The Blood covenant....so much more...

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1. The Bible commands us to be content with what we have. Hebrews 3:5: “Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.”

2. The Apostle Peter had to say to a poor beggar that he didn’t even have any money to give him (Acts 3:6). Surely Peter wasn’t lying. He actually had no money!

3. If the Apostle Paul was saying that we should be physically, financially rich, then he miserably failed to practice what he preached. Paul himself was an extremely physically poor man (Paul says that he didn’t even have proper food and clothing a lot of times, and that he was homeless; see 1 Cor. 4:11). If Paul meant that we should all be financially rich because Jesus became poor, why wasn’t he rich? Why was he so poor? And why did he suffer so much (as he says a few chapters later in 2 Cor. 11:23-28).

 

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AWAKEN: Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth." (3 John 1:2)

God said He wants us to prosper!

AWAKEN, I'm going to say this as kindly, but firmly as I can:

1. Taking this verse to teach that God has said he wants us to prosper financially, and has actually promised to prosper us if only we ask in faith for financial prosperity, is a demonstrable error that completely ignores the context and intent of the author.

2. If you truly believe that God has promised financial prosperity and health to all his children, you are headed for a life of disappointment and frustration, of soul-searching in yourself for some sin that must have caused your hardship, and frustration with God when he allows you to remain in a difficult financial or health situation for longer than you would like. We disagree on exact expressions of manifestations of the Spirit, and that's fine...but on this issue and you really need to go back and look at the lives of some Biblical characters and historic Christians to see that Following God faithfully simply DOES NOT equal financial prosperity, or even good health. You are by implication saying that American Christians are the most faithful, because we are the most prosperous, and you are saying by implication that those Christians in Haiti and Zimbabwe must not trust God, or they would be better provided for.

 

[awaken]

1. The Bible commands us to be content with what we have. Hebrews 3:5: “Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.”

2. The Apostle Peter had to say to a poor beggar that he didn’t even have any money to give him (Acts 3:6). Surely Peter wasn’t lying. He actually had no money!

But what did Peter give him...healing so that he could physically work now!

3. If the Apostle Paul was saying that we should be physically, financially rich, then he miserably failed to practice what he preached. Paul himself was an extremely physically poor man (Paul says that he didn’t even have proper food and clothing a lot of times, and that he was homeless; see 1 Cor. 4:11). If Paul meant that we should all be financially rich because Jesus became poor, why wasn’t he rich? Why was he so poor? And why did he suffer so much (as he says a few chapters later in 2 Cor. 11:23-28).

His needs were met...and he helped others, right? If you will go back and read my definition of prosperity..it is not a get rich mentality!

ONe more thing about Paul...Paul was a chosen vessel unto the Lord, to bear His name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel. God said he would suffer for His names sake. This was Pauls calling!

Other than the apostles...can you see where God wants you to do without?
Don't you see where he wants to bless us so we can bless others?

 

[DHK]

But what did Peter give him...healing so that he could physically work now!

His needs were met...and he helped others, right? If you will go back and read my definition of prosperity..it is not a get rich mentality!

ONe more thing about Paul...Paul was a chosen vessel unto the Lord, to bear His name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel. God said he would suffer for His names sake. This was Pauls calling!

Other than the apostles...can you see where God wants you to do without?
Don't you see where he wants to bless us so we can bless others?

Can you see:
"Timothy take a little wine for thy stomach sake and for thine oft infirmities."
--Timothy was often sick, probably from impure water or water related ailments, so common around the world.

"Trophimus have I left sick at Miletus.
--Paul was unable to heal him either.

Philippians 2:25 Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants.
26 For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick.
27 For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.
--Paul was unable to heal Epaphroditus. He remained sick for some time. In fact he almost died from his sickness causing much sorrow among the believers.

According to Galatians, the Lord never did heal Paul's infirmity of poor eyesight.

What is the saying that Jesus gave:
Physician heal thyself.
Paul was unable to heal himself, and unable to heal all these others as well.

 

[awaken]

Can you see:
"Timothy take a little wine for thy stomach sake and for thine oft infirmities."
--Timothy was often sick, probably from impure water or water related ailments, so common around the world.

"Trophimus have I left sick at Miletus.
--Paul was unable to heal him either.

Philippians 2:25 Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants.
26 For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick.
27 For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.
--Paul was unable to heal Epaphroditus. He remained sick for some time. In fact he almost died from his sickness causing much sorrow among the believers.

According to Galatians, the Lord never did heal Paul's infirmity of poor eyesight.

What is the saying that Jesus gave:
Physician heal thyself.

