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Justified before saved !
- Thread starter savedbymercy
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savedbymercy
New Member
In the Mind of God !
The religious people of our time have shown profound irreverence to God, as though, when something in the Mind of God means nothing to them, as though what's in His Mind as True cannot be True unless its true in the minds of his creatures, reducing God to their levels, which is blasphemy !
However in the Mind and Purpose of God, the Lord Jesus Christ was the lamb Slain from the foundation of the World Rev 13:8
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
This is not saying that He was literally slain in time from the foundation, but that He was slain in the Mind and Eternal Purpose of God from the foundation of the World !
You see God the Father constituted His Son as an Surety of the Covenant, the Everlasting Covenant before the world began. He was designated a substitute and redeemer before the world began, and as such God in His own Mind looked upon His Son as having been slain, put to death for the Sins of His Elect from Eternity. This was prefigured with Abraham and Isaac. Even though Abraham did not literally put his son to death, he certainly had purposed to do so in his mind ! This purpose was so real that it was said that he received his son back from the dead ! Heb 11:19
19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Abraham looked at his son as good as dead, and believed that God could raise him from the dead to establish His earlier promises regarding him !
And so, The Father looked at His own beloved Son as already scarified for His Sheep from everlasting, according to the agreement in the Everlasting Covenant , when Christ became Surety !
Its dishonoring to God to despise and treat with contempt that which He See's as real and complete in His Mind, because it was not so in the minds of His creatures..
The religious people of our time have shown profound irreverence to God, as though, when something in the Mind of God means nothing to them, as though what's in His Mind as True cannot be True unless its true in the minds of his creatures, reducing God to their levels, which is blasphemy !
However in the Mind and Purpose of God, the Lord Jesus Christ was the lamb Slain from the foundation of the World Rev 13:8
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
This is not saying that He was literally slain in time from the foundation, but that He was slain in the Mind and Eternal Purpose of God from the foundation of the World !
You see God the Father constituted His Son as an Surety of the Covenant, the Everlasting Covenant before the world began. He was designated a substitute and redeemer before the world began, and as such God in His own Mind looked upon His Son as having been slain, put to death for the Sins of His Elect from Eternity. This was prefigured with Abraham and Isaac. Even though Abraham did not literally put his son to death, he certainly had purposed to do so in his mind ! This purpose was so real that it was said that he received his son back from the dead ! Heb 11:19
19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Abraham looked at his son as good as dead, and believed that God could raise him from the dead to establish His earlier promises regarding him !
And so, The Father looked at His own beloved Son as already scarified for His Sheep from everlasting, according to the agreement in the Everlasting Covenant , when Christ became Surety !
Its dishonoring to God to despise and treat with contempt that which He See's as real and complete in His Mind, because it was not so in the minds of His creatures..
Complete absolute ignorance! The mind of man has nothing to do with what is in the mind of God but until what is in the mind of God is executed by the will and power of God it is not fulfilled or existent in TIME and space.
Go learn what Isaiah 46:11b means as you have no clue!
Nor was it FULFILLED in God's mind! Go learn what Isaiah 46:11b means!
Purpose is one thing but accomplishment is quite another thing. Purpose cannot replace accomplishment because if that were true then accomplishment is unnecessary. The fact that Christ came and died demands that merely PURPOSE IN THE MIND OF GOD was not sufficient.
You are speaking as one who is ignorant and the sad thing is you are completley incapable of being taught truth.
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
What kind of statement is that ? It certainly does when man is being enlightened to what God's Mind is on a matter.
God's Mind has been Satisfied by the Eternal Engagements of His Son in behalf of all those Chosen in Him.
Now, the mind of those so blessed does not know that until God is so pleased to reveal that by His Spirit.
1 Cor 2:9-12
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
One of those things freely given the Elect is Justification before God based upon Christ's Finish Work Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
What kind of statement is that ? It certainly does when man is being enlightened to what God's Mind is on a matter.
God's Mind has been Satisfied by the Eternal Engagements of His Son in behalf of all those Chosen in Him.
Now, the mind of those so blessed does not know that until God is so pleased to reveal that by His Spirit.
1 Cor 2:9-12
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
One of those things freely given the Elect is Justification before God based upon Christ's Finish Work Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
It is not the MIND of God that redeems/saves/justifies/regenerates or glorifies but the Mind of God sovereignly imposed upon time and space in ACTION that does.
The MENTAL state of God prior to creation obtains NOTHING no more than a PLAN means NOTHING without implementation. The eternal covenant does not satisfy redemption before God! The covenant satisfies nothing but God's purpose to redeem. It is his soverign implementation of that covenant that actually satisifes redemption in his sight.
The truth is that God's eternal purpose provides the secure basis for the promise of redemption only because He sovereignly determines to execute it in time and space. To separate God's Purpose from His sovereing execution is the playground of fools but that is precisely your position. Go learn Isaian 46:11!
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savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Who said it was ? Thats a rabbit trail response. God Justified the elect by His Grace because of the redemption that was in Christ Jesus. Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Thats not a known fact to anyone until it is revealed to them by God's Spirit.
But God knows it, He knew it before the Foundation Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Those whose names were written in the Book of Life before the foundation were Justified by Christ's Death at that time.
