The Blood covenant....so much more...

[awaken]

You have never been to a third world country where most of the nation lives in abject poverty have you? Try going to Ethiopia or Zimbabwe, parts of India, or Pakistan, or North Korea, and preach that message. See how it goes over.

There are lost souls over there too, right? So are you saying that Jesus death on the cross was not to save souls? No, you are not! So we need to give these people hope...the complete gospel!

Maybe if the ones that had the gift of giving (even though we are all to give to the poor)...we would not see this as we do today! The church has failed in many ways!! Reaching out to the poor is just one of them!

Are you denying that in 3 John that he is not saying that he wants us to prosper?

 

[12strings]

#4Jesus gets our poverty...we get his prosperity

"For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that , though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich." (2 Corinthians 8:9)

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth." (3 John 1:2)

The word prosperity had been distorted in America..from one extreme to the other. One extreme says that you are not spiritually blessed or mature unless you have a big bank account. The other extreme thinks that poverty is a mark of maturity. The poorer you are the more humble you are...Riches are looked on as sinful and worldly.

Having the resources to abundantly meet my needs with enough left over to give to others ...to me is closer to true prosperity

I'm going to ask a few clarifying questions...please answer simply:

1. Do you believe that if Christian is in poverty, it is because they have some sort of sin, or greater measure of sin, or not as much faith, as a Christian who is prosperous? Yes or no?

2. Do you believe that if those Christians who are in poverty would simply trust God more, that he would meet their needs, that he would deliver them from poverty? yes or no?

3. Do you believe that 2 Cor. 8:9 teaches that Jesus took on poverty so we could have more material riches?

4. The next time you are in Beloc, Haiti; do you plan on telling the Christians there that God will give them jobs, and incomes, if they only have enough faith?

5. When you say that having enough to abundantly meet your needs and give to others is prosperity...do you see this as something God has intended for all his children, but that they individually forfeit by sin or lack of faith in his provision?

 

[awaken]

You confuse the promises God made to tsreal under the old Covenant to the ones he promises us today under the new!

God gave isreal the physical healings/wealth/etc as long as they obeyed Him, but under the new one we have received ALL spiritual blessings in Christ!

Blessings of justification before God, eternal life, access to god, indwelt by His Spirit etc NOT a promise to wealth/health as provided under the Old Covenant!

THis is the "NEW COVENANT" promises! What do you think the Blood Covenant is? Have I not given NT scriptures?

 

[12strings]

There are lost souls over there too, right? So are you saying that Jesus death on the cross was not to save souls? No, you are not! So we need to give these people hope...the complete gospel!

Maybe if the ones that had the gift of giving (even though we are all to give to the poor)...we would not see this as we do today! The church has failed in many ways!! Reaching out to the poor is just one of them!

Are you denying that in 3 John that he is not saying that he wants us to prosper?

3 John v.4 - I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the truth.

1. The "HE" speaking here and in verse 2 is John, in a personal letter, so indeed he wishes those he cares about to prosper...Indeed it is also true that God desires good things for his children...but he may also withhold those material blessings for spiritual reasons. Making the leap from "John wants his friends to do well," over to "God promises material prosperity to his children" is quite a leap.

2. v.4 says John's greatest joy is to hear that his children are walking in the truth...seems to be at odds with his desire "above all else" that they prosper and be in good health, doesn't it? Not saying its a contradiction, but that they can't both be his highest desire/joy.

 

[awaken]

I'm going to ask a few clarifying questions...please answer simply:

1. Do you believe that if Christian is in poverty, it is because they have some sort of sin, or greater measure of sin, or not as much faith, as a Christian who is prosperous? Yes or no?

No!

2. Do you believe that if those Christians who are in poverty would simply trust God more, that he would meet their needs, that he would deliver them from poverty? yes or no?

I believe that if the christians would spread THE GOOD NEWS! That there would be less poor people! I believe most of these people have lost hope! We need to give them that Hope that is found in Jesus Christ! YES! I do believe most of them would be delivered! God said He wants us to prosper! So are you going to say that God does not want ALL to prosper?

