Poll: Who of these four people is really saved?

[Michael Wrenn]

The point is that if anyone is saved they are saved the very same way - the Biblical way. God saves many within denominations who do not teach the Biblical way but He does it IN SPITE OF THAT!

However, for a person to claim they are "saved" when they have no testimony of any salvation experience whatsoever but claim they have ALWAYS been saved is a complete denial of any consciousness experience of a lost condition and therefore a complete absence of any TESTIMONY of salvation whatsoever.

I cannot tell you the day, hour or month when I was saved but boy I can tell you about the experience and when and where it occurred and I was raised in a Christian family from birth.

So, how would you assess my case then? I know for certain that I am saved.

 

[Wittenberger]

So, how would you assess my case then? I know for certain that I am saved.

You didn't ask my opinion by I'll give it:

If you confess Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead then you ARE saved. You are a Christian.

Don't let anyone add anymore to that verse than what came from the very mouth of God Himself!

 

[The Biblicist]

You didn't ask my opinion by I'll give it:

If you confess Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead then you ARE saved. You are a Christian.

Don't let anyone add anymore to that verse than what came from the very mouth of God Himself!

So, say the right words and presto you are saved?

So, saying the right words means they are confessing the same thing in MEANING as demanded by Scriptural context???

I know Mormons who can make that profession! I know JW's who make that profession! Are they saved too? Indeed, NEARLY every member of Christian cults make that same profession. Ask a Mormon if he believes in his heart in Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead and they will confess it. Ask any JW the same and he will profess it.

Have you ever read 1 Cor. 12:3? The texts says no man can call Jesus Lord but by the Spirit! However, I can pay a drunk to call him Lord? So do you think it is merely a matter of RIGHT verbage? If so, you are sorely mistaken.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

You didn't ask my opinion by I'll give it:

If you confess Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead then you ARE saved. You are a Christian.

Don't let anyone add anymore to that verse than what came from the very mouth of God Himself!

That is also my own assessment of my own case.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

So, say the right words and presto you are saved?

So, saying the right words means they are confessing the same thing in MEANING as demanded by Scriptural context???

I know Mormons who can make that profession! I know JW's who make that profession! Are they saved too? Indeed, NEARLY every member of Christian cults make that same profession. Ask a Mormon if he believes in his heart in Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead and they will confess it. Ask any JW the same and he will profess it.

Have you ever read 1 Cor. 12:3? The texts says no man can call Jesus Lord but by the Spirit! However, I can pay a drunk to call him Lord? So do you think it is merely a matter of RIGHT verbage? If so, you are sorely mistaken.

It is not a matter of right words with me.

 

[The Biblicist]

It is not a matter of right words with me.

Then why tell others that? What you said is exactly if I had simply quoted 1 Cor. 12:3 and said don't let anyone fool you, anyone who can claim Jesus is Lord is speaking by the Spirit of God. That is a lie but that is basically what you did with your statement about professing such words.

In both cases the person must not merely say the words but understand the Biblical content of those words or it means nothing.

JW's Mormon's, Roman Catholics have no clue about making that profession and neither does ANYONE who theologically denies the Bibical meaning of those words.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Then why tell others that? What you said is exactly if I had simply quoted 1 Cor. 12:3 and said don't let anyone fool you, anyone who can claim Jesus is Lord is speaking by the Spirit of God. That is a lie but that is basically what you did with your statement about professing such words.

In both cases the person must not merely say the words but understand the Biblical content of those words or it means nothing.

JW's Mormon's, Roman Catholics have no clue about making that profession and neither does ANYONE who theologically denies the Bibical meaning of those words.

I understand the Biblical content, but believe what you want about me.

 

[The Biblicist]

I understand the Biblical content, but believe what you want about me.

I don't recall ever responding to your request to make a personal assessment of you and your personal salvation status.

 

[Wittenberger]

So, say the right words and presto you are saved?

So, saying the right words means they are confessing the same thing in MEANING as demanded by Scriptural context???

I know Mormons who can make that profession! I know JW's who make that profession! Are they saved too? Indeed, NEARLY every member of Christian cults make that same profession. Ask a Mormon if he believes in his heart in Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead and they will confess it. Ask any JW the same and he will profess it.

Have you ever read 1 Cor. 12:3? The texts says no man can call Jesus Lord but by the Spirit! However, I can pay a drunk to call him Lord? So do you think it is merely a matter of RIGHT verbage? If so, you are sorely mistaken.

Brother, God said it, I didn't. If you don't like it, you will need to take it up with Him.

 

[The Biblicist]

Brother, God said it, I didn't. If you don't like it, you will need to take it up with Him.

God said 1 Cor. 12:3 also! Hence, according to your irrational response anyone merely says "Jesus is Lord" is speaking by the Spirit. Now you are being irrational and evasive of the facts. Can't admit you are wrong when it is utterly glaring that you were wrong and are wrong by any objective standard of measurement. God has to grant repentance also.

 

[Wittenberger]

So, say the right words and presto you are saved?

So, saying the right words means they are confessing the same thing in MEANING as demanded by Scriptural context???

I know Mormons who can make that profession! I know JW's who make that profession! Are they saved too? Indeed, NEARLY every member of Christian cults make that same profession. Ask a Mormon if he believes in his heart in Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead and they will confess it. Ask any JW the same and he will profess it.

Have you ever read 1 Cor. 12:3? The texts says no man can call Jesus Lord but by the Spirit! However, I can pay a drunk to call him Lord? So do you think it is merely a matter of RIGHT verbage? If so, you are sorely mistaken.

Only God knows if your "confession of him as Lord" is genuine or not.