Paul told Timothy to drink wine and not just water, because Timothy was experiencing frequent stomach illnesses (1 Timothy 5:23). Based on this verse, people sometimes claim that Paul couldn't heal Timothy, as if Paul was "losing" his ability to heal people. But clearly Paul was writing to Timothy. Paul was nowhere near Timothy and couldn't have laid hands on Timothy even if he wanted to! Notice that Timothy didn't have an "illness" (singular), but instead he had several illnesses (plural). Since he had "frequent illnesses" (plural), this shows that in some way his stomach illnesses were healed each time. This verse doesn't support the idea that healing was "dying out" in the first century.

 

[awaken]

According to Galatians, the Lord never did heal Paul's infirmity of poor eyesight.

I thought this was addressed already..

Sometimes people use Galatians 6:11 to demonstrate that Paul had an eye condition which was never healed. However, when Paul referred to "how large a letter" (KJV) or "what large letters" (NIV) in Galatians 6:11, we really can't say for sure what he meant. It's possible that he wrote in large letters for emphasis, such as when we use bold letters for emphasis. It's also possible that his eyes were getting weak with age, so he needed to write in large letters. Another possibility is that he simply had poor handwriting. Or perhaps he was referring to the length of his letter to the Galatians. Galatians 6:11 doesn't prove that Paul had an eye condition which was never healed.

Notice that Paul said he had a "bodily ailment" (which is sometimes assumed to be an eye problem) when he first visited Galatia:
Galatians 4:13-15 (AMP): "you know that it was on account of a bodily ailment that [I remained and] preached the Gospel to you the first time. And [yet], although my physical condition was [such] a trial to you, you did not regard it with contempt ... For I bear witness that you would have torn out your own eyes and have given them to me [to replace mine], if that were possible."
The NIV uses the word "illness" in this passage, but the Greek word literally means "feebleness (of body or mind); by implication malady; moral frailty: - disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness." (Strong's Greek Dictionary). What was this infirmity of the flesh or this bodily ailment? Acts 14:19-20 tells us that when Paul and Barnabas were in Lystra, the crowd stoned Paul and left him for dead. The next day, Paul and Barnabas went to Derbe, which was in the southern part of Galatia (according to Eerdman's Atlas of the Bible):
Acts 14:19-20: "Then some Jews came from Antioch and Iconium and won the crowd over. They stoned Paul and dragged him outside the city, thinking he was dead. But after the disciples had gathered around him, he got up and went back into the city. The next day he and Barnabas left for Derbe."
This infirmity from the stoning was the reason why Paul preached the Gospel in Galatia for the first time (Galatians 4:13-15). Consider that Paul both preached and practiced healing, and not once did he ever tell anyone to patiently endure their sicknesses, nor did he ever say that he himself was patiently enduring any infirmity. If Paul's eyes were wounded during the stoning, they apparently were healed because he never listed any eye problems among the sufferings which he had received for the sake of the Gospel.

Again, the New Testament does not teach that an "Age of Miracles" will come to an end in the first century.

 

[awaken]

AWAKEN, I'm going to say this as kindly, but firmly as I can:

1. Taking this verse to teach that God has said he wants us to prosper financially, and has actually promised to prosper us if only we ask in faith for financial prosperity, is a demonstrable error that completely ignores the context and intent of the author.

2. If you truly believe that God has promised financial prosperity and health to all his children, you are headed for a life of disappointment and frustration, of soul-searching in yourself for some sin that must have caused your hardship, and frustration with God when he allows you to remain in a difficult financial or health situation for longer than you would like. We disagree on exact expressions of manifestations of the Spirit, and that's fine...but on this issue and you really need to go back and look at the lives of some Biblical characters and historic Christians to see that Following God faithfully simply DOES NOT equal financial prosperity, or even good health. You are by implication saying that American Christians are the most faithful, because we are the most prosperous, and you are saying by implication that those Christians in Haiti and Zimbabwe must not trust God, or they would be better provided for.

I just noticed this...I thought you just pm me this. I answered this in the pm??

 

[awaken]

What is the saying that Jesus gave:
Physician heal thyself.
Paul was unable to heal himself, and unable to heal all these others as well.

What are you referring to with "Physician heal thyself"..that was in Luke 4 when he was teaching in Nazareth. He said they would say that to Him (Jesus).

 

[DHK]

I thought this was addressed already..

