Holy Fire: The Miracle of Holy Saturday at the Tomb of Christ … by Haris Skarlakidis

[Yeshua1]

As do Catholic Saints. In fact that is their primary function until the final Judgement.

As do the Catholic Saints. Which is why prayers to saints usually end with "pray for us".

Yes.

Well, what is the definition of Mediator? Only one person can put us in a right relationship with God and that is Jesus Christ. But that isn't the only purpose of mediation. These also are for mediation 1) A person who tries to make peace 2) a person who deals tactfully with another 3) someone who negotiates for another. A Christian Apologist can be consider a mediator with this definition of mediation . The specific role of mediation of making one right with God is held only by one that is Jesus Christs. But Christians are called on to take on these other roles.



Is it a question to whether God could do that for her? Or do you just find it unlikely?

That is your belief and the belief of people on this board and I don't have a problem with you believing that. However, I believe differently and I believe the Old Testament foreshadows every aspect of Jesus' life to include who gave birth to him. My premise of thought comes from God's soverienty in that Mary was chosen and created for this very task. The assumption by most here is that anyone (and I dare say one person even said even a prostitute) equally could have been considered. But that is our differences.

Do you see dead saints praying for/interceding on behalf of the living though?

Do you hold ALL christians as being saints, or just a select few who "earned it?"

what does mary do for sinners during the hail mary and Rosary that jesus cannot do for them?

think that you are quite often giving 'partially true" answers to the various questions here, as almost are citing them as a catholic Apologist would desire to have thm answered, but not the "official and whole catholic position!"

 

[Thinkingstuff]

You forgot to add the following views on mary, accepted by popes/cardinals/laity alike within the RCC!

Just for a clarification. An accepted view does not equal dogma. Two different animals

Mary is Mother of all Christians

Personally I don't know why this would be an issue. As she is the forerunner of all Christians in 1) obedience 2) Knowledge of Jesus divinity 3) understanding of his messianic mission 4) of his Salvation. She's the first to believe all these things.

Co-Redemptrix

again not dogma. And anyone who obey's God co-operates with God either in mediation (prayer) or the saving work of God (evangelization). Mary was an instrument as are each of us of evangelization.

Mediatrix

Already spoke about this

Queen of Heaven

Yes we believe in Christian crowning. And we believe that Rev 12 refers to her.

Reparations to the Virgin Mary

I don't know what you mean by that.

So that makes it look like your prior answer was 'protestant correct!"

I don't know what you mean by that either. those aren't dogmas so you again are wrong.

 

[Yeshua1]

Just for a clarification. An accepted view does not equal dogma. Two different animals


Personally I don't know why this would be an issue. As she is the forerunner of all Christians in 1) obedience 2) Knowledge of Jesus divinity 3) understanding of his messianic mission 4) of his Salvation. She's the first to believe all these things.

again not dogma. And anyone who obey's God co-operates with God either in mediation (prayer) or the saving work of God (evangelization). Mary was an instrument as are each of us of evangelization.

Already spoke about this


Yes we believe in Christian crowning. And we believe that Rev 12 refers to her.
I don't know what you mean by that.


I don't know what you mean by that either. those aren't dogmas so you again are wrong.

mary CANNOT be the woman in Chapter 12, as the passage states that Satan chased her out into the wilderness 1260 days!

Accepted view means that while not a dogma, still taught and seen as being true regarding mary and her role, correct?

 

[evangelist-7]

ThinkingStuff,

May I ask what your position is on the historical apparitions of Mary?
May I ask what your position is on the details given in the Holy Fire book?
.

 

[Yeshua1]

ThinkingStuff,

May I ask what your position is on the historical apparitions of Mary?
May I ask what your position is on the details given in the Holy Fire book?
.

what do you think?

 

[Scarlett O.]

I’m drawing a blank on this one … please provide your verses! I see many verses asking people to just BELIEVE in Jesus and His the gospel ... by any means! The Bible surely does NOT say to ignore signs which accompany the gospel.

I never said to ignore signs and wonders. I said that the Bible said to test them and I cited several verses both in the Old and New Testament where the devil used very real, but very illegimate signs and wonders to lead people to a false gospel.

Oh, you must have missed the last verse that I cited. Romans 10:17. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God."

Yes, belief in Jesus and His gospel saves. But let me give the above verse in context and look at the vital importance of the Word in bringing that belief about. Pay attention to the sequence.

Romans 10:9-17 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [1] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. [2] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? [3] and [4] how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Your Matthew 24 is talking about the future Great Tribulation period … talk about grasping at straws!

All right, then. What about the other passages I cited?

And why doesn't this cautious pessimism apply to when the apostles were evangelizing? Gee, I thought the devil was around then too!

Who's being pessimistic?

The apostles, including Paul, were anointed by Christ personally to perform signs and wonders to give credibility to the gospel. And yes, the devil was around then, too.

• The devil was performing imitation acts during the time of the apostles also. The girl with the evil spirit that followed Paul around. She was prophecying, yet Paul rebuked the evil spirit.
• Simon the sorceror was commited great signs and wonder and people believed in them and called him "The Great Power of God. Peter rebuked him.