I never tell another person that they are not saved, even Mormons and JW's. I point them to what I believe the Truth is, but I let God decide who is and who is not saved.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Only God knows if your "confession of him as Lord" is genuine or not.

I never tell another person that they are not saved, even Mormons and JW's. I point them to what I believe the Truth is, but I let God decide who is and who is not saved.

Thank you.

 

[The Biblicist]

Only God knows if your "confession of him as Lord" is genuine or not.

I never tell another person that they are not saved, even Mormons and JW's. I point them to what I believe the Truth is, but I let God decide who is and who is not saved.

Hence, you beleive one cannot be known by his fruits? It is their doctrine that defines the meaning of the words they use. So you don't believe the doctrine of JW's has any relationship to their professions? Does your doctrine have any bearing on the meaning of your words you speak?

Pretty shallow rationale don't you think?

 

[Wittenberger]

Hence, you beleive one cannot be known by his fruits? It is their doctrine that defines the meaning of the words they use. So you don't believe the doctrine of JW's has any relationship to their professions? Does your doctrine have any bearing on the meaning of your words you speak?

Pretty shallow rationale don't you think?

Again, brother, take it up with our Heavenly Father. He is the One who said it, not me.

 

[The Biblicist]

Again, brother, take it up with our Heavenly Father. He is the One who said it, not me.

Here is absolute proof you are not sincere about seeking truth.

If you cannot admit you are wrong here you will never admit it about anything you believe.

It is self-evident that mere repetition of words even when the Biblical text says " that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost" cannot possibly MEAN that mere verbalization is proof they are speaking by the Holy Spirit!

However, that is the identical rationale behind your assertion that if any man profess that they believe in their heart that God raised Christ up from the dead they are genuinely saved due to that profession!

It is self-evident that neither are true unless the appropriate Biblical MEANING is understood and attached to those words.

To deny that the appropriate meaning CANNOT be ascertained by their soteriological understanding and expression is just as silly.

So what is the point in continuing any discussion with someone so irrational and unwilling to even admit to truth even when it is staring them in the face so obviously??????

No point! Goodbye!

 

[Wittenberger]

Here is absolute proof you are not sincere about seeking truth.

If you cannot admit you are wrong here you will never admit it about anything you believe.

It is self-evident that mere repetition of words even when the Biblical text says " that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost" cannot possibly MEAN that mere verbalization is proof they are speaking by the Holy Spirit!

However, that is the identical rationale behind your assertion that if any man profess that they believe in their heart that God raised Christ up from the dead they are genuinely saved due to that profession!

It is self-evident that neither are true unless the appropriate Biblical MEANING is understood and attached to those words.

To deny that the appropriate meaning CANNOT be ascertained by their soteriological understanding and expression is just as silly.

So what is the point in continuing any discussion with someone so irrational and unwilling to even admit to truth even when it is staring them in the face so obviously??????

No point! Goodbye!

Brother Biblicist, calm down. You are going to blow a gasket.

Just saying the right words will not save you. Your "confession of Jesus as Lord" MUST be genuine in order to be saved. However, neither you nor I can see into another man's heart. That is God's job.

 

[The Biblicist]

Just saying the right words will not save you.

That is exactly the reverse of what you have been alleging! You have been alleging that anyone who SAYS "I believe in Christ and that God raised him from the dead" must be recognized as a saved person.

However, neither you nor I can see into another man's heart. That is God's job.

Don't need to, just ask him what does he mean! Unless he is a liar he will tell you! Hence, you judge a confession on the basis of how HE DEFINES IT by his own soteriology.

Can JW soteriology confirm such a profession as real? Does Mormon? Does Catholic? No! If they affirm that soteriology meaning is what they embraced when they made that profession then they are as lost now as then.

 

[Wittenberger]

That is exactly the reverse of what you have been alleging! You have been alleging that anyone who SAYS "I believe in Christ and that God raised him from the dead" must be recognized as a saved person.





Don't need to, just ask him what does he mean! Unless he is a liar he will tell you! Hence, you judge a confession on the basis of how HE DEFINES IT by his own soteriology.

Can JW soteriology confirm such a profession as real? Does Mormon? Does Catholic? No! If they affirm that soteriology meaning is what they embraced when they made that profession then they are as lost now as then.

Brother, if you feel God leads you to condemn other professing Christians who do not agree with you as "unsaved", I can't stop you.

For me, I'm going to share the Gospel and leave the condemning to God.

 

[Yeshua1]

Brother, if you feel God leads you to condemn other professing Christians who do not agree with you as "unsaved", I can't stop you.

For me, I'm going to share the Gospel and leave the condemning to God.

Think it all comes back to professing in what though as being what saved us?

 

[The Biblicist]

Brother, if you feel God leads you to condemn other professing Christians who do not agree with you as "unsaved", I can't stop you.

For me, I'm going to share the Gospel and leave the condemning to God.

Another ignorant false charge! I condemned no one personally! I condemned the false soterilogy and called it what it is and those who propagate it are teaching and preaching a false gospel. There individual salvation is condemned only if their soteriology is the basis for it. Sorry, but that is the Biblical facts. You are simply propagating a soterioloyg of FEELINGS rather than Biblical facts.

I dare you to find one statement I made that was personally directed to any specific individual where I said they are lost and going to hell! You can't do it because I never said it. So you are slandering me by charging that to me.

You are a hypocrit because you would deny that the soteriology of Mormonism saves anyone and can't possibly be the basis for salvation for anyone. That is precisely what I have said about the CATHOLIC SYSTEM of soteriology - it is another gospel, a false gospel and it cannot save anyone and whoever claims that false gospel is the basis of their personal profession is simply condemning themselves.