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Justified before saved !

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
No I am giving you the Truth which you reject and are incapable of proving wrong.

You can repeat the above mantra until death and hell are cast into the "lake of fire" but you are spewing a lie. The following Scripture show that justification occurs in time, not eternity past!

Romans 5:1. Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Nonexistent people, elect or not, do not have faith!

The Apostle tells us further:

Romans 4:25. Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Now Jesus Christ was raised after He died and was buried.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You can repeat the above mantra until death and hell are cast into the "lake of fire" but you are spewing a lie. The following Scripture show that justification occurs in time, not eternity past!

Justified freely on the basis of the death of jesus upon the Cross, but NOT applied towards us until received by us!
 

savedbymercy

New Member
or

You can repeat the above mantra until death and hell are cast into the "lake of fire" but you are spewing a lie

I am going to keep repeating it since you are not able to disprove it, but only reject it !

Romans 5:1. Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Nonexistent people, elect or not, do not have faith!

The Apostle tells us further:

Romans 4:25. Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Now Jesus Christ was raised after He died and was buried.

Not one of those verses state that the Elect were not Justified in Eternity past, you cannot read !
 
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OldRegular

Well-Known Member
or



I am going to keep repeating it since you are not able to disprove it, but only reject it !



Not one of those verses state that the Elect were not Justified in Eternity past, you cannot read !

I assume you know what "future tense" is so I will present the following Scripture:

Galatians 3:8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Galatians 3:24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Now I realize that presenting Scripture to you is similar to casting pearls before swine or slopping the hogs but!!!!!!!:thumbs:
 

savedbymercy

New Member
I assume you know what "future tense" is so I will present the following Scripture:

Galatians 3:8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Galatians 3:24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Now I realize that presenting Scripture to you is similar to casting pearls before swine or slopping the hogs but!!!!!!!:thumbs:

I agree with both Gal 3:8 and Gal 3:24, but they do not say anything about the Elect not being Justified before the Word began !
 

savedbymercy

New Member
Eternal Justification by the Purpose, Decree of God !

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

It cannot be plainer than this, That according to the Truth of the Everlasting Gospel, all the Elect of God were Saved, Justified, Given Grace in Christ before the World began, according to His OWN Purpose !

What is this Purpose ? First the scripture says according to HIS OWN PURPOSE, Pertaining to Himself, so this purpose takes place first and foremost within God's ownself ! Also the word purpose means here determination and the idea of decree is associated with this set purpose or determination.

Its also the foundation of God's Predestination as in Eph 1:11

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

In Justification, this Eternal Purpose or Decree, this Determination within God Himself, God never appointed the Elect to Wrath, but to obtain Salvation ! So consequently within the Eternal Decree or Purpose of God the Elect were Justified from all sin before the World Began ! They were saved by the Purpose and Grace of God before the World Began, which is the foundation for their Call and Faith and Justification in Time Rom 8:28-29

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

According to this Eternal Purpose God did Justify them before Himself by Non Imputation Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

This Justification by God of the Elect had nothing to do with their faith in time, but His Purpose Given them before Time ! 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
 

The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Your belief in eternal justification is false.

As I said, SBM lacks spiritual discernment and is willfully blind. He cannot see the most simpliest things in scripture.

God said, "I have purposed it, I WILL do it" and yet SBM cannot understand that purpose does not equal fulfillment.

The whole context of Romans 3:24-5:20 is placed in TIME and Abraham is the illustration of justification in TIME and yet he jerks scriptures out of this TIME context, isolates them from the rest of the context and makes up a false doctrine.

He believes He is God as he sits in judgement upon others that do not believe HIS interpretations as absolute truth and believes himself to be infallible in regard to his interpertations and is incapable of receiving correction.
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
As I said, SBM lacks spiritual discernment and is willfully blind. He cannot see the most simpliest things in scripture.

God said, "I have purposed it, I WILL do it" and yet SBM cannot understand that purpose does not equal fulfillment.