Sometimes people use Galatians 6:11 to demonstrate that Paul had an eye condition which was never healed. However, when Paul referred to "how large a letter" (KJV) or "what large letters" (NIV) in Galatians 6:11, we really can't say for sure what he meant. It's possible that he wrote in large letters for emphasis, such as when we use bold letters for emphasis. It's also possible that his eyes were getting weak with age, so he needed to write in large letters. Another possibility is that he simply had poor handwriting. Or perhaps he was referring to the length of his letter to the Galatians. Galatians 6:11 doesn't prove that Paul had an eye condition which was never healed.

Let me just say this as concisely as I can.
The above opinion posted is wrong.

It is wrong for the following reasons.
1. Paul rarely, if ever, wrote his own letters. He used an amanuensis, someone else that would write for him.
Example:
1 Corinthians 16:24 My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. Amen. [SIZE=-1]The first epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi by Stephanas, and Fortunatus, and Achaicus, and Timotheus.[/SIZE]
--He had a lot of help with that one.

2. Most scholars throughout the centuries believe that his poor eyesight to be his thorn in the flesh.

3. He begins to refer to it here:
Galatians 4:13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
--He was weak when he preached to them. The infirmity of the flesh was his eyesight, for it fits the context.

4. Galatians 6:11 Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.
(ESV) See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand.
(MKJV) See in what large letters I write to you with my hand.
--It is evident that Paul was using "large letters" as the Scripture says he was. This was because of his infirmity, the thorn in the flesh God had given him. His eyesight was poor. He was doing this himself without the help of an amanuensis.
--This is one of his shorter epistles, not his longer ones. Unlike Romans, 1Corinthians, 11Corinthians, this had only six short chapters.

5. Read the context. From that verse (6:11) onward, he speaks of suffering, especially in the body, in the light of those who oppose the gospels such as the Judaizers who would oppose the very gospel of Christ. Were they also willing to suffer afflictions as Paul had, and still continue to travel and preach the gospel?

Galatians 6:18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen. [SIZE=-1]Unto the Galatians written from Rome.[/SIZE]
--There is no mention of anyone else writing this epistle for him, as in other epistles. He wrote it himself, under the hardship of weak eyes, out of his love for the Galatians.

 

[12strings]

I just noticed this...I thought you just pm me this. I answered this in the pm??

I apologize, I meant to delete the public comment, but by the time I saw I had failed it was too late to edit.

 

[DHK]

What are you referring to with "Physician heal thyself"..that was in Luke 4 when he was teaching in Nazareth. He said they would say that to Him (Jesus).

They said it in a derogatory way. The will of the Father was for Jesus to suffer, and so he did?
If the prosperity gospel was true, why didn't Jesus heal himself, and enjoy life to the fullest? Why did he say: "Foxes have holes, the birds of the air have their nests, but the Son of man has no place to lay his head for rest."
He walked this earth, penniless. He owned no lands, had no riches, lived in other peoples' homes, was mocked by others, etc.
But this gospel that you preach ought to say that Jesus should have been rich with monetary goods. Something doesn't fit, does it?

They said it to Jesus as a common idiom. But that common idiom is still applicable. What good is a doctor who is constantly sick and unable to take his own advice to get well? If Paul had the power to heal others then why not the power to heal himself?

Would you take your car to a mechanic who didn't know how to fix his own car?

 

[12strings]

One more thing about Paul...Paul was a chosen vessel unto the Lord, to bear His name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel. God said he would suffer for His names sake. This was Paul's calling

So you will accept that in some circumstances, God might allow his children to suffer, even for extended periods of time, for some greater purpose, if it is their calling? Even if they pray in faith for God to remove the suffering?

 

[12strings]

Paul told Timothy to drink wine and not just water, because Timothy was experiencing frequent stomach illnesses (1 Timothy 5:23). Based on this verse, people sometimes claim that Paul couldn't heal Timothy, as if Paul was "losing" his ability to heal people. But clearly Paul was writing to Timothy. Paul was nowhere near Timothy and couldn't have laid hands on Timothy even if he wanted to! Notice that Timothy didn't have an "illness" (singular), but instead he had several illnesses (plural). Since he had "frequent illnesses" (plural), this shows that in some way his stomach illnesses were healed each time. This verse doesn't support the idea that healing was "dying out" in the first century.

You missed the point.

1. You failed to answer about the OTHER people who remained sick in the NT that DHK mentioned. (Trophimus, Epaphroditus). You have conveniently left them out of your response.

2. In this case, you are merely speculating as to whether Timothy was ever healed of his illnesses. The Bible doesn't say.

3. The main point is not about healings dying out, but that even in the NT era, God did not ALWAYS heal everyone who wanted healed.

