcoholics than me. I'm not tempted in the least to become a drunkard.

HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of people the world over drink very regularly and are not alcoholics.

This is a bogus argument, in my opinion.

I find it amazing the way you defend a habit that can cause so much trouble. I guess you were predestined to defend the indefensible. :laugh:

 

[dcorbett]

Condemn what the Bible condemns- drunkenness.

But don't condemn what the Bible condones- responsible drinking.

They are as far apart as adultery and the marriage bed.

I have yet to see one good thing come from drinking alcohol.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

What helps the heart may hurt the brain

 

[Winman]

I can't believe a pastor would advise folks to drink and tell them it is a sin not to drink. Wow.

My younger brother followed your advice, he drank two or three beers every day. He died from a heart attack at age 53.

 

[Tom Bryant]

So are you trying to justify your drinking? If you don't feel anything is wrong with it, why not just do it rather than trying to talk people into it?

Or maybe you just just bought corona stock and want to protect your investment? :tongue3:

 

[convicted1]

1 Timothy 3

3:1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

Here are the guidlines given by Apostle Paul. There is some delineation(sp?) between what a Bishop/Pastor can do, and what a Deacon can do. Apparently, anyone who is an overseer of a flock is to abstain from alcohol consumption.


And Apostle Paul reaffirms this here:

Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

 

[12strings]

Dark chocolate could become an addiction...or gluttony...better abstain.

There are several older ladies at my church who drink a half-glass of wine frequently because their doctor advised it...one lady said she doesn't even like it...but does it anyway!

-->However, drinking alchohol is also not commanded in scripture, and so if we hold to the sufficiency of scripture, we cannot call abstaining a sin. (I assume Luke is being facetious in his statements here...but if not, he is committing the same error he accuses teetotalers of making.

-->However, there is good that has come from drinking alchohol: Namely, The return by many who were once legalists to an approach to scripture that says we will not call something sinful that the scripture does not call sinful (Sufficiency of scripture). There are many things God says are sinful...we don't need to add sins...whether its abstaining or drinking.