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EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON: Misunderstood Comment
- Thread starter Matt22:37-39
- Start date
Matt22:37-39
New Member
1. You are correct, but the man had to be blind for a time before he could be healed and God glorified...so his blindness WAS part of some divine plan...directly contradicting the quote from "theotherjournal":
This seems directly at odds with Jesus' reason for the man's blindness.
John 9:3 - Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his
parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him."
2. I don't know that it is exactly right to say that the God would ONLY be glorified if the man had faith. Jesus healed & fed many people, but there is good evidence in the Gospels that many of them were not true believers...however Jesus is still receiving glory for those miracles today...even for giving some people physical benefits who were not really true believers. So God getting glory for a miracle is not dependent on man's faith.
Yes I agree with you...not sure I would compare something you are "Born With"...to pure EVIL actions of another, even worse ones who claim to know God. What I am saying even in my OP was, that is the PARADOX...God's Sovereignty and Mans Free Will? I do think however that as one DRAWS (loves) closer to the Lord that is when one SEES what is of God and what is of the devil and what is others actions towards us or just our plain own desires.
Like I said it goes back to God's nature and His not being able to contradict it. So I find it hard to believe that God told Satan to influence someone to kidnap, rape and murder a little child and somehow He glorifies Himself in that...yes the child may be in heaven (that's a whole different story) and God can work things out for good to those left if they allow Him to.
Job 1:20 Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshiped. 21 And he said, “Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked shall I return. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.” 22 In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong.
Observation #1: If Satan takes the lives of our family, and our prosperity away from us, It is NOT A SIN to say that GOD has taken it away. (In all this Job did not sin).
Job 2:7 So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and struck Job with loathsome sores from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head. 8 And he took a piece of broken pottery with which to scrape himself while he sat in the ashes. 9 Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die.” 10 But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.
Observation #2: If Satan strikes one of God's children with illness, It is NOT A SIN to speak of receiving that illness (which we view as evil) from God. (Job did not sin with his lips).
Observation #3: Job suffered greatly, losing his prosperity, losing his health, for a significant period of time (ie, he was denied healing for a time). His friends came along and told him he must be doing something wrong to not be prosperous and healthy...but God, rather than rebuking Job for his lack of faith, rebukes the friends for their ill-conceived advice.
Observation #1: If Satan takes the lives of our family, and our prosperity away from us, It is NOT A SIN to say that GOD has taken it away. (In all this Job did not sin).
Job 2:7 So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and struck Job with loathsome sores from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head. 8 And he took a piece of broken pottery with which to scrape himself while he sat in the ashes. 9 Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die.” 10 But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.
Observation #2: If Satan strikes one of God's children with illness, It is NOT A SIN to speak of receiving that illness (which we view as evil) from God. (Job did not sin with his lips).
Observation #3: Job suffered greatly, losing his prosperity, losing his health, for a significant period of time (ie, he was denied healing for a time). His friends came along and told him he must be doing something wrong to not be prosperous and healthy...but God, rather than rebuking Job for his lack of faith, rebukes the friends for their ill-conceived advice.
Matt22:37-39
New Member
CONSIDER THIS BELOW and I would like to add something...
I would like to add that SATAN CANNOT be every where at all times....so that right there refutes your belief. Many try and use the book of JOB (assumed to be written before Noah I believe, so not that many for Satan to watch over back then) to prove your point.... well MY point (yes mine as I am the only one I have heard say this starting in 1993, it didn't come to my mind till I started reading the article below) FACT is Satan cannot ask God permission to attack all that goes on in the world, he is not omnipresent like God is...well then you say, see I am right he can't be the one who is the author of death and all evil because he can't be every where at one time, so God has to be....nope Satan and a 1/3 of the fallen angels do all that evil and no where in the bible does it say a demon came to God to ask Him permission to attack anyone, in fact Jesus cast out demons..... what, demons he put in there in the first place?...see the point? I believe believers have a guardian angel...I have 4 lol, I also believe we are assigned demons to try and trip us up..how else would they KNOW our weaknesses so well? Anyway, God steps in when God wants to step in...He may take someone home out of mercy, the bible says He takes them home out of disobedience (then most of us should be home right?) But to do it in a way that goes contrary to WHO He is...nope not seeing it.
Question: "Does Satan have to get God's permission before he can attack us?"
