No one on BB has every prayed for an animal?

[Jerome]

This Southern Baptist pastor does:

http://herald-review.com/lifestyles...cle_e7ba52bc-9bac-11e1-8f7e-0019bb2963f4.html

"next weekend with the annual Blessing of the Horses service"

"Rev. Tracey Smith, pastor of First Baptist Church in Mount Zion, will do the blessing."

 

[Alive in Christ]

Annsni...

I've also prayed for my car when it was acting up as I was driving home but I'm certainly not going to have an official service at my church to pray for cars

Your car is not a living, breathing creature, created by God Himself, with a mind, emotions,likes and dis-likes feelings, etc etc.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

No. Destruction of the creation is scriptural.

2 Peter 3:10 NAS77
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

Perhaps you don't know what the word redemption means. Just calling things false and foolish does not make it so.

Perhaps you are not familiar with Romans 8:18-23. I suggest that studying it and its meaning might help you in your calling.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

This Southern Baptist pastor does:

http://herald-review.com/lifestyles...cle_e7ba52bc-9bac-11e1-8f7e-0019bb2963f4.html

"next weekend with the annual Blessing of the Horses service"

"Rev. Tracey Smith, pastor of First Baptist Church in Mount Zion, will do the blessing."

Thanks for the link.

It made me think of a comment I would like to post, but if I did I would probably be banned.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

The legalism exhibited by some in this thread is simply astounding. And there are other fitting adjectives, but I won't list them.

 

[Revmitchell]

The use of the term legalism usually means "whatever I do not like."

 

[padredurand]

Perhaps you are not familiar with Romans 8:18-23. I suggest that studying it and its meaning might help you in your calling.

Perhaps you could enlighten us ignorant ones.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Perhaps you could enlighten us ignorant ones.

I didn't mean that as an insult, but I think it came off as one.

I just meant that if the creation is the beneficiary of Christ's redeeming work, just as we are, then it certainly seems a good thing to pray for the creation and ask God's blessings on it, including animals. And, to me, I cannot see why it would matter if such prayer and blessing took place inside a church building or outside of same. It seems to me that the objection to this taking place inside a church building is very legalistic.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

The use of the term legalism usually means "whatever I do not like."

Really? I never read that definition anywhere.

 

[DHK]

I didn't mean that as an insult, but I think it came off as one.

I just meant that if the creation is the beneficiary of Christ's redeeming work,

How is it now the beneficiary of Christ's redeeming work?
It isn't. It is still under the Curse just as it was when Adam fell. It grows thorns and thistles. Man must work by the sweat of his brow. The ground is cursed and that curse has not been lifted.

just as we are,

The passage says that we wait for the redemption of our body; it is not even speaking of spiritual redemption. The resurrection has not yet taken place.

then it certainly seems a good thing to pray for the creation and ask God's blessings on it, including animals. And, to me, I cannot see why it would matter if such prayer and blessing took place inside a church building or outside of same.

Because that is not what the church does here. If you want to know what the church is for then read the Bible and take your examples from there:

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
--There is a good place to start.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
--There is another example of another service.
The services of the early church centered around the preaching of the word; not the blessing of the animals.

It seems to me that the objection to this taking place inside a church building is very legalistic.

What Revmitchell said is true. He defined it according to the way you use it. It was a bit of sarcasm that you didn't recognize.

Legalism has but one legitimate definition. The Judaizers were examples of legalists. They wanted to add keeping the law and circumcision as requirements to salvation. That is what legalism is. Adding anything (like speaking in tongues or baptism) as a requirement for salvation is legalism. Salvation is by grace through faith and that not of ourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works. One cannot add anything to the work of Christ or it becomes legalism. Folks have redefined legalism to make it mean something it doesn't.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

How is it now the beneficiary of Christ's redeeming work?
It isn't.


And to claim that, you also have to claim that humans are not now the beneficiary of Christ's redeeming work -- a totally untenable and ridiculous proposition.



It is still under the Curse just as it was when Adam fell. It grows thorns and thistles. Man must work by the sweat of his brow. The ground is cursed and that curse has not been lifted.
The passage says that we wait for the redemption of our body; it is not even speaking of spiritual redemption. The resurrection has not yet taken place.
Because that is not what the church does here. If you want to know what the church is for then read the Bible and take your examples from there:

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
--There is a good place to start.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
--There is another example of another service.
The services of the early church centered around the preaching of the word; not the blessing of the animals.

