Christian and gay?

[Matt22:37-39]

CHRISTIAN AND GAY: Here is a topic that is very controversial…how can one be gay, or bisexual and still be a Christian? We think of those in the faith like RAY BOLTZ, writing and singing some of the most inspiring Godly music ever, before he came out in 2008. CLAY AKIN another singer, JENNIFER NAPP another Christian singer. This is probably one of the hardest struggles one could have in their faith…not so much of it being a “SIN” as everyone sins and to God no sin is worse or greater than another….but the fact that it INVOLVES one of humans most basic desires…LOVE and SEX. No one wants to be alone and not be able to share intimacy….I don’t! Acceptance is another big factor, one that is not easily attainable through those who are SUPPOSE to love you as Christ loved them. Why do we pick and choose which sins DO NOT make one worthy of RESPECT and ACCEPTANCE? Now granted if someone is HURTING another, especially one who is innocent, then that would deserve punishment at legal level. I say we live in a FALLEN WORLD…Shit Happens….to say that those who feel they were born that way, that they are wrong, that they are making a choice, is wrong…..that would be like telling someone who feels they are born in the wrong body, they are wrong, or a hermaphrodite they are wrong for having both sexes….Stuff happens during development! There are many reasons why one would desire the same sex and it isn’t for us to decide what it is.

So since stuff happens what are we going to do about it? I say we do what God does and LOOK AT ONES HEART! Do they have integrity and character? Do they desire God’s will for their life…what can I do to help them in these areas, to be all they can be. As one draws closer to God their desires become His DESIRES….that is all we are called to do is DRAW OTHERS TO HIM!....Let God Do The Work….To tell you the truth I do not see many Christian, or not getting all upset at other sins such as DIVORCE, LIVING TOGETHER, DRUGS and ALCOHOL, GLUTTONY, STEALING, LYING, GOSSIPING, COVETING….etc. see my point?

I just watched this show Lisa Lang...OUR AMERICA...I had taped the other night on the SUBJECT and thought they did an excellent job on portraying MANY aspects and thoughts of those who struggle with this dilemma…gay and Christian? WORTH WATCHING AS WE MAY KNOW SOMEONE WHO IS AND THIS GIVES US A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHO THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY GO THROUGH. They mainly only deal with guys…maybe because women are more acceptable…IDK?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvAHCMRN86o

 

[mont974x4]

1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. (NASB)


We can make all the excuses we want but we cannot claim to be saved and continue in these sins. We should note that Paul points out the past tense of their sinful state and their current state as having been sanctified and justified. 1 John is another excellent book on the current state of the Christian. We cannot continue living in sin and claim to be God. This is the whole point of the command to not take the Lord's name in vain. Vain means to no effect. We cannot claim the name of Christ without having had a deep and true impact on us, otherwise our claims are in vain and we will not see the kingdom of heaven.

Please understand that the homosexuality issue is one very dear to my heart because of its direct impact it has had on my family through the rebellion of 3 different people. It has been very difficult to stand firm for God and still show the love I have for these dear people...one of whom died from AIDS because of his sin. He left a traumatized wife and 3 sons behind.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

I understand, but the point I was making is why are OTHER SINS treated differently than that of homosexuality? There are only 2 verses in the new testament about it, and Jesus never spoke on the issue actually more was said about fornicating, adultery, divorce and women not preaching than homosexuality, yet that is the ONLY sin, that Christians have a fit about....all sin should be treated the same...Matt 18..1 Cor 5....It isn't our job to "FIX" anyone, that is God's job. Our job is to bring the sinner to Christ and He does the work....Just saying.

 

[mont974x4]

People have pet sins. They are either ones they love to hound on or ones they totally ignore. A prime example is gossip. I have rarely heard this addressed with any boldness from the pulpit. I did, and I heard about it. Sexual sin is extremely devastating regardless of whether it is straight or gay and that is another "why".

No, we don't fix anyone. However when someone claims to be a Christian and joins in fellowship with other Christians there is a implied accountability involved. As a member of a church we are giving others the right to hold us accountable. On one hand we have people denying this because they hate accountability. On the other hand we have people hammering on pet sins or refusing to address sin at all.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

I so agree with you...Gluttony is another...lol

I just feel you didn't understand what I am saying. I never said it was ok to sin. I said one sin should not be focused on while others are getting away with theirs.

EXAMPLE: Lets take your church and you know for a fact that there are COUPLES living together...you know that some men or women are having sex out of wedlock, and you know of several couples who divorced unbiblically and worse yet remarried, and there is a lesbian couple, or an openly gay male who has decided to remain celibate....know tell me WHO are you going to have problems with the MOST? Are they all going to be treated the same?...first of all the one who is gay and will never have feelings for the opposite sex no matter what is done...is the one living for God and is doing good....video shows these people.


I also feel that if one does NOT watch the video they have no idea what I am talking about...the video reveals the struggles these people go through and why and how they reconcile their FAITH with their sexuality...that's all.

 

[Scarlett O.]

In carrying on with that 1 Corinthians passage already mentioned, Paul said that sexual sins were different from other sins.

