Antinomianism

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I have been grappling with a selection of church I should go to & found one that I assumed had their beliefs squared away. When I asked pointed questions however about theology, I was told that they hold to a "New Covenant Theology" so I asked this board and others about NCT because I never heard of it. I believe it boils down to "antinomianism" a word that was expressed but never explained.

Here is what Websters has to say....

Definition of ANTINOMIAN
1: one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation

2: one who rejects a socially established morality

Still confused, I then pulled to someone who has been an INTERNET mentor, Sinclair Ferguson.....he cleared it up via this sermon on "The Marrow of Modern Divinity" ...a 3 parter. The 3rd part discusses Antinomianism. I warn you however that it is a sermon so over an hour is recommended for listening to it ....however it is extremely comprehensive & well done. They don't make them like Sinclair anymore.:thumbs::applause:

http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=1121071131280

 

[12strings]

I would make sure that what they mean by NCT is the same as the definitions you have found on the Internet...

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I would make sure that what they mean by NCT is the same as the definitions you have found on the Internet...

By now 12strings, you should know that I do my homework. It is exactly as Sinclair describes. Now why would it take that church 18 weeks to indoctrinate a new member? conversely the OPC does a few week course explaining to potential church members what they are all about. That way you go in with your eyes open. too bad I am not a Paedo Baptist & have an extremely low tolerance for legalistic types & Hyper Calvinists

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I would make sure that what they mean by NCT is the same as the definitions you have found on the Internet...

Oh my..... Double Post!

Sorry

 

[Yeshua1]

I have been grappling with a selection of church I should go to & found one that I assumed had their beliefs squared away. When I asked pointed questions however about theology, I was told that they hold to a "New Covenant Theology" so I asked this board and others about NCT because I never heard of it. I believe it boils down to "antinomianism" a word that was expressed but never explained.

Here is what Websters has to say....

Definition of ANTINOMIAN
1: one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation

2: one who rejects a socially established morality

Still confused, I then pulled to someone who has been an INTERNET mentor, Sinclair Ferguson.....he cleared it up via this sermon on "The Marrow of Modern Divinity" ...a 3 parter. The 3rd part discusses Antinomianism. I warn you however that it is a sermon so over an hour is recommended for listening to it ....however it is extremely comprehensive & well done. They don't make them like Sinclair anymore.:thumbs::applause:

http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=1121071131280

basically, NCT differs from classic reformed faith in how the law of God is viewed, as NCT sees jesus fulfilling all of the law, and that today we need to focus on tjhe "Law of Christ", which would mean the commands to the NT believer sin the NT only are to be seen as viable to us today!

also , the term "anti" has been leveled against thsoe of us holding to "free Grace" of being lawless, but the truth is, that we are NOT saying that the Law moral aspects not binding on Christians for behaviour today, just that we obey God by walking in the Holy Spirit, and by doing that, our conduct will be what God demands!

As we see Justification by faith alone/Grace alone, but sanctification as walking in the Spirit and obeying God in order to mature more into like ness of jesus, while Reformed tend to blur the distinctiveness between those 2 concepts...

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

basically, NCT differs from classic reformed faith in how the law of God is viewed, as NCT sees jesus fulfilling all of the law, and that today we need to focus on tjhe "Law of Christ", which would mean the commands to the NT believer sin the NT only are to be seen as viable to us today!

also , the term "anti" has been leveled against thsoe of us holding to "free Grace" of being lawless, but the truth is, that we are NOT saying that the Law moral aspects not binding on Christians for behaviour today, just that we obey God by walking in the Holy Spirit, and by doing that, our conduct will be what God demands!

As we see Justification by faith alone/Grace alone, but sanctification as walking in the Spirit and obeying God in order to mature more into like ness of jesus, while Reformed tend to blur the distinctiveness between those 2 concepts...

Yeshua, have you listened to Sinclair Ferguson's sermon?

 

[Dale-c]

Yes, the NCT is a problem. My brother, who believes classic covenant theology had some issues with people believing in NCT at a church plant that he was overseeing.