Christ had not yet died then, granted, but their sins and condemnation were then imputed to Him as their Surety, so they never had sin and condemnation legally charged to them, 2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
So they were Justified before God ,in His Mind, before the foundation of the World premised on the Future Work and Covenantal Death of Christ !
Thats what Abel believed also !
Who said it was ? Thats a rabbit trail response. God Justified the elect by His Grace because of the redemption that was in Christ Jesus. Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Thats not a known fact to anyone until it is revealed to them by God's Spirit.
But God knows it, He knew it before the Foundation Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Those whose names were written in the Book of Life before the foundation were Justified by Christ's Death at that time.
Christ had not yet died then, granted, but their sins and condemnation were then imputed to Him as their Surety, so they never had sin and condemnation legally charged to them, 2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
So they were Justified before God ,in His Mind, before the foundation of the World premised on the Future Work and Covenantal Death of Christ !
Thats what Abel believed also !
Stop jerking a text out of context - finish the thought given by Paul:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
The subject introduced is justfication BY FAITH not justification by the cross APART from faith. That idea is your heresy!
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Nah, you reject the Truth within the context !
Nah, you reject the Truth within the context !
This is the best response you are capable of! ZERO response to the very context placed in front of your face.
You can't understand that Romans 3:24 INTRODUCES the subject which is EXPLAINED by Romans 3:25-5:2 and that subject is clearly and repeatedly stated to be justification "BY FAITH."
Not ONCE in this context do we read justification by "eternal purpose" or by the cross or by his blood APART FROM faith - NOT ONCE!
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Absolutely, you are the one rejecting the Truth found in the context !
Absolutely, you are the one rejecting the Truth found in the context !
Ignorance is your response??? Again, Romans 3:24 is the INTRODUCTION while Romans 3:25-5:2 is the EXPLANATION and anyone capable of reading can see the EXPLANATION is clearly and repeatedly about justification BY FAITH. NOT ONE WORD about eternal justification by eternal purpose in this explanation! NOT ONE WORD about justification by grace, blood, cross APART FROM faith in this explanation - NOT ONE WORD!
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
You can call it what you like, I stand on a firm foundation, the scripture. The Elect, before they are born sinners, and while they are sinners and enemies in and of themselves are Justified before God, freely by His Grace, by the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, simply meaning, by His death and the merits thereof. Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled[justified] to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
You can call it what you like, I stand on a firm foundation, the scripture. The Elect, before they are born sinners, and while they are sinners and enemies in and of themselves are Justified before God, freely by His Grace, by the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, simply meaning, by His death and the merits thereof. Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled[justified] to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Both of the above texts are simply jerked out of their context and interpreted by you to be something different and separate from what the context defines them. So it is with all false doctrines - prooftexts jerked out of contexts.
We have already placed these texts back into their proper context and shewed they have NOTHING to do with your perverted doctrines. There is no such Biblical doctrine as eternal justification by eternal purpose separated from applied justification by faith. There is no such Biblical doctrine as justfiication by the blood/cross of Christ apart from justification by faith.
Purpose without application is stupidity on steroids as it is irrational.
Provision without application is oxymoronic and that is precisely the sum of your false interpretations of these and many other scriptures teaches.
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Both Truthes are found in their respective contexts and you reject them in unbelief !
Both Truthes are found in their respective contexts and you reject them in unbelief !
You simply ASSERT this but fail to deal with the evidence that it is you that has misinterpreted these texts. Again, Romans 3:24 INTRODUCES the subject while Romans 3:25-5:2 EXPLAINS that introduction and it is ALL about justification BY FAITH. You cannot overturn this fact and that is why you are forced merely to make empty and ignorant assertions.
I challenge you to find the term "justification" or "justified" in Romans 3:24-5:11 that is not contextually identified with and defined by "faith"! You cannot do it EXCEPT by cherry picking a text and JERKING it out of its context.
Just like Romans 4:8 is contextually restricted to the time and place when Abraham was "IN UNCIRCUMCISION" as the immediate context demands (Rom. 4:9-10) and thus refers to justification BY FAITH rather than at the cross or in eternity as you clumsily and inaccurately jerk Romans 4:8 out of its context in order to force it into your false mold.
Si when ewere you justified before God, and when you received jesus by personal faith in Him and his work on the Cross?
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Yeah Right. You reject the clear Truth taught in the Text. Justification before God by the Grace of God, premised solely on Christ's Death or The Redemption it effects before God's Law and Justice ! Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Yeah Right. You reject the clear Truth taught in the Text. Justification before God by the Grace of God, premised solely on Christ's Death or The Redemption it effects before God's Law and Justice ! Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Again, you jerk this text out of its context when verses 25-5:2 restrict this statement within the context and application with faith. Just continuing reading:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
This is so obvious that one must be blind in one eye and cannot see out of the other eye OR so completely immersed in false doctrine they refuse to acknowledge what the context demands.
You are the latter.
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
You are rejecting a plain truth within the context !
You are rejecting a plain truth within the context !
This is a debate forum and yet you refuse to deal with the evidence I placed in front of your eyes. You are wrong and you know it and so all you can do is ignore the contextual evidence and merely repeat words that are empty and vain.