I have preached the gospel in Jesus' name to heathens ... given them gospel tracts, NTs, Bibles, etc. to read later, and prayed for the sick, lame, etc. to be healed in Jesus' name … and they were healed instantly. And the Holy Spirit has done all of this ... for He is the Workhorse Manifestation of the Triune Godhead.If you choose to give the glory to Satan for this, I say you are committing
the modern-day version of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (or very close to it).

Where did I give glory to Satan for ANYTHING? Brother, that's very gross words to accuse me of.

Where did I give glory to Satan for YOUR personal actions?

You continue to claim that I and others are blaspheming the Holy Spirit merely because we wish to test the spirits and test all things. I don't understand that.

Praise the Lord for saving millions and healing millions today ... in spite of the unbelief of the cessationists!

Where did I claim to be a cessationist? Where did I claim "unbelief" in the Lord.

Brother, I don't know why the moderators still allow you here. You have labeled me a blaspheming unbeliever.

I specifically said that I did NOT discount signs and wonders and that I believed that God still used them to saved people.

You ASKED for replies. I gave you mine.

The Bible is clear, from the Old Testament to the New Testament, that the devil used signs and wonders to deceive people and that Christians should be wary and test the spirits.

I don't think there is anything else that I can say.

.

 

[evangelist-7]

The Bible is clear, from the Old Testament to the New Testament,
that the devil used signs and wonders to deceive people
and that Christians should be wary and test the spirits.

Gee, did Jesus, Paul, and the others need to test the spirits also?
BTW, testing a spirit or person is asking it or him whether Jesus Christ has come in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3).
Of course, everyone knows historically that Jesus came in the flesh,
so IMO this is Christian code-language for did God come in the flesh.

Let's see, how would that work?
Jim prays in Jesus' name for a lady to be healed of whatever.
And the lady is healed of whatever.
Just who is poor Jim supposed to test ... Jesus, me, the lady?
Please advise ... gracias, senora.
BTW, how's Brett doin'?
.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

mary CANNOT be the woman in Chapter 12, as the passage states that Satan chased her out into the wilderness 1260 days!

Accepted view means that while not a dogma, still taught and seen as being true regarding mary and her role, correct?

why not? Lets look at it again 1260/365 = 3.45 years Matthew 2:13-14

Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him.” 14 And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt

Matthew 2:19-21

But when Herod died, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20 saying, “Rise, take the child and his mother and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the child's life are dead.” 21 And he rose and took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel.

Accordingly King Herod is considered to have died in 4 BC giving an earlier date to the birth of Jesus than 0 AD. However reading Josephus we can discover that

Josephus tells us that Herod died after a lunar eclipse.[32] He gives an account of events between this eclipse and his death, and between his death and Passover. A partial eclipse[33] took place on March 13, 4 BCE,[34] about 29 days before Passover, and this eclipse is usually taken to be the one referred to by Josephus.[35] There were however three other, total, eclipses around this time, and there are proponents of both 5 BCE[36]– with two total eclipses,[37][38] and 1 BCE.

In all likelyhood Jesus could have been in Egypt precicely for the time indicated in the book of revelation as his life was sought by King Herod the Great who was totally invested in the world system aligning him with Satan's ruling.
Also lets take a look at Revelation 12

And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.2 She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth.

Most protestants hold that the woman in this vision isn't a specific woman but rather Israel or the Church. Which leads me to point out this question. If it is just refering to Israel or the Church who is the baby she is giving birth to? Well if its specifically Jesus (singular specific individual). and if the Great red dragon is specific to Satan why wouldn't then the woman be specific to Mary? It would seem odd in speach to be inconsistent in speaking in this manner. I personally believe that the woman is Mary, Israel and the Church but the representation of the latter two is symbolized by the actual person who gave birth to Jesus Christ. Just as the baby is the person of Jesus Christ also representing God in God's entirety (Ie the Trinity) and the Great red dragon is Satan also a reflection of the world system. Thus it is totally reasonable to hold that the period of days is the time the Family fled Herod and spent in Egypt before returning. thus Matthew states

This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.”

 

[Thinkingstuff]

ThinkingStuff,

May I ask what your position is on the historical apparitions of Mary?
May I ask what your position is on the details given in the Holy Fire book?
.

I think some are false and I think some have merit. In any case whether a Catholic believes in Marian apparitions or not is not dogmatic. However, an apparition is not inconsistent with scripture as the Apostles saw the apparitions of Moses and Elijah. At the moment of Jesus' Death many saints who had died were seen around Jerusalem in a mass apparition. What the Catholic Church holds that "official apparitions" are likely in the probability that they most likely occured according to their investigations and meeting the test they provide. However, not all apparitions hold "official" status. And in any case the Catholic Church doesn't require a belief in them though many catholics do.

I haven't read the details given in the Holy Fire book but I will take a look at it to see what you are speaking about. At this point I don't have any view about it.