All sins are equal in that they separate us the exact same amount from God. The person who murders a child and the sweet little old lady who told a "white lie" to her neighbor to keep from hurting her feelings are both separated from God by their sins. Actually it's their sin nature that caused the murder and the white lie that equally separates them from God.

But all sins are not equal in consequence to the literal body, the spiritual Body of Christ, society, and the testimony of the believer.

Paul said this in 1 Corinthians 6:18-20 - "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies."

To me, Paul is saying that sexual sins, including homosexuality, harm us in a way that other sins don't. Our bodies are the Temple of the Holy Spirit he says. Right before this he says that a man who has sex with a prostitute is one flesh with her.

One flesh.

One flesh is a big and serious deal with God. And if our bodies are the Temple of the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit abides there, then it's perfectly alright for our God-given one-flesh spouse to abide their, too. I think that's what he means by "outside the body sins" verses "against the body sins".

Bringing a devil/sinful temptation-driven "one flesh" person "into" our Temple in terms of immoral sexual conduct is defiling that Temple. It pollutes us personally and grieves the Holy Spirit.

And it doesn't really matter how many times the New Testament mentions the sinfulness of homosexuality.

Once is enough for us to understand.

Should we differentiate between homosexual sin and hetereosexual sin? No, but we do. The farther and farther away we get from the standard of one man and one woman for one lifetime the more we frown upon it.

In reality, the hetereosexual adulterers and homosexual partners are equally repugnant to God.

They just don't equally repulse humanity. The former has been open for so long that we feign anger, but no longer try to stop it. The latter hasn't been socially acceptable in broad terms as long.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

I agree and well said, and if you watch the video you would see many also agree and have decided to live a chaste life due to this fact. Their homosexual feelings haven't changed and they will NEVER feel attraction to the opposite sex, so they have decided to HONOR God and His word by living chaste...but many cannot do that and have chosen to live in love with another, and still find peace with God and have a personal relationship with Him. And yet others cannot handle the dilemma and commit suicide or go their own way, because of the REJECTION of those who are just plain ignorant and unloving.

A person who is truly born again cannot be separated from God's love or their position IN Christ in the heavenly realms...but that doesn't mean their sin doesn't have consequences....I think for those who do not struggle with this sin as we have others we have to deal with, need to be compassionate and understanding of others sin that we may not understand. Like I said our job for anyone who struggles with any sin is to HELP THEM DRAW CLOSER TO GOD and let God do the WORK!

Can anyone agree with me on this?

 

[Jerome]

Is this the type of thing you're talking about?

A Battle I Face: An Interview with Vaughan Roberts—Celibacy Despite "Attractions"

Apparently Roberts has been a leading proponent of 'Reformed' theology in England. Here is his bio and sermons page on Monergism.com:

http://www.monergism.com/directory/...peakers-Lectures-and-Sermons/Vaughan-Roberts/

 

[annsni]

I understand, but the point I was making is why are OTHER SINS treated differently than that of homosexuality? There are only 2 verses in the new testament about it, and Jesus never spoke on the issue actually more was said about fornicating, adultery, divorce and women not preaching than homosexuality, yet that is the ONLY sin, that Christians have a fit about....all sin should be treated the same...Matt 18..1 Cor 5....It isn't our job to "FIX" anyone, that is God's job. Our job is to bring the sinner to Christ and He does the work....Just saying.

Is not homosexuality fornicating? How about the passage where Jesus speaks on marriage? Does He accept intimacy outside of marriage? If not, then there is no question that homosexuality is wrong because Jesus clearly stated that marriage is between a man and a woman.

Now, EVERY sin is damaging but in our culture today, we are being told that this one sin is good and normal and should be accepted. THAT is why there is so much spoken on it. If we were told that murder, theft and abuse were normal, we'd be fighting those just as much.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

I never said homosexuality wasn't wrong, in fact just the opposite. I am saying what CHURCHES and CHRISTIANS responsibility is in how they are treated!

I'm sorry, but I thought that was very clearly stated in the OP.

I also said you need to watch the video and then it may make more sense to you.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

Is this the type of thing you're talking about?

A Battle I Face: An Interview with Vaughan Roberts—Celibacy Despite "Attractions"

Apparently Roberts has been a leading proponent of 'Reformed' theology in England. Here is his bio and sermons page on Monergism.com:

http://www.monergism.com/directory/...peakers-Lectures-and-Sermons/Vaughan-Roberts/

OK, read the first one...yes he pretty much is saying what I am saying...cool!

 

[webdog]

I understand, but the point I was making is why are OTHER SINS treated differently than that of homosexuality? There are only 2 verses in the new testament about it, and Jesus never spoke on the issue actually more was said about fornicating, adultery, divorce and women not preaching than homosexuality, yet that is the ONLY sin, that Christians have a fit about....all sin should be treated the same...Matt 18..1 Cor 5....It isn't our job to "FIX" anyone, that is God's job. Our job is to bring the sinner to Christ and He does the work....Just saying.