The whole context of Romans 3:24-5:20 is placed in TIME and Abraham is the illustration of justification in TIME and yet he jerks scriptures out of this TIME context, isolates them from the rest of the context and makes up a false doctrine.

He believes He is God as he sits in judgement upon others that do not believe HIS interpretations as absolute truth and believes himself to be infallible in regard to his interpertations and is incapable of receiving correction.
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

savedbymercy

New Member
the bib

God said, "I have purposed it, I WILL do it" and yet SBM cannot understand that purpose does not equal fulfillment.

Ps 50:21

21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
As I said, SBM lacks spiritual discernment and is willfully blind. He cannot see the most simpliest things in scripture.

God said, "I have purposed it, I WILL do it" and yet SBM cannot understand that purpose does not equal fulfillment.

The whole context of Romans 3:24-5:20 is placed in TIME and Abraham is the illustration of justification in TIME and yet he jerks scriptures out of this TIME context, isolates them from the rest of the context and makes up a false doctrine.

He believes He is God as he sits in judgement upon others that do not believe HIS interpretations as absolute truth and believes himself to be infallible in regard to his interpertations and is incapable of receiving correction.

Are you implying that the following accurately describes sbm?
Bro.Greg

You fail to understand that the pope has been replaced as the sole arbiter of the inerrant Word of God in all of God's creation by a coup d'état! So who is next?
 

The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
the bib



Ps 50:21

21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

Oh brother! Do you have a problem reading! Isaiah 46:11 is not a comparison between God and man but it is God distinguishing his eternal purpose with its yet unfulfilled completion - read it again!

According to your logic God is a schizophrenic!

You are a pantheist plain and simple and thus teach another God, another Christ, another gospel by another spirit.
 

savedbymercy

New Member
Oh brother! Do you have a problem reading! Isaiah 46:11 is not a comparison between God and man but it is God distinguishing his eternal purpose with its yet unfulfilled completion - read it again!

According to your logic God is a schizophrenic!

You are a pantheist plain and simple and thus teach another God, another Christ, another gospel by another spirit.

I know you demonstrate that you put God down to the level of His Creatures in Time !

Ps 50:21

21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

In some of my previous posts I have explained to you the difference between God who is Eternal and Man who is temporal, but you choose to ignore it, so my answer to you is Ps 50:21 everytime !
 

The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I know you demonstrate that you put God down to the level of His Creatures in Time !

Ps 50:21

21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

In some of my previous posts I have explained to you the difference between God who is Eternal and Man who is temporal, but you choose to ignore it, so my answer to you is Ps 50:21 everytime !

Do you have a problem reading or reading comprehension? It seems that way. Why can't you read and comprehend that it is God who is speaking about his own purpose in Isaiah 46:11 and not me or some man?????? It is God who says that his purpose needs yet to be fulfilled in Isaiah 46:11 NOT ME or some man! I did not write that! I simply quoted it! What is it that you don't understand about Isaiah 46:11 that you continue to confuse Psalm 50:21 with it???????

Are you so dishonest that you can't even be fair with the scriptures being quoted??? How can you apply Psalm:50:21 to Isaiah 46:11 when it is GOD who is speaking about his own purpose?? It is God who does not equate His purpose to be equal to fulfillment as he says "I have purposed it, I WILL DO IT". God does not say as your theory demands "I HAVE DONE IT"

Try being honest for a change!
 

savedbymercy

New Member
In teaching the Justification of the Elect before Faith, even before the World Began, it is not a denial of the condemnation and guilt of Adam's sin their natural head, which condemnation the scripture teacheth here Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

That word condemnation is a very strong word ,it is the greek word katakrima and means:

damnatory sentence, condemnation

Its used twice more here Rom 5:16 and Rom 8:1

We do not deny this condemnation incurred by the Elect in their natural head Adam, however, God because of a previous Covenant Engagement before the World began, with the Surety of the Elect, God, instead of charging the Elect with that their condemnation Rom 5:18, instead had charged it upon Christ ! Yes, that damnatory sentence of Eternal Death was laid charge to Christ's Account due to the previous stipulations of the Everlasting Covenant.