I just read your op and know of this miracle that you speak of. I believe in the miracle. I don't see that this would be inconsistent with scriptures either. Also note that in protestant bibles which exclude the books of Maccabees we see the miracle which Hanukkah comes from the burning of the oil in the temple for 8 days. Why wouldn't the miracle of nature exhibiting in some form the glory of the resurrection? After all all the cosmos are redeemed by God. Doesn't scripture say if we don't praise God the rocks themselves will shout?

 

[evangelist-7]

I just read your op and know of this miracle that you speak of. I believe in the miracle.
I don't see that this would be inconsistent with scriptures either.
... Doesn't scripture say if we don't praise God the rocks themselves will shout?

Yes, about 20 posts back, I stressed that this miracle simply GLORIFIES JESUS!

Of course, if anyone has a problem with that, they have a big problem!
And their big problem is ... they've been deceived by false doctrine, which says,
"God is NOT allowed to perform any signs, wonders, and miracles!
We have Him in a nice little box, and He's NOT allowed to come out and display His great power!".

Deception happens all the time to many Christians, which is no surprise because:
-- historically, man has always been a spiritual idiot
-- Satan is "the god/ruler of this world/age", the greatest liar/deceiver in da world ever!
I.E. We're morons and Satan's a genius. Hello!
.

 

[Scarlett O.]

BTW, how's Brett doin'?
.

I don't know anyone named Brett.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, about 20 posts back, I stressed that this miracle simply GLORIFIES JESUS!

Of course, if anyone has a problem with that, they have a big problem!
And their big problem is ... they've been deceived by false doctrine, which says,
"God is NOT allowed to perform any signs, wonders, and miracles!
We have Him in a nice little box, and He's NOT allowed to come out and display His great power!".

Deception happens all the time to many Christians, which is no surprise because:
-- historically, man has always been a spiritual idiot
-- Satan is "the god/ruler of this world/age", the greatest liar/deceiver in da world ever!
I.E. We're morons and Satan's a genius. Hello!
.

the bible does NOT state the Gospel must have signs and wonders and Gifts to be the real one, as it IS the power of God unto salvation by itself!

Also, jesus warned that MANY willhave done miracles in his name, done healings, cast out demons, etc BUT they will go to hell, as NEVER had a saving relationship with him!

And jesus and Apsotles warned us against those who can and do deluding signs/miracles/wonders, especially in last days!

Were they all wrong?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

the bible does NOT state the Gospel must have signs and wonders and Gifts to be the real one, as it IS the power of God unto salvation by itself!

Let me ask you a question. What was the purpose of Jesus doing any miracles at all?

 

[Yeshua1]

Let me ask you a question. What was the purpose of Jesus doing any miracles at all?

they were called by John 'signs" to testify that the Kingdom of god was now in their midst, in the very person of the Son of God Himself!

His Apostles did them also, to confirm and prove that he was the messiah, and that His Gospel is the truth!

NOW we have the sure witness of the Word and the Holy Spirit

 

[Thinkingstuff]

they were called by John 'signs" to testify that the Kingdom of god was now in their midst, in the very person of the Son of God Himself!

His Apostles did them also, to confirm and prove that he was the messiah, and that His Gospel is the truth!

NOW we have the sure witness of the Word and the Holy Spirit

Ok. So now with this understanding go back and re-read your post. I think you must re-phrase your statement.

 

[evangelist-7]

I don't know anyone named Brett.

Scarlett O'Hara knew Brett Butler, and I thunk she's was you.
.

 

[Yeshua1]

Ok. So now with this understanding go back and re-read your post. I think you must re-phrase your statement.

No need, that was for back than, during the transistion time between the Covenants, and NOW we have the sure Gospel/Bible, and the Holy sprit confirming to sinners that jesus is the Son of God!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

No need, that was for back than, during the transistion time between the Covenants, and NOW we have the sure Gospel/Bible, and the Holy sprit confirming to sinners that jesus is the Son of God!

So is it your contention that God no longer causes miracles. He no longers shows forth evidence of his soveriegnty? I find that curious. And I would like to see scripture that says God no longer does miracles.

 

[Yeshua1]

So is it your contention that God no longer causes miracles. He no longers shows forth evidence of his soveriegnty? I find that curious. And I would like to see scripture that says God no longer does miracles.

I am NOT saying that!

Do hold that God can still do miracles/healings etc, but that is based upon his sovereign Will in each individual case, and is NOT normitive for this present time!

And that the Gifts to do those are not dispensed out today, as its God doing that directly now when/if He so chooses!

No faith healers/miracle worker, but God can still do that IF He chosses to!

 

[evangelist-7]

“Jerusalem and the spectacularly large Church of the Holy Sepulchre begun by Constantine
became host to a liturgical round which sought to take pilgrims on a journey alongside Jesus Christ
through the events of His last sufferings in Jerusalem, His crucifixion and resurrection.”

(Christianity – The First Three Thousand Years, Diarmaid MacCulloch, Viking/Penguin, 1161 pages)
.