Answer: There is no biblical evidence that suggests Satan needs God's specific permission in order to act against Christians. Many people believe that Job 1 supports the idea of Satan not being able to afflict Job until he asked God. However, consider Satan's argument before God, "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land" (Job 1:10). Satan is obviously familiar with who Job is and is aware of Job's special protection and blessing by God. How could Satan have known of Job's protection, unless he and/or his demonic minions had not already tried to work their will against Job? What Satan is really asking is for God to remove Job's protection.
A similar passage is Luke 22:31-32: "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers." Clearly in this case Satan had to ask permission to tempt Peter. Jesus tells Peter that He has prayed specifically for him so that Peter can strengthen the other disciples, the implication being that the others WILL be sifted in whatever way Satan intends. The Bible does not specifically state that the disciples had special protection from God, but there is no doubt that God had a higher purpose in mind—the strengthening of the other disciples—in allowing Satan to harass Peter.
Whereas these passages imply that there are boundaries and rules Satan must abide by, there is no real biblical proof that he needs God's permission. The very character of Satan proves that he disdains authority and is not one who would truly seek permission. Job was hedged about by the Lord—Satan couldn’t get to him without the Lord first removing that protection. The ultimate reality is that God controls everything in the universe, including Satan, and that “in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose” (Romans 8:28).
http://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-God-permission.html
I would like to add that SATAN CANNOT be every where at all times....so that right there refutes your belief. Many try and use the book of JOB (assumed to be written before Noah I believe, so not that many for Satan to watch over back then) to prove your point.... well MY point (yes mine as I am the only one I have heard say this starting in 1993, it didn't come to my mind till I started reading the article below) FACT is Satan cannot ask God permission to attack all that goes on in the world, he is not omnipresent like God is...well then you say, see I am right he can't be the one who is the author of death and all evil because he can't be every where at one time, so God has to be....nope Satan and a 1/3 of the fallen angels do all that evil and no where in the bible does it say a demon came to God to ask Him permission to attack anyone, in fact Jesus cast out demons..... what, demons he put in there in the first place?...see the point? I believe believers have a guardian angel...I have 4 lol, I also believe we are assigned demons to try and trip us up..how else would they KNOW our weaknesses so well? Anyway, God steps in when God wants to step in...He may take someone home out of mercy, the bible says He takes them home out of disobedience (then most of us should be home right?) But to do it in a way that goes contrary to WHO He is...nope not seeing it.
Question: "Does Satan have to get God's permission before he can attack us?"
Answer: There is no biblical evidence that suggests Satan needs God's specific permission in order to act against Christians. Many people believe that Job 1 supports the idea of Satan not being able to afflict Job until he asked God. However, consider Satan's argument before God, "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land" (Job 1:10). Satan is obviously familiar with who Job is and is aware of Job's special protection and blessing by God. How could Satan have known of Job's protection, unless he and/or his demonic minions had not already tried to work their will against Job? What Satan is really asking is for God to remove Job's protection.
A similar passage is Luke 22:31-32: "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers." Clearly in this case Satan had to ask permission to tempt Peter. Jesus tells Peter that He has prayed specifically for him so that Peter can strengthen the other disciples, the implication being that the others WILL be sifted in whatever way Satan intends. The Bible does not specifically state that the disciples had special protection from God, but there is no doubt that God had a higher purpose in mind—the strengthening of the other disciples—in allowing Satan to harass Peter.
Whereas these passages imply that there are boundaries and rules Satan must abide by, there is no real biblical proof that he needs God's permission. The very character of Satan proves that he disdains authority and is not one who would truly seek permission. Job was hedged about by the Lord—Satan couldn’t get to him without the Lord first removing that protection. The ultimate reality is that God controls everything in the universe, including Satan, and that “in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose” (Romans 8:28).
http://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-God-permission.html
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Matt22:37-39
New Member
Question: "Did God create evil?"
Answer: At first it might seem that if God created all things, then evil must have been created by God. However, evil is not a “thing” like a rock or electricity. You cannot have a jar of evil. Evil has no existence of its own; it is really the absence of good. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole, but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all He created was good. One of the good things God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So, God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or reject good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it.
Perhaps a further illustration will help. If a person is asked, “Does cold exist?” the answer would likely be “yes.” However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist; it is the absence of light. Evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.
God did not create evil, but He does allow evil. If God had not allowed for the possibility of evil, both mankind and angels would be serving God out of obligation, not choice. He did not want “robots” that simply did what He wanted them to do because of their “programming.” God allowed for the possibility of evil so that we could genuinely have a free will and choose whether or not we wanted to serve Him.