You see, if that condemnation of the elect was not real, then there would have been no reason for Christ to have had their sins imputed to Him, and the Gospel fact is according to Paul 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

If the damnatory sentence the Elect incurred was not real and factual, then Christ's Death would be null and void, because His Death was the consequence of their damnatory sentence laid to His Charge instead of theirs. In fact the word for in 1 Cor 15:3 is the greek prep hyper and means:


in behalf of, for the sake of

And so Christ died in behalf of our sins, that damnatory sentence we deserved to die for eternally, instead, Christ died in our behalf !

So the Justification of the Elect before Faith, is not because of condemnation was not merited by them, but because the merited condemnation Rom 5:18 was not laid to their charge 2 Cor 5:19; Rom 4:8 !

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

That blessed man is each one Christ died in behalf of !
 

savedbymercy

New Member
To deny Eternal Justification of the Elect before God is a flat out denial of the Gospel, which Gospel is nothing short of Preaching the Everlasting and New Covenant, and the denial lies in this:

Its a denial of the purpose and agreement and Surety-Ship of Christ before the beginning of the World, which is the whole foundation of Eternal Justification of the Chosen in Christ before God Eph 1:4. It also denies God's Eternal act of setting apart or sanctification of the Elect which Jude alludes to here Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Now for Jude to write this statement in the opening of a letter that is regarding our common Salvation and The Faith delivered unto the Saints vs 3

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Then it is feasible that they have heard the blessed Truth before i in the Gospel of being in the Eternal Decree of the Father Sanctified or set apart, that would be in their Eternal Election Eph 1:3-4 !

This setting apart of the Father from Election in Christ does ensure, make certain the application of Christ's Righteousness in Time by New Birth, this Eternal Act is the very substance of Eternal Justification, deny this, you become an Enemy of the Gospel !
 

savedbymercy

New Member
When one is Justified by Faith in time, it is when God has made known to them the Mystery of His Will or Decree of their Eternal Justification, it is then they are being made consciously aware of God's Justifying sentence, that was from Eternity due to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11 and that Eternal Compact or Agreement in the Everlasting Covenant between the Father and Son, the Spirit bearing witness, for God makes the Covenant known to Spiritual Faith 2 Sam 23:5

Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

Ps 25:14

14 The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

So being Justified by Faith in Time is nothing less than being made known to us our Eternal Interest in God's Eternal Covenant with His Son, and our interest in the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20, and this was before being revealed to us a Mystery of God's Will Eph 1:7-9

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Thats Justification by Faith !
 

savedbymercy

New Member
Christ Resurrection and Justification !



Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Justification by or at the resurrection of Jesus Christ, those who are most ignorant of the accomplishment of Christ's Death, that it did in fact Justify those He died for, they are guilty of denying the very witness of the Resurrection of Christ ! Let me explain, The Life and Death of Christ has fulfilled God's Law in its entirety, all of its Holy Requirements, Obedience to all of its precepts, and even Death for its Transgression, so all for whom He died is Justified by His Death ! Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Now what does knowledge here mean in context of the subject of the verse ? Many believe that it refers to the knowledge of the one being Justified by Christ's Death, their Faith ! Even though I can see that, yet the verse says by His Knowledge, that is by the Knowledge of the Righteous Servant shall He Justify many ! This Knowledge must be connected somehow to His Death. The word for knowledge here is the Hebrew Word da`ath and means:


knowledge

a) knowledge, perception, skill

b) discernment, understanding, wisdom

This word is derived from the Hebrew Word yada which means:


to know by experience

So its by His experience with Death or by His Tasting of Death Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

The word taste here is the greek word geuomai and means:


to taste, to try the flavour of

2) to taste

a) i.e. perceive the flavour of, partake of, enjoy

b) to feel, make trial of, experience

3) to take food, eat, to take nourishment, eat

So by His Experiencing Death, experiencing its flavor, by it He Justified many, because He bare their sin, again pointing to His Death !

