Is "Forsaking the assembling of ourselves....

[ktn4eg]

....together as the manner of some is...." (Hebrews 10:25) a DEFINITE "willful sin" as the writer of Hebrews goes on to talk about in Hebrews 10:26-30??

Most all of the commentaries/articles/whatever that I've read want to put a "distinction" between what the writer of Hebrews talks about in, say, Hebrews 10-23-26, and that which the writer of Hebrews talks about in Hebrews 10:26-30.

What are your thoughts concerning this?

 

[timf]

....together as the manner of some is...." (Hebrews 10:25) a DEFINITE "willful sin" as the writer of Hebrews goes on to talk about in Hebrews 10:26-30??

I see verses 24 and 25 as more of an appositive. I see the previous verses culmination in verse 23 with steadfast faith. I see verse 26 starting to reiterate the concept of a steadfast faith by beginning to make use of an illustration based on the hypothesis of what punishment would be due discarded faith.

 

[Iconoclast]

....together as the manner of some is...." (Hebrews 10:25) a DEFINITE "willful sin" as the writer of Hebrews goes on to talk about in Hebrews 10:26-30??

Most all of the commentaries/articles/whatever that I've read want to put a "distinction" between what the writer of Hebrews talks about in, say, Hebrews 10-23-26, and that which the writer of Hebrews talks about in Hebrews 10:26-30.

What are your thoughts concerning this?

the religion of judaism was legal...christianity was illegal at that time.jews were being warned that to go back to judaism [to avoid the persecution]was indeed apostasy,and wilful sin. All of the warning passages were given for this reason.

 

[ktn4eg]

the religion of judaism was legal...christianity was illegal at that time.jews were being warned that to go back to judaism [to avoid the persecution]was indeed apostasy,and wilful sin. All of the warning passages were given for this reason.

So, are you then saying that "forsaking the assembling of ourselves together in our current day and age is NOT a willful sin if the "forsaking" was caused by, e.g., "I just DIDN'T FEEL like going to the service(s)"??

 

[ktn4eg]

I see verses 24 and 25 as more of an appositive. I see the previous verses culmination in verse 23 with steadfast faith. I see verse 26 starting to reiterate the concept of a steadfast faith by beginning to make use of an illustration based on the hypothesis of what punishment would be due discarded faith.

So then, are you saying that there is NO CONNECTION between our "forsaking of ourselves together" was due to, let's say, "Well, I just didn't FEEL like going to the service(s) on Sunday" and it being a WILLFUL sin??

 

[awaken]

....together as the manner of some is...." (Hebrews 10:25) a DEFINITE "willful sin" as the writer of Hebrews goes on to talk about in Hebrews 10:26-30??

Most all of the commentaries/articles/whatever that I've read want to put a "distinction" between what the writer of Hebrews talks about in, say, Hebrews 10-23-26, and that which the writer of Hebrews talks about in Hebrews 10:26-30.

What are your thoughts concerning this?

Forsaking the assembly is FORSAKING IT! That means not going any more!
Like saying " I quit! I am never going back"...

 

[Iconoclast]

So, are you then saying that "forsaking the assembling of ourselves together in our current day and age is NOT a willful sin if the "forsaking" was caused by, e.g., "I just DIDN'T FEEL like going to the service(s)"??

The hebrews were in danger and being warned of apostasy. We can learn from this text ,along with a couple of other texts...
this was a settled habit with some of them.

I would approach it from other texts:

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Christians are still under the ten commandments,and are to keep the Lord's day Holy.God is Lord over their time...6 days labor, one day in 7 the Lord's day.

7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for

they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Professed christians cannot obey these texts if they absent themselves from the local assembly....because "they do not feel like it".

They cannot really obey many other teachings if they do not actively attend to the means of grace. There are no lone ranger christians...only lone ranger false brethren.:thumbsup:

 

[InTheLight]

Forsaking the assembly is FORSAKING IT! That means not going any more!
Like saying " I quit! I am never going back"...

Agree 100%. Never attending church again is something we are not to do. Doesn't say it is a sin. Therefore, not going on one particular Sunday is not a sin.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Isn't it about perspective though? Let's say I go to a church for 3 years, and find through careful study that the church's doctrine is way out of whack. The only other churches are also IMO off page. Should I leave and start a church in my house, or endure?

 

[Revmitchell]

Isn't it about perspective though? Let's say I go to a church for 3 years, and find through careful study that the church's doctrine is way out of whack. The only other churches are also IMO off page. Should I leave and start a church in my house, or endure?

Move...............

 

[ktn4eg]

Agree 100%. Never attending church again is something we are not to do. Doesn't say it is a sin. Therefore, not going on one particular Sunday is not a sin.

I am therefore correct in saying that you (InTheLight) do NOT believe it is a sin ("willful" or otherwise) to miss, let's say, TWO SUNDAYS IN A ROW, simply because, "Well, I just didn't 'Feel' like going"??!!??

 

[Iconoclast]

Agree 100%. Never attending church again is something we are not to do. Doesn't say it is a sin. Therefore, not going on one particular Sunday is not a sin.

Lets take a look:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

verse 26 starts with the word ....for......if we sin.....wilfully


looks as if not assembling was being called sin.

failing to keep the one day in seven in the OT was to profane the day.

56 Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Nehemiah 13:17
Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day?

If you are not providentially hindered...why would a believer not desire to gather with the assembled local body of believers???

 

[Oldtimer]

If you are not providentially hindered...why would a believer not desire to gather with the assembled local body of believers???

