Reconciled while enemies 2

[The Biblicist]

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

See, the Wrath of God cannot abide on any for whom Christ died, because for them, His Wrath has been appeased solely by the Blood of Christ !

Again legal basis is not legal application. The blood shed at the altar must be applied or sprinkled on the rest of the tabernacle. Until the blood is applied to the rest of the tabernacle nothing is redeemed, justified and sanctified. The blood shed at the brazen altar has not justified what it has not been applied to.

The blood shed at the altar provides the High Priest with the legal basis/provision to justify everything God has purposed for it to justify but until it is applied NOTHING is legally justified, redeemed, or sanctified by that blood. Without the ministry of reconciliation there is no actual reconciliation.

To say it another way, "without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin" - Christ provided this objectively. However, without application of the blood to the individual there is no remission of that individul's sins - The Holy Spirit provides this subjectively and personally.

Objective justification and subjective justification are not one and the same. The first provides the legal basis for justification of God's people while the latter actuallly secures their justification.

 

[DHK]

See, the Wrath of God cannot abide on any for whom Christ died, because for them, His Wrath has been appeased solely by the Blood of Christ !

Now clearly the only difference from one group being reconciled to God while being enemies, and another group being under God's Wrath and Condemnation while being enemies, the only difference is the Death of Christ ! If this cannot be acknowledged then we are against Christ, against His Death, against His Blood, and The Accomplishments of it before the Law and Justice of God for those He died for !

The wrath of God abides on all: elect and non-elect alike. The "elect" do not become elected until they voluntarily receive the gift of eternal life. Until that point they are just as "unelected" as the "non-elect" themselves.

For by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves.
It (salvation) is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

The wrath of God abides on all

Thats a Lie ! Scripture says those who Christ died for has been reconciled to God, even while they are enemies ! Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The word reconciled here means:

to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)

b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour

Now those whom Christ died, have been received into God's Favor while being enemies, so its impossible for them to be under God's wrath.

Thats saying Christ's death had no effect on God !

 

[billwald]

How can God hate his elect?????????????

 

[The Biblicist]

dhk



Thats a Lie ! Scripture says those who Christ died for has been reconciled to God, even while they are enemies ! Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The word reconciled here means:

to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)

b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour

Now those whom Christ died, have been received into God's Favor while being enemies, so its impossible for them to be under God's wrath.

Thats saying Christ's death had no effect on God !

Your doctrine of atonement begins and ends at the altar. Biblical atonement necessarily includes both the sacrificial blood at the altar as well as its application to what it was actually shed for. One without the other makes the atonement incomplete. The alter provided the legal basis but it did not provide actual application. It was the Preist that took the blood from the base of the altar and then with a branch of hysop actually applied it to what it had been shed for.


The shedding of blood by a qualified sacrifice on the altar satisfied what God demanded as a suitable sacrifice for sin (Isa. 53:11) but it did not satisfy God's wrath against sin until it was directly and specifically applied to the very object being atoned for.

You cannot divorce the shed blood from the application to what the blood was shed for but that is exactly what you do. Just as you separate the purpose of God from the implementation of that purpose (Isa. 46:11). So you resultant doctrine is a PERVERSION of God's Word where you are always pitting ONE TRUTH against ANOTHER TRUTH and thus PERVERTING the real truth of atonement, of justification, of salvation.

 

[DHK]

dhk



Thats a Lie ! Scripture says those who Christ died for has been reconciled to God, even while they are enemies ! Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The word reconciled here means:

to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)

b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour

Now those whom Christ died, have been received into God's Favor while being enemies, so its impossible for them to be under God's wrath.

Thats saying Christ's death had no effect on God !

The gift I purchased for my child had no benefit whatsoever unless my child first received it. If he did not receive it, it could be lying in the attic collecting dust and eventually thrown out; of no value to him at all.

The inheritance laid up for my children will be of no value unless the heir actually comes forward to receive it.