3. Do you believe that 2 Cor. 8:9 teaches that Jesus took on poverty so we could have more material riches?

I described my definition of prosperity!

"The word prosperity had been distorted in America..from one extreme to the other. One extreme says that you are not spiritually blessed or mature unless you have a big bank account. The other extreme thinks that poverty is a mark of maturity. The poorer you are the more humble you are...Riches are looked on as sinful and worldly.

Having the resources to abundantly meet my needs with enough left over to give to others ...to me is closer to true prosperity"

4. The next time you are in Beloc, Haiti; do you plan on telling the Christians there that God will give them jobs, and incomes, if they only have enough faith?

Have they been told that God wants them to prosper? Does the Bible say this or not?

5. When you say that having enough to abundantly meet your needs and give to others is prosperity...do you see this as something God has intended for all his children, but that they individually forfeit by sin or lack of faith in his provision?

I will say that most have no idea of how God wants them to handle his (God's) finances. I do not think it is right that those that are millionaires handle there money to the degree that the poor go hungry and without shelter!
Can you show me in scipture where God says he WILL NOT supply our needs?

 

[awaken]

3 John v.4 - I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the truth.

1. The "HE" speaking here and in verse 2 is John, in a personal letter, so indeed he wishes those he cares about to prosper...Indeed it is also true that God desires good things for his children...but he may also withhold those material blessings for spiritual reasons. Making the leap from "John wants his friends to do well," over to "God promises material prosperity to his children" is quite a leap.

2. v.4 says John's greatest joy is to hear that his children are walking in the truth...seems to be at odds with his desire "above all else" that they prosper and be in good health, doesn't it? Not saying its a contradiction, but that they can't both be his highest desire/joy.

Let me ask a question? Was Jesus poor when he walked on the earth?

 

[awaken]

The covenant meal was very interesting to me...

In the Gospels..Matthew, Mark and Luke, Jesus is having "the Last Supper" with His disciples. He said during this time that the wine during dinner represented the "New Covenant." This supper was the "covenant meal", some call it "Holy Communion" "Lord's Table" or "the Eucharist."

In the blood covenant ceremony when it come to the covenant meal, this symbolized the union of two individuals as one. Tribes would unite as one..marriages unite as one..etc. But the Last supper it represents the union of God and man.

1 Corinthians 11: 17-34 Paul is correcting the Corinthians because of the disorder at the Lords supper. I think we need to be warned not to take this lightly. God takes it seriously!

The Spiritual Truth...

In the traditional blood covenant, the participates fed each other the bread and the wine. The bread represented the body of each person. As the bread was served they would say, "all that I am in now coming to you."

The wine represented the blood-the life of the person. "This is my blood, my life which is coming into you and I will lay down my life on your behalf, if necessary."

This meal represented a radical commitment.

In John 6:53-58 we find some strong covenant language. Jesus is talking about eternal life in context of eating his flesh and drinking his blood. It is fully identifying with Christ.. (1 John 4:15-17)

 

[DHK]

There are lost souls over there too, right? So are you saying that Jesus death on the cross was not to save souls? No, you are not! So we need to give these people hope...the complete gospel!

No, Your obligation, as well as mine is to obey the great commission and go to those people and tell them of the saving grace of God so they don't perish. In the light of that command--to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature--what are you doing? Are you being obedient?
There is no command to stay at home. The command is always to go. If God has not given you a "call" to stay at home then he has called you to go. If you don't obey the Great Commission and go to some of these nations, their blood will be upon your hands. You are as responsible as anyone.

Maybe if the ones that had the gift of giving (even though we are all to give to the poor)...we would not see this as we do today! The church has failed in many ways!! Reaching out to the poor is just one of them!

I am a missionary to some of those countries. Send your money to me. I will see that it is well used. :thumbsup:

Are you denying that in 3 John that he is not saying that he wants us to prosper?