He was considered a legalist because he did not ignore the OT law. Funny thing is, fundamentalists would consider HIM to be antinomian or at least liberal for not adhering to the man made traditions of the 20th century.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes, the NCT is a problem. My brother, who believes classic covenant theology had some issues with people believing in NCT at a church plant that he was overseeing.

He was considered a legalist because he did not ignore the OT law. Funny thing is, fundamentalists would consider HIM to be antinomian or at least liberal for not adhering to the man made traditions of the 20th century.

The Pastor I have been in discussion with embrases New Covenant Theology. This means that they do not believe that the Moral Law is binding on believers today unless it is also commanded in the N.T. Basically, they say that the Law of Christ replaces the Law of God, as though God's law was in some sense inadequate and the Lord Jesus had to improve it. I don't think so. What it finally boils down to is that NCT churches only keep nine commandments.

Im not convinced that NCT is scriptural... Matt 5: 18 ... I tell you the truth, until heaven & earth disappear, not the smallest letter (Jot) nor the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

It is my belief that not everything has been accomplished....and thats what I told this guy.

Whats you opinion?

 

[mont974x4]

Christ did accomplish it all, as in all that was necessary for the sin debt of the elect to be paid in full. He was the final perfect sacrifice.

My take on NCT, is not that Jesus made the old more perfect, but the Law could not make anyone righteous. This is based largely on Hebrews 8 which ends with:

Heb 8:13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (NASB)

In addition to Galations, Col 2, and Romans 14.

The reason that some, including myself, talk about 9 instead of 10 commandments is because only 9 are re-commanded in some form in the NT. The sabbath is not found as a commandment applicable under the NC. One thing to keep in mind is that we do not see the 9 as being applied as part of the Law and the OC, but as commandments given to the NT church. Again, this is because of the NC instituted by and through Jesus.


That does not mean the OT is obsolete or useless. We preach the whole counsel of God's Word. The OT is looking forward to the Cross and the wholly sufficient work of Christ. How can we even begin to appreciate what He did if we don't know what the OC entailed?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Christ did accomplish it all, as in all that was necessary for the sin debt of the elect to be paid in full. He was the final perfect sacrifice.

My take on NCT, is not that Jesus made the old more perfect, but the Law could not make anyone righteous. This is based largely on Hebrews 8 which ends with:

Heb 8:13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (NASB)


In addition to Galations, Col 2, and Romans 14.

The reason that some, including myself, talk about 9 instead of 10 commandments is because only 9 are re-commanded in some form in the NT. The sabbath is not found as a commandment applicable under the NC. One thing to keep in mind is that we do not see the 9 as being applied as part of the Law and the OC, but as commandments given to the NT church. Again, this is because of the NC instituted by and through Jesus.


That does not mean the OT is obsolete or useless. We preach the whole counsel of God's Word. The OT is looking forward to the Cross and the wholly sufficient work of Christ. How can we even begin to appreciate what He did if we don't know what the OC entailed?

Have you listened to the sermon by Sinclair Ferguson brother?

 

[mont974x4]

Nope. I don't have a solid hour to spare today. I was just sharing my thoughts on the NC.

 

[OldRegular]

Covenant Theology or New Covenant Theology: It seems to me that the demands of Jesus Christ exceed the demands of the Ten Commandments!

Matthew 22:36-40
36. Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38. This is the first and great commandment.
39. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[mont974x4]

Covenant Theology or New Covenant Theology: It seems to me that the demands of Jesus Christ exceed the demands of the Ten Commandments!

Matthew 22:36-40
36. Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38. This is the first and great commandment.
39. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

That is true. Keeping a list of rules to check off is easy in comparison to knowing one another well enough to really love as we should.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Nope. I don't have a solid hour to spare today. I was just sharing my thoughts on the NC.

It was provided for your spiritual enrichment & edification!

 

[Yeshua1]

Christ did accomplish it all, as in all that was necessary for the sin debt of the elect to be paid in full. He was the final perfect sacrifice.

My take on NCT, is not that Jesus made the old more perfect, but the Law could not make anyone righteous. This is based largely on Hebrews 8 which ends with:

Heb 8:13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (NASB)

In addition to Galations, Col 2, and Romans 14.