 

[awaken]

They said it in a derogatory way. The will of the Father was for Jesus to suffer, and so he did?
If the prosperity gospel was true, why didn't Jesus heal himself, and enjoy life to the fullest? Why did he say: "Foxes have holes, the birds of the air have their nests, but the Son of man has no place to lay his head for rest."
He walked this earth, penniless. He owned no lands, had no riches, lived in other peoples' homes, was mocked by others, etc.
But this gospel that you preach ought to say that Jesus should have been rich with monetary goods. Something doesn't fit, does it?

They said it to Jesus as a common idiom. But that common idiom is still applicable. What good is a doctor who is constantly sick and unable to take his own advice to get well? If Paul had the power to heal others then why not the power to heal himself?

Would you take your car to a mechanic who didn't know how to fix his own car?

But that is the whole thread...Jesus went through all of that so that we could have all he offers!

 

[awaken]

So you will accept that in some circumstances, God might allow his children to suffer, even for extended periods of time, for some greater purpose, if it is their calling? Even if they pray in faith for God to remove the suffering?

What I will not agree with is that Paul was sick and did not receive healing!

 

[awaken]

You missed the point.

1. You failed to answer about the OTHER people who remained sick in the NT that DHK mentioned. (Trophimus, Epaphroditus). You have conveniently left them out of your response.

2. In this case, you are merely speculating as to whether Timothy was ever healed of his illnesses. The Bible doesn't say.

3. The main point is not about healings dying out, but that even in the NT era, God did not ALWAYS heal everyone who wanted healed.

When Jesus walked the earth no one was denied healing that came to Him in faith.
I thought I dealt with these..maybe it was in another thread.

Based on 2 Timothy 4:20, people sometimes assume that Paul had "lost" his healing abilities because he couldn't heal Trophimus. In that verse, the Greek word translated as "sick" is astheneo, and Paul used this Greek word 17 other times in the New Testament. Notice that with the exception of a single passage, Paul always used this Greek word to mean "weak." Here are the verses: Romans 4:19, 8:3, 14:1-2, 21 (literally, "is weak"), 1 Corinthians 8:9, 11-12, 11:20-21, 28-29, 12:10, 13:3-4, 9, Philippians 2:25-27.

Philippians 2:25-27 is the only other place in all of Paul's writings where astheneo is translated as "ill" instead of "weak," but having an illness can certainly leave a person feeling weak. If Trophimus was weak for some reason (but not actually sick), or if he was sick but received healing, then this passage doesn't support the idea that healing "died out" in the first century. But if Trophimus was sick, and if he never received healing, then this is no different than when people today don't receive healing (for various reasons). Either way, this passage doesn't prove that healing "died out" in the first century or that Paul had "lost" his healing abilities

 

[DHK]

But that is the whole thread...Jesus went through all of that so that we could have all he offers!

You conveniently took an idiom I used and derailed the entire thread. I wasn't talking about Jesus. I was talking about Paul, Timothy, Trophimus, Epaphroditus, and others that did not receive healing. Not everyone was healed. It is not God's will that everyone is healed. I don't like to get personal but you should know this fact from personal experience. We all do. I also have a mother that died of cancer. I have a father who died of pneumonia. Sickness took them both. Why didn't God heal them. There is one sickness that God never heals us of. That is death.
It is appointed unto man once to die, and after that the judgment.
We all face death; the time and place appointed is up to God.

 

[awaken]

You conveniently took an idiom I used and derailed the entire thread. I wasn't talking about Jesus. I was talking about Paul, Timothy, Trophimus, Epaphroditus, and others that did not receive healing. Not everyone was healed. It is not God's will that everyone is healed. I don't like to get personal but you should know this fact from personal experience. We all do. I also have a mother that died of cancer. I have a father who died of pneumonia. Sickness took them both. Why didn't God heal them. There is one sickness that God never heals us of. That is death.
It is appointed unto man once to die, and after that the judgment.
We all face death; the time and place appointed is up to God.

Where have I denied that? Go back and read my post! All will die!

 

[DHK]

Where have I denied that? Go back and read my post! All will die!

You manage to reply to the parts of the post that you know we agree on. I will copy and paste this so you will have it for the third time to reply to:

I was talking about Paul, Timothy, Trophimus, Epaphroditus, and others that did not receive healing. Not everyone was healed. It is not God's will that everyone is healed.

Do you agree?

 

[awaken]

You manage to reply to the parts of the post that you know we agree on. I will copy and paste this so you will have it for the third time to reply to:
[/b]
Do you agree?

Go back and read the thread...they were addressed!
Not all are healed today, but why?