Homosexuality IS fornication.

And please, we don't need to read cuss words on the baptistboard.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

OK, good you agree

 

[Revmitchell]

I understand, but the point I was making is why are OTHER SINS treated differently than that of homosexuality?

Because no one has created a movement to force Americans through the use of force (government) to accept gluttony as and acceptable lifestyle. Second the consequences of gluttony is far less that homosexuality. Why does this have to be explained?

 

[Matt22:37-39]

That's funny GLUTTONY was never mentioned in my OP of examples that many Christians accept, fornication in their church, couples living together, and those who divorce unbiblically...let's juts stick with those right there....now tell me why Homosexuality is treated DIFFERENTLY than those sins?

 

[Revmitchell]

That's funny GLUTTONY was never mentioned in my OP of examples that many Christians accept, fornication in their church, couples living together, and those who divorce unbiblically...let's juts stick with those right there....now tell me why Homosexuality is treated DIFFERENTLY than those sins?

Change gluttony to whatever you want and reread the post. No further explanation needed.

 

[annsni]

That's funny GLUTTONY was never mentioned in my OP of examples that many Christians accept, fornication in their church, couples living together, and those who divorce unbiblically...let's juts stick with those right there....now tell me why Homosexuality is treated DIFFERENTLY than those sins?

Who says that it is treated differently?

 

[jilphn1022]

In carrying on with that 1 Corinthians passage already mentioned, Paul said that sexual sins were different from other sins.

All sins are equal in that they separate us the exact same amount from God. The person who murders a child and the sweet little old lady who told a "white lie" to her neighbor to keep from hurting her feelings are both separated from God by their sins. Actually it's their sin nature that caused the murder and the white lie that equally separates them from God.

But all sins are not equal in consequence to the literal body, the spiritual Body of Christ, society, and the testimony of the believer.

Paul said this in 1 Corinthians 6:18-20 - "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies."

To me, Paul is saying that sexual sins, including homosexuality, harm us in a way that other sins don't. Our bodies are the Temple of the Holy Spirit he says. Right before this he says that a man who has sex with a prostitute is one flesh with her.

One flesh.

One flesh is a big and serious deal with God. And if our bodies are the Temple of the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit abides there, then it's perfectly alright for our God-given one-flesh spouse to abide their, too. I think that's what he means by "outside the body sins" verses "against the body sins".

Bringing a devil/sinful temptation-driven "one flesh" person "into" our Temple in terms of immoral sexual conduct is defiling that Temple. It pollutes us personally and grieves the Holy Spirit.

And it doesn't really matter how many times the New Testament mentions the sinfulness of homosexuality.

Once is enough for us to understand.

Should we differentiate between homosexual sin and hetereosexual sin? No, but we do. The farther and farther away we get from the standard of one man and one woman for one lifetime the more we frown upon it.

In reality, the hetereosexual adulterers and homosexual partners are equally repugnant to God.

They just don't equally repulse humanity. The former has been open for so long that we feign anger, but no longer try to stop it. The latter hasn't been socially acceptable in broad terms as long.

Well-stated!! I wish, that I had your writing skills! I know,that it is a gift and I admire your talent to do such an excellent job in explaining what the Bible says about this subject.
We have sins that our laws punish,but not all of our sins are punished in our system of law. For example if you gossiped which could ruin someone forever even if the stuff that you were spreading was true or lie, you would not go to jail for it. But in God's sight it is still a sin.
The wonderful Lord Jesus has made it possible for not only to ask for forgiveness of our sins,but He has promised to HELP us overcome our sins.
Sinless perfection, no!! But what a great goal to aim for with the Lord help!!

 

[Matt22:37-39]

Again off topic...I never said the act of homosexuality was right. The point you guys are purposely ignoring because you know I' right is...why does the CHURCH treat those who commit the SAME IMMORAL sins that Scarlett mentions, yet the church does nothing to them. Where I live this is a fact...I do not know of one church in my area who practices CHURCH DISCIPLINE!

Every church I have been in has couples living together and having sex ourselves of marriage and NOTHING is said or done about it at all!

Nothing I said in my OP is wrong....and again NNE has watched the video so maybe you shouldn't POST until you do!...just saying.

My post was written based off of the VIDEO...so many are not getting the OP because they refuse to listen to truth and watch the video!

 

[Revmitchell]

Again off topic...I never said the act of homosexuality was right. The point you guys are purposely ignoring because you know I' right is...why does the CHURCH treat those who commit the SAME IMMORAL sins that Scarlett mentions, yet the church does nothing to them. Where I live this is a fact...I do not know of one church in my area who practices CHURCH DISCIPLINE!

Every church I have been in has couples living together and having sex ourselves of marriage and NOTHING is said or done about it at all!

Nothing I said in my OP is wrong....and again NNE has watched the video so maybe you shouldn't POST until you do!...just saying.

My post was written based off of the VIDEO...so many are not getting the OP because they refuse to listen to truth and watch the video!

Yes, only you have thought this out thoroughly and watched the video.

But then again you basically ignored my points. Good luck with that.