WSM or an 08? Off to the range in the AM to work my way through $75 worth of ammo with the Savage. Taking the 10-22 also. Lot cheaper way to get a few hundred rounds on paper.
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No one on BB has every prayed for an animal?
- Thread starter billwald
- Start date
WSM or an 08? Off to the range in the AM to work my way through $75 worth of ammo with the Savage. Taking the 10-22 also. Lot cheaper way to get a few hundred rounds on paper.
08.
I got a Hornaday lock-n-load system a few years ago. They were running a rebate giving free bullets for buying the press starter set and each die set. So, I am set for reloading for several firearms.
I have the .22 rifle my mom learned to shoot with, and I learned to shoot with. I took my first deer with her .243.
I have an old press for 12 gauge but haven't gotten any supplies together.
I got a Hornaday lock-n-load system a few years ago. They were running a rebate giving free bullets for buying the press starter set and each die set. So, I am set for reloading for several firearms.
I have the .22 rifle my mom learned to shoot with, and I learned to shoot with. I took my first deer with her .243.
I have an old press for 12 gauge but haven't gotten any supplies together.
Michael Wrenn
New Member
What is ridiculous is the position that if something is not mentioned in the NT, it cannot be done today. That was and is the point.
For those who believe that, you had better go and join a Church of Christ, or a Primitive Baptist church, and learn to let your voice be the musical instrument.
You see, those who howl the loudest about something being "unbiblical" are the least consistent in their actions and practices.
Adam and Eve were the first farmers. They were told to tend to the animals but there is no mention of a prayer service. Noah had a boatload of critters. Did he pray for them? Maybe but the Good Book doesn't mention it. Moses spent a long, long time with just him and his sheep. Burning bush but no service for the herd. Jacob and Laban's flock....
Here's the rub Michael. The church has no greater mission than to go and preach the Gospel. I'll throw your little critter service into the same heap as rummage sales, suppers, bake sales, Hanging of the Greens and any other activity that distracts us from the core mission of the church.
Michael Wrenn
New Member
Romans 8:18-23 includes the whole creation in the promise of redemption; therefore, praying for animals in whatever setting is most appropriate. Your lumping this into the other list you gave is very inappropriate, to put it mildly.
Very inappropriate? Not given to hyperbole are you? Romans 8 has the whole of creation groaning under the weight of the pollution of sin and corruption awaiting our redemption. I don't see any mention of Mrs. Fluglehorn's Bichon Frise. So to borrow your words...Your lumping this into the other list you gave is very inappropriate, to put it mildly...
Remember the conversation between Jacob and Esau? This is probably the closest you will come to finding ant mention of praying for the creatures:
Genesis 33:13-14 NAS77
13 But he said to him, "My lord knows that the children are frail and that the flocks and herds which are nursing are a care to me. And if they are driven hard one day, all the flocks will die.
14 "Please let my lord pass on before his servant; and I will proceed at my leisure, according to the pace of the cattle that are before me and according to the pace of the children, until I come to my lord at Seir."
...except it is not a prayer. It is Jacob asking Esau for relief because of the children and the nursing stock under his responsibility. His concern is for the children first and then the livestock.
That said, there is not a single passage of Scripture that tells us it is good to take a substantial portion of the time set aside for the worship of the church and the proclamation of the Gospel to bow to the RC and attempt to legitimize the Feast of St. Francis of Assisi.
Naturalistic pantheism anyone?
Have you ever heard of the "begging the question fallacy"? You just nailed it.
Michael Wrenn
New Member
I would say that Romans 8:18-23 is a proclamation of the Gospel, and thus it is good, appropriate, and relevant to pray for and bless the creation.
Your equating this with "bowing to the RC" is simply foolish and false.
Michael Wrenn
New Member
Your mockery only highlights your foolishness.
Michael Wrenn
New Member
Again, a false and foolish assertion.
Praying for and blessing the creation is scriptural. Redemption of the creation is scriptural.
Michael Wrenn
New Member
I've heard of lots of things, Rev. What amazes me is your ability to be consistently wrong.
Why? What is the difference between an animal and a tree?
There is nothing wrong with praying for God's blessings upon anything God has given us and that blesses us.
Farmers regularly pray for blessings upon their crops and ranchers upon their livestock.
That is why we have prayer requests at prayer meetings.
However, regulating and separating an entire regular church service for blessing animals seems to be going to the extreme when there are so many other things weekly that call for greater concern and need. Lost loved ones, poor and needy, sick, the distressed, world unrest, wars, economic and political state of our country. To further designate a repeating regular service just for animals is even more extreme if not leaning to occultic.
If that is what some of your churches want to do, fine, but our church has much more pressing things to pray for and we will never restrict a service to merely plants and animals! Of course if someone has a specific request concerning their plants (harvest) and animals then they are free to offer it up to the congregation alone with other pressing needs.
No. Destruction of the creation is scriptural.
2 Peter 3:10 NAS77
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
Perhaps you don't know what the word redemption means. Just calling things false and foolish does not make it so.