The desire to spend another weekend at the beach.
The desire to go to grandkids ball games/practice.
The desire to play an early round of golf with buddies.
The desire to have the grass in the front yard a perfect height.
The desire to sleep off the prior nights gluttany.
The desire to -- whatever excuse -- to put something else before God.

Which desire is stronger on Sunday morning, Sunday evening and Bible study during the week?

 

[awaken]

The desire to spend another weekend at the beach.
The desire to go to grandkids ball games/practice.
The desire to play an early round of golf with buddies.
The desire to have the grass in the front yard a perfect height.
The desire to sleep off the prior nights gluttany.
The desire to -- whatever excuse -- to put something else before God.

Which desire is stronger on Sunday morning, Sunday evening and Bible study during the week?

Our desire for God should be everyday! We should be in a state of worship and awe everyday! We should be seeking his will for our life everyday! Our relationship with God is minute by minute..
If we keep this state of worship daily...come the one day we chose to worship together..our churches could not hold the members !

Most of our churches are dead inside...they have kicked the Holy Spirit out and filled it full of mans programs...Jesus is on the outside knocking to get in!

You find a spirit filled church..where the HS is welcome together with truth..it is powerful! Our church has come alive and our members can not wait to get together on any day! We go anticipating what God is going to do! I have seen deliverance of all types of sin, repentant lives, salvation and baptisms almost every service!!
The sabbath was made for man! It is for our benefit to be with fellowbelievers! All coming together with their gifting from God... brought together to build up the believers..freedom to worship with all our hearts! POWERFUL!!

When we will let the HS work in us and through us it is an awesome thing to come into a service with the unity of one thing... Seeking him(our head) as a body!! To get in line with His agenda for the day..not mans!

 

[InTheLight]

Lets take a look:


verse 26 starts with the word ....for......if we sin.....wilfully


looks as if not assembling was being called sin.

Looks like forsaking, i.e. to permanently stop doing something, in this case church attendance, is a sin.

 

[InTheLight]

I am therefore correct in saying that you (InTheLight) do NOT believe it is a sin ("willful" or otherwise) to miss, let's say, TWO SUNDAYS IN A ROW, simply because, "Well, I just didn't 'Feel' like going"??!!??

Missing church is not the sin. This hypothetical Christian that "doesn't feel like attending" ought to examine themselves to see if there is other sin that is causing their caviler attitude to attending church.

 

[ktn4eg]

Missing church is not the sin. This hypothetical Christian that "doesn't feel like attending" ought to examine themselves to see if there is other sin that is causing their caviler attitude to attending church.

What awaken and InTheLight posted is IMHO a fairly accurate commentary on the state of what (in SOME cases, NOT all [Praise God!!]) passes for today's brand of "seeker-friendly" churches (can U say "JOEL OSTEEN, etc.!!??!!).

Sadly, IMHO, many local churches/ministries have gone WAY TOO FAR in "trying to 'reach the unreachable,'" that they've lost that "John-the-Baptist [n.b., He was NOT {FWIW} called -"the Methodist," or -"Lutheran," etc. {!!!!}])" style of message, i.e., "R - E - P - E - N - T
for the Kingdom of God is A-T H-A-N-D"!!!

How many of my friends out there in BB Land will testify to the accuracy of my observation(s)?? :thumbs: :tonofbricks: :BangHead:

 

[awaken]

What awaken and InTheLight posted is IMHO a fairly accurate commentary on the state of what (in SOME cases, NOT all [Praise God!!]) passes for today's brand of "seeker-friendly" churches (can U say "JOEL OSTEEN, etc.!!??!!).

Sadly, IMHO, many local churches/ministries have gone WAY TOO FAR in "trying to 'reach the unreachable,'" that they've lost that "John-the-Baptist [n.b., He was NOT {FWIW} called -"the Methodist," or -"Lutheran," etc. {!!!!}])" style of message, i.e., "R - E - P - E - N - T
for the Kingdom of God is A-T H-A-N-D"!!!

How many of my friends out there in BB Land will testify to the accuracy of my observation(s)?? :thumbs: :tonofbricks: :BangHead:

Maybe you can just come out and say exactly what I posted was not in line with what God wants?

 

[Iconoclast]

Looks like forsaking, i.e. to permanently stop doing something, in this case church attendance, is a sin.

yes...agreed. In hebrews 10:25 ...the warning was indeed for apostasy. keep in mind that this happens in stages most of the time.

The larger question for us to face in our day....in a positive fashion is...

What is our view of God, His church, and his Kingdom????

Has He left us to just ...FREESTYLE....do what we feel like , worship in anyway we "feel' like....if we feel like it.?
Or has God given instuctions as to who and what the church is...why we are to assemble...when we are to assemble.....what we are to do...or not do, when we assemble???
I do not mean in a rigid forced and fleshly way...that awaken spoke of leading to dead worship,and a dead church. I mean we are given 6 days to do all the other activities.....we should eagerly anticipate the blessing of God on the means of grace available and commanded for us to partake of.:thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

The desire to spend another weekend at the beach.
The desire to go to grandkids ball games/practice.
The desire to play an early round of golf with buddies.
The desire to have the grass in the front yard a perfect height.
The desire to sleep off the prior nights gluttany.
The desire to -- whatever excuse -- to put something else before God.

Which desire is stronger on Sunday morning, Sunday evening and Bible study during the week?

Anything we put before God in our mind and heart...is an idol.Even football games and other good and lawful recreations can become an idol when they become what we are thinking about rather than Spiritual things;

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.