As finite human beings, we can never fully understand an infinite God (Romans 11:33-34). Sometimes we think we understand why God is doing something, only to find out later that it was for a different purpose than we originally thought. God looks at things from a holy, eternal perspective. We look at things from a sinful, earthly, and temporal perspective. Why did God put man on earth knowing that Adam and Eve would sin and therefore bring evil, death, and suffering on all mankind? Why didn’t He just create us all and leave us in heaven where we would be perfect and without suffering? These questions cannot be adequately answered this side of eternity. What we can know is whatever God does is holy and perfect and ultimately will glorify Him. God allowed for the possibility of evil in order to give us a true choice in regards to whether we worship Him. God did not create evil, but He allowed it. If He had not allowed evil, we would be worshiping Him out of obligation, not by a choice of our own will.
http://www.gotquestions.org/did-God-create-evil.html
Answer: At first it might seem that if God created all things, then evil must have been created by God. However, evil is not a “thing” like a rock or electricity. You cannot have a jar of evil. Evil has no existence of its own; it is really the absence of good. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole, but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all He created was good. One of the good things God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So, God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or reject good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it.
Perhaps a further illustration will help. If a person is asked, “Does cold exist?” the answer would likely be “yes.” However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist; it is the absence of light. Evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.
God did not create evil, but He does allow evil. If God had not allowed for the possibility of evil, both mankind and angels would be serving God out of obligation, not choice. He did not want “robots” that simply did what He wanted them to do because of their “programming.” God allowed for the possibility of evil so that we could genuinely have a free will and choose whether or not we wanted to serve Him.
As finite human beings, we can never fully understand an infinite God (Romans 11:33-34). Sometimes we think we understand why God is doing something, only to find out later that it was for a different purpose than we originally thought. God looks at things from a holy, eternal perspective. We look at things from a sinful, earthly, and temporal perspective. Why did God put man on earth knowing that Adam and Eve would sin and therefore bring evil, death, and suffering on all mankind? Why didn’t He just create us all and leave us in heaven where we would be perfect and without suffering? These questions cannot be adequately answered this side of eternity. What we can know is whatever God does is holy and perfect and ultimately will glorify Him. God allowed for the possibility of evil in order to give us a true choice in regards to whether we worship Him. God did not create evil, but He allowed it. If He had not allowed evil, we would be worshiping Him out of obligation, not by a choice of our own will.
http://www.gotquestions.org/did-God-create-evil.html
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I would like to add that SATAN CANNOT be every where at all times....so that right there refutes your belief.
Question: "Does Satan have to get God's permission before he can attack us?"
1. I'm not even sure what belief of mine is refuted by the fact that Satan cannot be everywhere. I never said he was.
2. You make good points about Satan not asking permission, but the fact remains that in every circumstance where satan, demons, or sinful people act to harm us...God will EITHER stop them, or allow them to do their sinful deed. There is biblical evidence that God does both.
3. The fact remains that Satan did something bad to Job...Job said God did it...and God's word tells us that "he did not sin with his lips." In fact near the end of the book God says to the friends, "you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." I believe what the book of Job points to is that Satan is not doing things without God's knowledge or allowance...and he can only go so far...AND that God DOES allow suffering in the lives of his people for various reasons.
Matt22:37-39
New Member
I'm sorry that wasn't specifically address at you, maybe I worded that wrong.
Like I said in the OP this is a PARADOX...but the fact remains, that God will not go against His nature unless one part OUT RULES the OTHER. Nor will He go against the LAWS He set in place...Like I said in the OP...CAUSE and EFFECT...so yes sometimes He does allow bad things to happen I never said He didn't, but that is because if He didn't He would be breaking one of His higher standards. I think the problem is WE do not know when that exactly is for God...how does His allowing something for a reason and why? Only He knows...for His ways are higher than our ways and His thought not our thoughts.
Besides the ones given earlier, here are a few more examples: In the garden Adam and Eve had to be punished for disobeying God's command, (remember God cannot lie, so if He said something He meant it...good parent) but He also provided a way for forgiveness, because of His love through the shedding of blood. But there was to remain continual consequences for sin. See here God is able to Balance His love and mercy with His holiness and justice.
If one chooses to over indulge in anything that is ultimately harmful, then the cause and effect of the laws of nature He set into place, more than likely they will die...did God do that NO, mans free will did that.
I have learned that a cat kept indoors will live much longer than the ones outside. Did God make that cat live longer because He willed it? More than likely NO, the cat was safer inside...again the law of nature.