GWT He will see and be satisfied because of his suffering. My righteous servant will acquit many people because of what he has learned [through suffering]. He will carry their sins as a burden.

This Translation compares to what the Writer of Hebrews Wrote here Heb 5:8

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

The word learned here means:

to learn, be apprised

a) to increase one's knowledge, to be increased in knowledge

b) to hear, be informed

c) to learn by use and practice

1) to be in the habit of, accustomed to

So, Isa 53:11 is a clear proclamation that the Death of Christ alone, made those whom sins He bare Justified before God !

And so their Justification here is not their Justification by Faith, which will occur at a later time,because the promise is " The Just [or Justified] shall live by Faith.

Now that we know from scripture that we were Justified by His Death, that is what His Resurrection Proves Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences [ He bare our Sins Isa 53:11], and was raised again for[Because of ] our justification.

The Resurrection of Christ is God's Testimony public ally that those Christ died for, bare their sins, that they were Justified, and faith shall later receive the Testimony of God !

So to say that one for whom Christ died was not solely Justified before God by Christ's Death, is to Call God a Liar and the Resurrection a Liar !
 

savedbymercy

New Member
When one is Justified by Faith in time, it is when God has made known to them the Mystery of His Will or Decree of their Eternal Justification, it is then they are being made consciously aware of God's Justifying sentence, that was from Eternity due to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11 and that Eternal Compact or Agreement in the Everlasting Covenant between the Father and Son, the Spirit bearing witness, for God makes the Covenant known to Spiritual Faith 2 Sam 23:5

Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

Ps 25:14

14 The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

So being Justified by Faith in Time is nothing less than being made known to us our Eternal Interest in God's Eternal Covenant with His Son, and our interest in the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20, and this was before being revealed to us a Mystery of God's Will Eph 1:7-9

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Thats Justification by Faith !

Eternal Justification is a act of Justification before God, an Eternal Act of God, whereby He does not impute sin upon all for whom Christ will die, hence, discharging them from all guilt and condemnation solely premised upon Christ's Promise to Perform the Covenant obligations for them in Time !

So, before the Mind of God, The Performance of dying for the sins of the Elect was performed, by Promise Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Thats why even from the beginning of His Public Ministry, The Father's Testimony of Him was this Matt 3:17

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Thats because of His Promised Covenant Engagement which did culminate in His Death !

The Father was no more Pleased for the accomplishment of Christ's sacrifice after His Death as He was before it and even when He Covenanted it before the World began !
 

savedbymercy

New Member
The contractural agreement !



The contractual agreement between the Father and the Son, the covenant of peace, this agreement forbade the Father to charge His Elect with condemnation and sin upon their transgressing in Time, yes they would sin indeed in Adam, but because of the Everlasting Covenant, their condemnation for their sin could not be laid to their charge, simply because the agreement was , when they sin and became indebted to God's Law and Justice, that the charge would not be imputed to them, but to Christ their Surety, leaving them therefore Justified from all sin by non imputation Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

The elect were discharged based upon the Promise of the Surety to in time, the fullness of time to be exact, to die for their sins !

The Father could only [covenant agreement] look for payment for their sins from the death of Christ vs 34

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Christ was even before His Incarnation on the Right Hand of God as their Surety, that is the Glory He had with the Father before the World Began Jn 17:5

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
 

savedbymercy

New Member
It is God that justifieth Not Faith !



Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

This scripture is very clear as to who Justifies, it is God's act first and foremost, and it was conceived in His Mind from Eternity , and when that act is finally terminated on the elect sinners conscious, it is Justification by Faith Rom 5:1. However , for it to ever come to be Justification by Faith in time, it had to be conceived first as Justification from Eternity by Him that conceived it originally ! God never laid to charge to the Elect, their condemnation due to their sin, that began their Justification before Him in Eternity !
 
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