That is not what the verse says. It is not a promise. It is part of a greeting. It is a desire of John, and that is all. There is no promise there. He is not guaranteeing the will of God for those people. He is not saying that it is God's will for them to prosper. If I say to someone that I hope you prosper, I am not saying that it is God's will for them to prosper, neither am I saying that they will. Charismatics everywhere have taken this verse out of context and built a false doctrine around it.

 

[awaken]

No, Your obligation, as well as mine is to obey the great commission and go to those people and tell them of the saving grace of God so they don't perish. In the light of that command--to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature--what are you doing? Are you being obedient?
There is no command to stay at home. The command is always to go. If God has not given you a "call" to stay at home then he has called you to go. If you don't obey the Great Commission and go to some of these nations, their blood will be upon your hands. You are as responsible as anyone.

As I go I do spread the gospel...but not all are sent across the ocean! We need it here in America...in my city..just as much as they need it across the ocean. I am glad for those that are called to do that! But I am not! If we were to all go where you are who would go other places?

I am a missionary to some of those countries. Send your money to me. I will see that it is well used. :thumbsup:

IF God lays that on me to do..I will!

That is not what the verse says. It is not a promise. It is part of a greeting. It is a desire of John, and that is all. There is no promise there. He is not guaranteeing the will of God for those people. He is not saying that it is God's will for them to prosper. If I say to someone that I hope you prosper, I am not saying that it is God's will for them to prosper, neither am I saying that they will. Charismatics everywhere have taken this verse out of context and built a false doctrine around it.

Can you answer this why did Jesus tell the disciples to tell John in prison that he was preaching to the POOR? Why do you think he singled out the POOR?

 

[DHK]

As I go I do spread the gospel...but not all are sent across the ocean! We need it here in America...in my city..just as much as they need it across the ocean. I am glad for those that are called to do that! But I am not! If we were to all go where you are who would go other places?

Surely you heard of the film recently put out over the internet "The Innocence of Islam," which "blasphemed the name of Mohammed." In most Islamic nations, that transgression calls for the death sentence. Recently, at the U.N. assembly one of the U.N. delegates of an Islamic nation suggested that the U.N. pass a bill that would make it a world-wide law not to blaspheme the name of Mohammed. Yet their religion, by virtue of denigrating Jesus to the status of a prophet, blasphemes Christ every day.
Why do I say this.

In the U.S. there is freedom. There is also no excuse for anyone anywhere not to hear the gospel. It comes over the airwaves--the TV, the radio, the internet, in every possible media outlet, the gospel is preached. It comes through the printed media--gospel tracts, books, missions, stores, etc. There is not any excuse in America for any individual not to hear the gospel. Everyone has that chance simply by virtue of the freedom that we have.

Our obligation is to go to those places where the gospel has not been preached--to go where the greatest need is. Go to Saudi Arabia, where it is against the law to preach the gospel, where very few have heard. Go to Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, these Muslim nations which are starving to hear the gospel, and most of them have never heard it before, and may never get the chance to hear it. Many of them simply believe that if they die as a martyr they will go to paradise of some sort, and that is the only (false) hope they have. They have been deceived. Go where the need is. That is our obligation.

Can you answer this why did Jesus tell the disciples to tell John in prison that he was preaching to the POOR? Why do you think he singled out the POOR?

I am not sure which verse you are referring to, but here are some to consider.
Many of his disciples came from poor backgrounds. They were simple fishermen.
Remember the rich young ruler. He came to Jesus wanting eternal life. He went away sorrowful. Why? He had many riches and was not willing to depart from them. Jesus said: "How hardly shall a rich man enter into the kingdom of God; It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God."

The rich tend to trust in their riches rather than in God.
When the poor have nothing left and no where else to turn, then they will turn to God for help.