If one is suffering, especially one of His children, He may allow them to go to be home with Him, because His love is showing them mercy. I feel many babies and children this is the case. They may have never have come to the Lord as an adult so His plan was to take them early...WHO KNOWS?..I think of the weirdest things.
He may even allow evil to take place KNOWING that through it many will come to know Christ through the testimony of the family that is left.
But to say God is behind evil or anything that doesn't have a HIGHER GOOD...doubt it. That would be other factors listed below.
Satan is called the destroyer not God.
THINK OF THESE THINGS WHEN SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS TO FIGURE OUT THE REAL SOURCE....
IS IT GOD'S WILL?...through prayer and reading of the word and keeping short accounts and always submitting to His will...we will be able to HEAR this.
IS IT SATAN'S VOICE?...is what is being said or happening in accordance with God's word and who he is? Again you will know this depending how close you are listening.
IS IT MY SIN AND DESIRES?...I think we pretty much know when we blow it, or I would hope most of us do, even though we may not admit it. Keeping short accounts of our failings will also help in dealing with MY FREE WILL?
IS IT OTHERS SIN?....Did what just happen after taking into account my part, have anything to do with those who sin against us, like lying, stealing, physical anger or anything that would go against "the golden rule" and God's word.
IS IT BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A FALLEN WORLD?...Stuff happens, mainly cause of the fact we live in a fallen world...in the O.T. especially before the flood people lived a long time....their environment was healthier. Do your best to take care of yourself...but some things are genetic, and bound to happen, even if you do your best. I happen to have received very good genes, along with other good things I do, but I'm no fanatic.
BOTTOM LINE to me is that God is sovereign and can do anything. But he is limited in what he can do, due to His nature...example He cannot lie. Romans 8:28 makes clear to me that the more I love God by drawing closer to Him, the more he can take anything BAD and make it GOOD in my life, even the death of a precious loved child. But I also need to remind myself that may not always be seen here on earth in the tangible, as much as the spiritual.
.
Like I said in the OP this is a PARADOX...but the fact remains, that God will not go against His nature unless one part OUT RULES the OTHER. Nor will He go against the LAWS He set in place...Like I said in the OP...CAUSE and EFFECT...so yes sometimes He does allow bad things to happen I never said He didn't, but that is because if He didn't He would be breaking one of His higher standards. I think the problem is WE do not know when that exactly is for God...how does His allowing something for a reason and why? Only He knows...for His ways are higher than our ways and His thought not our thoughts.
Besides the ones given earlier, here are a few more examples: In the garden Adam and Eve had to be punished for disobeying God's command, (remember God cannot lie, so if He said something He meant it...good parent) but He also provided a way for forgiveness, because of His love through the shedding of blood. But there was to remain continual consequences for sin. See here God is able to Balance His love and mercy with His holiness and justice.
If one chooses to over indulge in anything that is ultimately harmful, then the cause and effect of the laws of nature He set into place, more than likely they will die...did God do that NO, mans free will did that.
I have learned that a cat kept indoors will live much longer than the ones outside. Did God make that cat live longer because He willed it? More than likely NO, the cat was safer inside...again the law of nature.
If one is suffering, especially one of His children, He may allow them to go to be home with Him, because His love is showing them mercy. I feel many babies and children this is the case. They may have never have come to the Lord as an adult so His plan was to take them early...WHO KNOWS?..I think of the weirdest things.
He may even allow evil to take place KNOWING that through it many will come to know Christ through the testimony of the family that is left.
But to say God is behind evil or anything that doesn't have a HIGHER GOOD...doubt it. That would be other factors listed below.
Satan is called the destroyer not God.
THINK OF THESE THINGS WHEN SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS TO FIGURE OUT THE REAL SOURCE....
IS IT GOD'S WILL?...through prayer and reading of the word and keeping short accounts and always submitting to His will...we will be able to HEAR this.
IS IT SATAN'S VOICE?...is what is being said or happening in accordance with God's word and who he is? Again you will know this depending how close you are listening.
IS IT MY SIN AND DESIRES?...I think we pretty much know when we blow it, or I would hope most of us do, even though we may not admit it. Keeping short accounts of our failings will also help in dealing with MY FREE WILL?
IS IT OTHERS SIN?....Did what just happen after taking into account my part, have anything to do with those who sin against us, like lying, stealing, physical anger or anything that would go against "the golden rule" and God's word.
IS IT BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A FALLEN WORLD?...Stuff happens, mainly cause of the fact we live in a fallen world...in the O.T. especially before the flood people lived a long time....their environment was healthier. Do your best to take care of yourself...but some things are genetic, and bound to happen, even if you do your best. I happen to have received very good genes, along with other good things I do, but I'm no fanatic.