The reason that some, including myself, talk about 9 instead of 10 commandments is because only 9 are re-commanded in some form in the NT. The sabbath is not found as a commandment applicable under the NC. One thing to keep in mind is that we do not see the 9 as being applied as part of the Law and the OC, but as commandments given to the NT church. Again, this is because of the NC instituted by and through Jesus.


That does not mean the OT is obsolete or useless. We preach the whole counsel of God's Word. The OT is looking forward to the Cross and the wholly sufficient work of Christ. How can we even begin to appreciate what He did if we don't know what the OC entailed?

Jesus totally kept and fulfille dthe Law of God, so that we are rightous and law keepers because now we are found in him, and the NT understanding is that the law as a moral code written in us, and the Holy Spirit in us ids the means to live as we should now!

 

[Yeshua1]

The Pastor I have been in discussion with embrases New Covenant Theology. This means that they do not believe that the Moral Law is binding on believers today unless it is also commanded in the N.T. Basically, they say that the Law of Christ replaces the Law of God, as though God's law was in some sense inadequate and the Lord Jesus had to improve it. I don't think so. What it finally boils down to is that NCT churches only keep nine commandments.

Im not convinced that NCT is scriptural... Matt 5: 18 ... I tell you the truth, until heaven & earth disappear, not the smallest letter (Jot) nor the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

It is my belief that not everything has been accomplished....and thats what I told this guy.

Whats you opinion?

wasn't though the "until everyhting was accomplished" fulfilled with death of Christ though?

 

[Jerome]

This CT/NCT rift in the fledgling 'Reformed Baptist' movement developed several decades ago ostensibly over this sabbatarianism issue. But John Reisinger points out it was mostly a manufactured controversy by certain Reformed Baptist leaders to deflect attention from the growing criticism of their own extreme authoritarianism:

This is the one thing that has hindered and hampered the Reformed Baptist movement ever since the doctrines of grace became secondary to the all consuming drive for a "true New Testament institution with duly authorized officers." There is a sense in which "law/grace/Sabbath" is not really the heart of the present controversy among Reformed Baptists. It is, in some cases, a smoke screen that men use to keep their congregation from discussing the whole issue of authority and liberty of conscience. This is not always the case. Some Godly men are concerned with what they feel (wrongly but sincerely) is real doctrinal error. However, some men see their personal power destroyed if their view of eldership is wrong. These men drag the Sabbath out as a red herring.

http://solochristo.com/theology/Church/reiwh.htm

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

This CT/NCT rift in the fledgling 'Reformed Baptist' movement developed several decades ago ostensibly over this sabbatarianism issue. But John Reisinger points out it was mostly a manufactured controversy by certain Reformed Baptist leaders to deflect attention from the growing criticism of their own extreme authoritarianism:



http://solochristo.com/theology/Church/reiwh.htm

Well I consider Sinclair Ferguson both a Reformed Presbyterian scholar (He was in charge of the Systematic Theology dept at Westminster) & a very godly man & he has pointed out grave errors in the NCT agenda. Would that someone would actually listen to his commentary ....then feel free to express an opinion!:thumbs:

 

[Yeshua1]

Well I consider Sinclair Ferguson both a Reformed Presbyterian scholar (He was in charge of the Systematic Theology dept at Westminster) & a very godly man & he has pointed out grave errors in the NCT agenda. Would that someone would actually listen to his commentary ....then feel free to express an opinion!:thumbs:

Think that we now do have Only 9 commandments carried over to the NT church, as sabbatth was JUST for isreal, we have the lords day!

Also, the Law in BOTH OT/NT still the same, as it would be the expression of the Moral rule/code of God, but that today under the new Covenat we have the means to live for Christ as ought to BY the person and powering of the Spirit!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Think that we now do have Only 9 commandments carried over to the NT church, as sabbatth was JUST for isreal, we have the lords day!

You think do you? Let me ask you, you & I are US Marines & we just narrowly escaped getting a round from a snipers rifle & ducked down behind cover. We both shot at the miscreant before ducking. You say to me, did you get him & I say I think so .... now do you step into a possible line of fire because I think so or do you prize your life to where you confirm that kill?

Get my point......dont think, KNOW! Your spiritual life might hang in the balance.