 

[12strings]

I believe that if the Christians would spread THE GOOD NEWS! That there would be less poor people! I believe most of these people have lost hope! We need to give them that Hope that is found in Jesus Christ! YES! I do believe most of them would be delivered! God said He wants us to prosper! So are you going to say that God does not want ALL to prosper?

The Christian message DOES create men and women who are dedicated to providing for their families and staying together as couples, and not being corrupt employers and government employees...So yes, as Christianity spreads, people prosper...and yes, people do need the hope that is found in Jesus...

BUT...THERE IS NO BIBLICAL PROMISE THAT CHRISTIANS WILL HAVE FINANCIAL PROSPERITY IN THIS LIFE, OR FREEDOM FROM HEALTH PROBLEMS...read the biographies of John Bunyan, or Joni Ericsontada, or Jeremiah. Yes, Jesus was poor here on this earth. He had no place to lay his head.

God has NOT said he wants us to prosper. John said he wanted his friends to prosper.

Have they been told that God wants them to prosper? Does the Bible say this or not?

If you believe that IF Christians in poverty would trust God more, then He would deliver them from poverty...then you are left with the inescapable conclusion that American Christians are the most godly, faith-filled Christians in the world...AND that those Chrsitians in Haiti, China's underground, Zimbabwe, and other poverty-stricken nations simply lack the faith for God to raise them out of their poverty.

If you go to the Christians meeting in Beloc, Haiti under a holey (not holy) tent in a rain-storm because their church was destroyed, who are dying from infected water...and you tell the wife of an unemployed man that if she has faith her husband will find a job, and that if she has faith her sick son will not die, but recover...you have given false hope, not good news. What then is your response when the son dies, or the man goes unemplyed for the next 10 years? I happens all the time, to Christians! Christians, who, if the truth were known, pray harder, and more fervently than 99% of Americans.

I will say that most have no idea of how God wants them to handle his (God's) finances. I do not think it is right that those that are millionaires handle there money to the degree that the poor go hungry and without shelter!
Can you show me in scripture where God says he WILL NOT supply our needs?

God has said he will supply our needs, but we dont' get to decide what our needs are, he does. Some people's need might be to get sick and stay sick for 70 years...Some people's need might be to live in poverty their whole life. WE just don't know.

We agree that many people suffer because of other people's selfishness.

 

[awaken]

The Christian message DOES create men and women who are dedicated to providing for their families and staying together as couples, and not being corrupt employers and government employees...So yes, as Christianity spreads, people prosper...and yes, people do need the hope that is found in Jesus...

BUT...THERE IS NO BIBLICAL PROMISE THAT CHRISTIANS WILL HAVE FINANCIAL PROSPERITY IN THIS LIFE, OR FREEDOM FROM HEALTH PROBLEMS...read the biographies of John Bunyan, or Joni Ericsontada, or Jeremiah. Yes, Jesus was poor here on this earth. He had no place to lay his head.

Wonder what happen to the gifts he got at birth? Wonder how they had money in a treasury?

God has NOT said he wants us to prosper. John said he wanted his friends to prosper.

Point taken!

If you believe that IF Christians in poverty would trust God more, then He would deliver them from poverty...then you are left with the inescapable conclusion that American Christians are the most godly, faith-filled Christians in the world...AND that those Chrsitians in Haiti, China's underground, Zimbabwe, and other poverty-stricken nations simply lack the faith for God to raise them out of their poverty.

We have not because we ask not, right? Some blessing come out of obedience/faith in what he tells us in his Word! If we do not know and understand the Word correctly how are we going to believe it!

If you go to the Christians meeting in Beloc, Haiti under a holey (not holy) tent in a rain-storm because their church was destroyed, who are dying from infected water...and you tell the wife of an unemployed man that if she has faith her husband will find a job, and that if she has faith her sick son will not die, but recover...you have given false hope, not good news. What then is your response when the son dies, or the man goes unemplyed for the next 10 years? I happens all the time, to Christians! Christians, who, if the truth were known, pray harder, and more fervently than 99% of Americans.