BOTTOM LINE to me is that God is sovereign and can do anything. But he is limited in what he can do, due to His nature...example He cannot lie. Romans 8:28 makes clear to me that the more I love God by drawing closer to Him, the more he can take anything BAD and make it GOOD in my life, even the death of a precious loved child. But I also need to remind myself that may not always be seen here on earth in the tangible, as much as the spiritual.
.
Last edited by a moderator:
Matt22:37-39
New Member
Please apply the "hot and cold" illustration to the Garden incident? If Adam had never experienced evil . . . .
Not sure what you mean?
You tell a child that a stove top will burn him but doesn't know what "burn" means. He must find out for himself.
Gen 2: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Adam had no personal experience with "good," "evil," or "die."
3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Was this not a true statement?
3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
In this context, what does "knew" mean? Does "naked" mean something different than "nude?" Implies something that can't be discussed on BB?
3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
In "that day" they didn't die in any context that Adam could understand.
3: 23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
This was not a punishment, merely something that must be done because circumstances changed thus
3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
The ground outside the garden was different than the ground inside the garden else all of creation would be "garden" and there would be no different "outside."
God didn't replant the thistles from the outside to the inside. God moved Adam to a new environment not as a punishment but so that he would not eat from the tree of life.
See, I can copy verses when it seems useful.
Gen 2: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Adam had no personal experience with "good," "evil," or "die."
3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Was this not a true statement?
3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
In this context, what does "knew" mean? Does "naked" mean something different than "nude?" Implies something that can't be discussed on BB?
3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
In "that day" they didn't die in any context that Adam could understand.
3: 23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
This was not a punishment, merely something that must be done because circumstances changed thus
3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
The ground outside the garden was different than the ground inside the garden else all of creation would be "garden" and there would be no different "outside."
God didn't replant the thistles from the outside to the inside. God moved Adam to a new environment not as a punishment but so that he would not eat from the tree of life.
See, I can copy verses when it seems useful.
Matt22:37-39
New Member
What is your question, your not helping me much. Maybe try and ask the question differently?
The only way I can answer from the vague little bit you have given...is that in both cases with the child and Adam and Eve, is they DISOBEYED the AUTHORITY over them...causing SIN/SEPARATION/DARKNESS...(death means separation...NO light, for God is light, means darkness absence of light) for God will not tolerate that as it goes against WHO HE IS.
Does that help or did I not understand what you are asking?
The only way I can answer from the vague little bit you have given...is that in both cases with the child and Adam and Eve, is they DISOBEYED the AUTHORITY over them...causing SIN/SEPARATION/DARKNESS...(death means separation...NO light, for God is light, means darkness absence of light) for God will not tolerate that as it goes against WHO HE IS.
Does that help or did I not understand what you are asking?
Matt22:37-39
New Member
I'm missing how the phrase is misunderstood. Its a given that all thing are either decreed or allowed by God. Knowing this, there is a reason He either decreed or allowed it to happen. This applies to both good and bad things. Its not so much a paraphrase on Romans 8 as it is admitting God is sovereign and has a purpose for every action even though we might have no idea why something happens.
where is that in the bible?
To Webdog, I see the confusion. What God ALLOWS is mans free will. Not so much He allows things to happen for a purpose....but He can take that which is bad and turn it around for good.
God is not the author of confusion or anything bad...Satan is. All good and perfect gifts come down from the father above.
We live in a fallen world, with a fallen nature, struggling with a fallen angel and our sin nature.
God's desire is that we yield and he does the work. I think the bible is pretty clear that the good God does is the WORK IN US...that is the good that Romans 8:28 is talking about
God knows ALL that will come to us in our lives, and some of that he dtermined to directly happen, others he permitted thru third parties, but in all things we go thru, it had to getfiltered thru him first, and He will grant us what is required to see us thru!
Matt22:37-39
New Member
God knows ALL that will come to us in our lives, and some of that he dtermined to directly happen, others he permitted thru third parties, but in all things we go thru, it had to getfiltered thru him first, and He will grant us what is required to see us thru!
I totally agree with this statement!...Thing is much like Moses and the million in the desert, WE can hasten the process or not by our walk with Him, or He will allow what it takes to bring us back, and out of LOVE make it possible to use us later for His glory!...Amen
Does that make sense...Yielding brings us closer...fighting the Spirit, causes much unneeded circumstances.