The Presbyterians have been arguing this sort of thing for 400 years see
http://www.newble.co.uk/hall/mcmahon.html
CM McMAHON
The Regulatory Principle in Worship
The Regulatory Principle was given its classical and definitive statement in the reformed Confessions formulated in the 17th century. It is stated in identical language in Chapter 21 paragraph 1 in both the Westminster confession and Chapter 22 paragraph 1 in the 1689 London Baptist confession. The following is taken from the 1689 Baptist Confession:
"The light of Nature shews that there is a God, who hath Lordship, and Sovereignty over all; is just, good, and doth good unto all; and is therefore to be feared, loved, praised, called upon, trusted in, and served, with all the Heart, and all the Soul, (a) and with all the Might. But the acceptable way of Worshipping the true God, is (b) instituted by himself; and so limited by his own revealed will, that he may not be Worshipped according to the imaginations, and devices of Men, or the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representations, or (c) any other way, not prescribed in the Holy Scriptures."
Simply the Regulative Principle States this: True worship is only commanded by God; false worship is anything not commanded. This was the Puritan's view of worship. As Samuel Waldron has said, "It seems that one of the major intellectual stumbling blocks which hinders men from embracing the Regulative Principle is that it involves the idea that the church and its worship is ordered in a regulated way different from the rest of life. In the rest of life God gives men the great precepts and general principles of his word and within the bounds of these directions allows them to order their lives as seems best to them. He does not give them minute directions as to how they shall build their houses or pursue their secular vocations. The Regulative principle, on the other hand, involves a limitation on human initiative in freedom not characteristic of the rest of life. It clearly assumes that there is a distinction between the way the church and its worship is to be ordered and the way the rest of human society and conduct is to be ordered. Thus, the Regulative Principle is liable to strike many as oppressive, peculiar, and, therefore, suspiciously out of accord with God's dealings with mankind and the rest of life." True enough.
It should be seen as appropriate at that house of God be ordered by God's rules. It should be seen as appropriate that God's people are to be ordered by God's rules. It should be seen as appropriate that worship, that which shows reverence, piety, love, desire, and joy in God, be structured and ordered according to God's word and His biblical principles lying therein. Worship for the Christian should be an expression of God's heart back to God. We ought to reflect back to God how wonderful and most blessed He is. It is impossible to worship God by human invention. It is impossible to worship God by human ingenuity. It is impossible to worship God in an atmosphere that has not been structured and ordered by God and His word. The Regulatory Principle which is found in the Bible and expressed clearly in its climactic expression by the Puritans should not be placed by the way side because we and our contemporary culture are more fascinated and captivated by being entertained rather than by worshipping God.
The Presbyterian Puritans, in assembling the Westminster standards, and the Reformed Baptist Puritans, in assembling the 1689 London Baptist Confession, were both aiming at the same thing: acceptable worship to Christ. Let us first look at the 1689
confession and then we will look at the Biblical arguments which support this statement of worship . . . .
http://www.newble.co.uk/hall/mcmahon.html
CM McMAHON
The Regulatory Principle in Worship
The Regulatory Principle was given its classical and definitive statement in the reformed Confessions formulated in the 17th century. It is stated in identical language in Chapter 21 paragraph 1 in both the Westminster confession and Chapter 22 paragraph 1 in the 1689 London Baptist confession. The following is taken from the 1689 Baptist Confession:
"The light of Nature shews that there is a God, who hath Lordship, and Sovereignty over all; is just, good, and doth good unto all; and is therefore to be feared, loved, praised, called upon, trusted in, and served, with all the Heart, and all the Soul, (a) and with all the Might. But the acceptable way of Worshipping the true God, is (b) instituted by himself; and so limited by his own revealed will, that he may not be Worshipped according to the imaginations, and devices of Men, or the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representations, or (c) any other way, not prescribed in the Holy Scriptures."
Simply the Regulative Principle States this: True worship is only commanded by God; false worship is anything not commanded. This was the Puritan's view of worship. As Samuel Waldron has said, "It seems that one of the major intellectual stumbling blocks which hinders men from embracing the Regulative Principle is that it involves the idea that the church and its worship is ordered in a regulated way different from the rest of life. In the rest of life God gives men the great precepts and general principles of his word and within the bounds of these directions allows them to order their lives as seems best to them. He does not give them minute directions as to how they shall build their houses or pursue their secular vocations. The Regulative principle, on the other hand, involves a limitation on human initiative in freedom not characteristic of the rest of life. It clearly assumes that there is a distinction between the way the church and its worship is to be ordered and the way the rest of human society and conduct is to be ordered. Thus, the Regulative Principle is liable to strike many as oppressive, peculiar, and, therefore, suspiciously out of accord with God's dealings with mankind and the rest of life." True enough.
It should be seen as appropriate at that house of God be ordered by God's rules. It should be seen as appropriate that God's people are to be ordered by God's rules. It should be seen as appropriate that worship, that which shows reverence, piety, love, desire, and joy in God, be structured and ordered according to God's word and His biblical principles lying therein. Worship for the Christian should be an expression of God's heart back to God. We ought to reflect back to God how wonderful and most blessed He is. It is impossible to worship God by human invention. It is impossible to worship God by human ingenuity. It is impossible to worship God in an atmosphere that has not been structured and ordered by God and His word. The Regulatory Principle which is found in the Bible and expressed clearly in its climactic expression by the Puritans should not be placed by the way side because we and our contemporary culture are more fascinated and captivated by being entertained rather than by worshipping God.
The Presbyterian Puritans, in assembling the Westminster standards, and the Reformed Baptist Puritans, in assembling the 1689 London Baptist Confession, were both aiming at the same thing: acceptable worship to Christ. Let us first look at the 1689
confession and then we will look at the Biblical arguments which support this statement of worship . . . .
Thank you billwald.