So you tell me not to tell them God will help them? How do you help someone without pointing to the one that can help!

God has said he will supply our needs, but we dont' get to decide what our needs are, he does. Some people's need might be to get sick and stay sick for 70 years...Some people's need might be to live in poverty their whole life. WE just don't know.

We agree that many people suffer because of other people's selfishness.

Can you show me one scripture that God put a sickness on someone?

 

[12strings]

Wonder what happen to the gifts he got at birth? Wonder how they had money in a treasury?

Judas had a purse...there's no indication that Jesus claimed possession of that money for his own use.

We have not because we ask not, right? Some blessing come out of obedience/faith in what he tells us in his Word! If we do not know and understand the Word correctly how are we going to believe it!
So you tell me not to tell them God will help them? How do you help someone without pointing to the one that can help!

If I ask for God to help provide for me when I'm in a financial bind, I can, and can trust he will do what is best...but it may be to let me stay in a bind for a while so that I learn to rely on Him and not lean on money...either way, I cannot GUARANTEE that he will give me money just because I ask for it. He may decide not to.

The way you help someone in need (beyond giving yourself), is to Point them to a God who can sustain them even in difficult circumstances, that his grace is sufficient. Telling them that, yes, God is able to deliver them from their circumstances...but that he might also choose to deliver them THROUGH their circumstances. That is much more biblical, and much more honest, without telling them that something is going to happen, that may not happen.

Can you show me one scripture that God put a sickness on someone?

Um, you mean a disease like leprosy? Yeah, I can think of a few...

 

[DHK]

We have not because we ask not, right? Some blessing come out of obedience/faith in what he tells us in his Word! If we do not know and understand the Word correctly how are we going to believe it!

So you tell me not to tell them God will help them? How do you help someone without pointing to the one that can help!

Can you show me one scripture that God put a sickness on someone?

I cannot believe your responses here. Your view of God is a very capricious and cruel one, as if God delights in evil.
Your view of mankind in general is that 90% of the world got what was coming to them because they don't have faith. If only they had faith they wouldn't have been crushed in an earthquake, left for dead, others homeless, etc. If they had more faith, they wouldn't suffer with lifetime ailments of diabetes, MS, ALS, Cerebral Palsy, Epilepsy, Alzeimer's Parkinsons, etc.
If they just had more "faith" they wouldn't have all these diseases. You are so cruel. A mother dies at birth, has no father, the child is born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. With complications the child will be put into foster care. What did that infant do to deserve that?

 

[awaken]

If I ask for God to help provide for me when I'm in a financial bind, I can, and can trust he will do what is best...but it may be to let me stay in a bind for a while so that I learn to rely on Him and not lean on money...either way, I cannot GUARANTEE that he will give me money just because I ask for it. He may decide not to.

It all depends on why you are in a bind?

The way you help someone in need (beyond giving yourself), is to Point them to a God who can sustain them even in difficult circumstances, that his grace is sufficient. Telling them that, yes, God is able to deliver them from their circumstances...but that he might also choose to deliver them THROUGH their circumstances. That is much more biblical, and much more honest, without telling them that something is going to happen, that may not happen.

True! I learned alot going through tough times! He was there every step of the way!

Um, you mean a disease like leprosy? Yeah, I can think of a few...

Well maybe I should have said in the Gospels...
Under the OT law, sickness, infermity, and disease were never considered "blessings" (Deuteronomy 28). They were always curses. But we are in the NT(New Covenant) now. Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the law and the blessing come upon us by faith. (Gal. 3:12-14)

So to say that God puts sickness on a christian is to say he is cursing them, right?

 

[awaken]

I cannot believe your responses here. Your view of God is a very capricious and cruel one, as if God delights in evil.
Your view of mankind in general is that 90% of the world got what was coming to them because they don't have faith. If only they had faith they wouldn't have been crushed in an earthquake, left for dead, others homeless, etc. If they had more faith, they wouldn't suffer with lifetime ailments of diabetes, MS, ALS, Cerebral Palsy, Epilepsy, Alzeimer's Parkinsons, etc.
If they just had more "faith" they wouldn't have all these diseases. You are so cruel. A mother dies at birth, has no father, the child is born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. With complications the child will be put into foster care. What did that infant do to deserve that?