There is an inheritance laid up for the elect in heaven. It is useless and of no value unless "the elect" first step up to the plate and receive it. There is no other way around this stepping stone. It must be received by faith. Otherwise that "elect" is simply a wolf in sheep's clothing.

 

[billwald]

>The inheritance laid up for my children will be of no value unless the heir actually comes forward to receive it.

Legally title passes when you die. Your children may formally reject it but until they do the IRS will consider it theirs and they will have to declare it on their income tax after your estate is settled.

 

[savedbymercy]

The gift I purchased for my child had no benefit whatsoever unless my child first received it. If he did not receive it, it could be lying in the attic collecting dust and eventually thrown out; of no value to him at all.

The inheritance laid up for my children will be of no value unless the heir actually comes forward to receive it.

There is an inheritance laid up for the elect in heaven. It is useless and of no value unless "the elect" first step up to the plate and receive it. There is no other way around this stepping stone. It must be received by faith. Otherwise that "elect" is simply a wolf in sheep's clothing.

We not talking about you or what you did. The post is about what Christ's Death did, it reconciled those to God He died for while they were enemies.

The word reconciled means:

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The word reconciled here means:

to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)

b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour

Now those whom Christ died, have been received into God's Favor while being enemies, so its impossible for them to be under God's wrath.
Thats saying Christ's death had no effect on God !

 

[DHK]

>The inheritance laid up for my children will be of no value unless the heir actually comes forward to receive it.

Legally title passes when you die. Your children may formally reject it but until they do the IRS will consider it theirs and they will have to declare it on their income tax after your estate is settled.

Not where I live. The inheritance is tax free. The executor settles the estate and the estate pays the taxes before the inheritance. The heir is free to reject, accept, give it away, etc. He does not have to receive his inheritance. There is no law that says he must receive his inheritance. I live in a different country than you do.

 

[DHK]

We not talking about you or what you did. The post is about what Christ's Death did, it reconciled those to God He died for while they were enemies.

The word reconciled means:

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The word reconciled here means:

to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)

b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour

Now those whom Christ died, have been received into God's Favor while being enemies, so its impossible for them to be under God's wrath.
Thats saying Christ's death had no effect on God !

Reconciliation is a two way street. When God reconciled Adam and Eve to himself there had to be a willingness on their part. They had to be willing to receive the coats of skin made from an animal whose blood was shed. Israel had to be willing to bring to bring blood sacrifices. God didn't want empty and vain sacrifices. He would only accept those that were brought with the right heart attitude. But a sacrifice was required nevertheless. The sacrifice has been given in Christ. It has been received by the Father. Now the offer of salvation is there to be received or rejected to all to whom it is offered, which is all. They have the option of rejection or receiving. In the Lord's omniscience He knows what will be done.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

Reconciliation is a two way street.

Thats right, however you dismissing one of the ways God established reconciliation. One aspect of it. is that while being enemies ,unbelievers, those Christ died for are still reconciled to God, they are put into God's Favor.

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Do you reject the Truth here that those Christ died for are reconciled to God by His Death alone, even while they are being enemies ?

 

[The Biblicist]

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

He does not say "before we were born" we were reconciled but "WHEN" we were enemies. This is another way of describing our condition as being "ungodly" at the point of justification by faith (Rom. 4:5). That point of time when we were justified by faith in Romans 4:5 was "when" Abraham was "in uncirumcision" (v. 10) rather than BEFORE HIS BIRTH.

This is why Paul goes on to say "BEING reconciled" (Rom. 5:10) because there is a point IN OUR LIFE TIME "we received the atonement [lit. reconciliation] - v. 11 and we continue in that position of reconciliation from that point forward.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

we were reconciled but "WHEN" we were enemies.

Thats right, while unbelievers ! So its impossible for them to be under God's Wrath when they were unbelievers or enemies as these Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

In this scripture, the wrath of God is abiding on them. Its in the present tense !

But now those in Rom 5:10 while they were being enemies [present tense], they were reconciled to God [second aorist passive] BY HIS DEATH !

So evidently we have Two different groups of enemies and Unbelievers, one group benefits from the Death of Christ, and obviously the other group did not !