I do not believe God does any of that! I believe it is because we live in a fallen world and satan is out to destroy us and our faith!
It is really getting hard to debate with you because you resort to personal attacks...

 

[DHK]

I do not believe God does any of that! I believe it is because we live in a fallen world and satan is out to destroy us and our faith!
It is really getting hard to debate with you because you resort to personal attacks...

I am pointing out your limited view of both God and humanity.
You have been privileged to live in the U.S.A. and I don't know if you have ever stepped outside of it. I am a missionary and have been for nearly 30 years. I see the suffering, abject poverty, and sicknesses of those that live in third world countries--things that you have never seen in your life. The statements you have made (some of them) are heartless and cruel.
Here are a couple of your quotes:

God said He wants us to prosper! So are you going to say that God does not want ALL to prosper?

I described my definition of prosperity!

"The word prosperity had been distorted in America..from one extreme to the other. One extreme says that you are not spiritually blessed or mature unless you have a big bank account. The other extreme thinks that poverty is a mark of maturity. The poorer you are the more humble you are...Riches are looked on as sinful and worldly.

Having the resources to abundantly meet my needs with enough left over to give to others ...to me is closer to true prosperity"

The starving people in slavery and bondage to others you say (even though they may be devout Christians) "have the resources to abundantly meet their needs with enough left over to give to others."
You live in a dream world outside of reality, having never seen anything outside of your own never world.

Here are some things for you to think about:
http://www.worthynews.com/11763-kenya-church-attack-kills-1-child-injures-9
http://www.worthynews.com/top/franc...ristians-flee-egypt-town-after-death-threats/
http://www.worthynews.com/11729-iran-pastor-youcef-nadarkhani-released-at-home
http://www.worthynews.com/11714-paki-imam-arrested-in-blasphemy-case-against-christian-girl

Yet you say these people should be prospering??
Why aren't they? Are you really that cruel to say they have a lack of faith.
It is only the providence of God that you were fortunate enough to be born in a nation so affluent and free as the U.S. rather than in a nation like Zimbabwe, Ethiopia, Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan.

 

[12strings]

It all depends on why you are in a bind?

Not really, If I am in a bind due to my own sinfulness, God can deliver me, or allow me to suffer the consequences of my decisions. If I am in a bind due to circumstances outside my control, God can deliver me, or allow me to face hardship for a season. His choice, not mine. Believing that he CAN give me financial prosperity is not the same as believing that he WILL. One is biblical, the other is speculation.

Well maybe I should have said in the Gospels...
Under the OT law, sickness, infermity, and disease were never considered "blessings" (Deuteronomy 28). They were always curses. But we are in the NT(New Covenant) now. Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the law and the blessing come upon us by faith. (Gal. 3:12-14).

So to say that God puts sickness on a christian is to say he is cursing them, right?

Wrong.

Hebrews 12:5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. 6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” 7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits land live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.


God may give hardship to his children for purposes they cannot understand at the time...it may seem painful rather than pleasant. How much of my sin was paid for on the cross? ALL OF IT! So if God allows suffering in my life, it's not for justice, or punishment...its for training, because of love, Not a curse. Now that hardship may look the same as the hardship that falls on an unbeliever, but the purpose is different:

 

[awaken]

Wrong.

Hebrews 12:5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. 6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” 7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits land live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.


God may give hardship to his children for purposes they cannot understand at the time...it may seem painful rather than pleasant. How much of my sin was paid for on the cross? ALL OF IT! So if God allows suffering in my life, it's not for justice, or punishment...its for training, because of love, Not a curse. Now that hardship may look the same as the hardship that falls on an unbeliever, but the purpose is different:

The words "afflictions" and "chastens" in those passages don't mean sicknesses or diseases.

For example, Psalms 34:19 in the King James Version begins with, "Many are the afflictions of the righteous," and sincere, well-meaning people sometimes use this verse to justify their sicknesses. Notice that this verse doesn't say, "Many are the sicknesses of the righteous," but even if it did say that, the verse ends with, "but the Lord delivers them out of them all." Therefore Psalms 34:19 can't be used to justify our sicknesses. In fact, the word "afflictions" in Psalms 34:19 has nothing to do with sickness because it means "anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble" (Strong's Hebrew Dictionary).

Now let's consider what it means when the Lord "disciplines" or "chastens" those He loves (Hebrews 12:6-7). The Greek word for "discipline" or "chasten" in that passage means "instruct, learn, teach," according to Strong's Greek Dictionary. Notice that loving parents would not discipline their children by intentionally inflicting cancer or AIDS or any other disease on them! God is a God who loves His children and has our best interests at heart, He's not a God of child abuse. But even if we want to believe that sicknesses are "chastenings," notice that the above passage instructs us to endure chastenings! So if we believe that sicknesses are "chastenings" then we should not go to a doctor nor take any medication nor do anything to alleviate our symptoms nor try to get better, because then we're not enduring our discipline.

God might sometimes use an existing sickness as a way of teaching us something, but this doesn't mean that all of our sicknesses are "afflictions" or "chastenings." Many people are misusing these Scriptures to justify their sicknesses and diseases and infirmities, but wouldn't you rather believe what the Bible really says and then receive healing from your sickness and pain?

 

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The words "afflictions" and "chastens" in those passages don't mean sicknesses or diseases.

For example, Psalms 34:19 in the King James Version begins with, "Many are the afflictions of the righteous," and sincere, well-meaning people sometimes use this verse to justify their sicknesses. Notice that this verse doesn't say, "Many are the sicknesses of the righteous," but even if it did say that, the verse ends with, "but the Lord delivers them out of them all." Therefore Psalms 34:19 can't be used to justify our sicknesses. In fact, the word "afflictions" in Psalms 34:19 has nothing to do with sickness because it means "anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble" (Strong's Hebrew Dictionary).

Now let's consider what it means when the Lord "disciplines" or "chastens" those He loves (Hebrews 12:6-7). The Greek word for "discipline" or "chasten" in that passage means "instruct, learn, teach," according to Strong's Greek Dictionary. Notice that loving parents would not discipline their children by intentionally inflicting cancer or AIDS or any other disease on them! God is a God who loves His children and has our best interests at heart, He's not a God of child abuse. But even if we want to believe that sicknesses are "chastenings," notice that the above passage instructs us to endure chastenings! So if we believe that sicknesses are "chastenings" then we should not go to a doctor nor take any medication nor do anything to alleviate our symptoms nor try to get better, because then we're not enduring our discipline.

God might sometimes use an existing sickness as a way of teaching us something, but this doesn't mean that all of our sicknesses are "afflictions" or "chastenings." Many people are misusing these Scriptures to justify their sicknesses and diseases and infirmities, but wouldn't you rather believe what the Bible really says and then receive healing from your sickness and pain?

1. Chastening does not equal sickness, but it does not exclude it either.

2. God tells us to pray for deliverance, but he does not promise always to grant deliverance in the time we desire or the way we desire. So like Jesus, we pray, "If possible, deliver me, but nevertheless, no my will, but yours be done."

3. You still seem to think sicknesses are a sign of sin..."justify their sicknesses." EVERY CHRISTIAN GETS OLD, GETS SICK, AND DIES...If what you say were true, then you could go around to all the dying 90-year-old Christians and teach them that if they simply pray and have faith, God is GUARANTEED to heal them and give them many more years of life.

4. All sickness is not tied to a specific sin, or a specific lesson, BUT, all hardship in life is discipline...ie, all of life is discipline, training, opportunities to either respond in obedience or disobedience.