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



Thats right, while unbelievers !

Hence, they were not reconciled at the time of the cross but "WHEN" refers to their PRESENT LIFE and in particular the precise POINT IN TIME "when" they "received" reconciliation by faith (Rom. 5:11). He is contrasting the POINT in time they "received" reconciliaiton as "enemies" with their present condition "BEING reconciled" (Rom. 5:10).

He is saying nothing different than in Romans 4:5! AT THE POINT of justification by faith they were "UNGODLY" and/or "ENEMIES" when they were reconciled by faith - when they "received" reconciliation (Rom. 5:11).

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

Hence, they were not reconciled at the time of the cross but "WHEN" refers to their PRESENT LIFE

They were reconciled to God by non imputation of sin upon them for one 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

That occured first anf foremost in the Everlasting Covenant when Christ agreed to be Their Surety, that was before the World began !

 

[savedbymercy]

Those that Christ died for, while they were being enemies, unbelievers, they were reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So how could they ever have been under God's Wrath while being unbelievers as these are Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

He is saying nothing different than in Romans 4:5! AT THE POINT of justification by faith they were "UNGODLY" and/or "ENEMIES" when they were reconciled by faith - when they "received" reconciliation (Rom. 5:11).

This is a lie here. They were reconciled to God , while being enemies, before they received the atonement !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

In fact they were experientially lost, and at the same time reconciled to God !

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



They were reconciled to God by non imputation of sin upon them for one 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

That occured first anf foremost in the Everlasting Covenant when Christ agreed to be Their Surety, that was before the World began !

You are not able to distinguish between God's Eternal Purpose and the implementation of that purpose (Isa. 46:11). In your mind "purpose" equals fulfillment but that makes "predestination" utterly senseless.

Again, Christ furnished the LEGAL BASIS for justification/sanctification/regeneration/glorification upon the cross but the cross did not furnish the LEGAL APPLICATION as that was the work of the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, regeneration and justification are not the obedience made possible by the Spirit but the elect are passive in these CHANGED CONDITIONS of the elect by the Holy Spirit (unless you believe obedience by the elect is responsible for regeneration?).

Both Romans 5:10-11 and Romans 4:5-10 speak of the very same exact point in time "when" the elect are justified by faith and received the atonement as "ungodly" or "enemies." That is their CONDITION of their own person at the point of justification proving that justification is not based upon personal merit, that they are not justified due to their deserving personal condition but in spite of their personal condition and due only to the grace of God and the righteousness provided by Jesus Christ finalized by his resurrection which they receive by faith alone.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

You are not able to distinguish between God's Eternal Purpose and the implementation of that purpose (Isa. 46:11). In your mind "purpose" equals fulfillment but that makes "predestination" utterly senseless.

I can discern between your lies and the Truth of scripture, that is for sure. Those whom Christ died for are reconciled to God by His Death while they are being enemies, unbelievers ! Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

In fact they reconciled to God before they are saved by Christ's Life which is New Birth being applied to them !

This exposes your antichrist views regarding the worth of Christ's Death apart from the Work of the Spirit in application.

Its has so much worth that those He died for, while they are unbelievers and enemies they are accepted into God's Favor whereas those who Christ did not die for, in their unbelief they are under God's condemnation and wrath and shall never, never, see life ! Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[Yeshua1]

the bib



I can discern between your lies and the Truth of scripture, that is for sure. Those whom Christ died for are reconciled to God by His Death while they are being enemies, unbelievers ! Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

In fact they reconciled to God before they are saved by Christ's Life which is New Birth being applied to them !

This exposes your antichrist views regarding the worth of Christ's Death apart from the Work of the Spirit in application.

Its has so much worth that those He died for, while they are unbelievers and enemies they are accepted into God's Favor whereas those who Christ did not die for, in their unbelief they are under God's condemnation and wrath and shall never, never, see life ! Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

A person CANNOT be reconciled back to God until they are his sons, that is by New Birth, when faith placed unto Christ!