What Revmitchell said is true. He defined it according to the way you use it. It was a bit of sarcasm that you didn't recognize.


Oh, I recognized the sarcasm, and I replied with same.


Legalism has but one legitimate definition. The Judaizers were examples of legalists. They wanted to add keeping the law and circumcision as requirements to salvation. That is what legalism is. Adding anything (like speaking in tongues or baptism) as a requirement for salvation is legalism. Salvation is by grace through faith and that not of ourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works. One cannot add anything to the work of Christ or it becomes legalism. Folks have redefined legalism to make it mean something it doesn't.

See first answers in red, above.

I know what the mission of the church is. Praying for the creation fits right in with that.

I also know what legalism is, and it is perfectly exhibited in this thread.

 

[DHK]

How is it now the beneficiary of Christ's redeeming work?
It isn't.

And to claim that, you also have to claim that humans are not now the beneficiary of Christ's redeeming work -- a totally untenable and ridiculous proposition.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

You are right. Humans, that is their bodies, are not now the beneficiaries of the redeeming work of Christ. If you look at the context, the verse I quoted, it says that we wait for the redemption of our bodies. They WILL BE beneficiaries of His redeeming work at the resurrection, at least those who have believed in him will be. But they aren't right now. This is talking about a future event; it has nothing to do with the present.

 

[billwald]

It should be obvious that our physical bodies function the same as OT physical bodies did and my post baptismal body functions the same as my pre-baptismal body did - allowing for age and body fat.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

You are right. Humans, that is their bodies, are not now the beneficiaries of the redeeming work of Christ. If you look at the context, the verse I quoted, it says that we wait for the redemption of our bodies. They WILL BE beneficiaries of His redeeming work at the resurrection, at least those who have believed in him will be. But they aren't right now. This is talking about a future event; it has nothing to do with the present.

On the contrary, the redemption obtained for us by Jesus was an objective fact accomplished at the time of His life, death, and resurrection; it is a fact occurring in the present, and it is an ongoing fact that will be ultimately fulfilled in the future. So, the whole creation -- which includes humans and animals -- was redeemed, is redeemed, and is being redeemed.

Your view is what happens when a part of Christ's work is fragmented and isolated from His entire work. That is what legalistic views of the atonement do, such as penal substitution. Christus Victor has no such shortcoming, as it views all of Christ's work in a wholistic manner. Therefore, it is right to say that because of Christ's life, death, and resurrection, we were redeemed, are redeemed, and are being redeemed.

 

[DHK]

On the contrary, the redemption obtained for us by Jesus was an objective fact accomplished at the time of His life, death, and resurrection; it is a fact occurring in the present, and it is an ongoing fact that will be ultimately fulfilled in the future. So, the whole creation -- which includes humans and animals -- was redeemed, is redeemed, and is being redeemed.

Your view is what happens when a part of Christ's work is fragmented and isolated from His entire work. That is what legalistic views of the atonement do, such as penal substitution. Christus Victor has no such shortcoming, as it views all of Christ's work in a wholistic manner. Therefore, it is right to say that because of Christ's life, death, and resurrection, we were redeemed, are redeemed, and are being redeemed.

If your view was correct there would be no such thing as the Second Law of Thermodynamics where all things tend to a state of decay.

Things would be getting better and better, not worse and worse, as we all can observe.

All things tend to decay: your body, cars as soon as they are taken off the lot, computers don't last forever. The whole creation travails and groans under this curse. Things are not getting better; they are getting worse. We are still under the curse.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Never having my livelihood dependent on livestock nor having any emotional attachment for a pet, I have never prayed for an animal.

That being said. If I had a sick cow, pig, horse or any other live stock you betcha I'd pray for their health. If I owned a dog for a long period of years who got sick on me, I'd pray for them.

 

[Revmitchell]

Never having my livelihood dependent on livestock nor having any emotional attachment for a pet, I have never prayed for an animal.

That being said. If I had a sick cow, pig, horse or any other live stock you betcha I'd pray for their health. If I owned a dog for a long period of years who got sick on me, I'd pray for them.

That is different than dedicating a church service to pets.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Then I've never attended or been a member of a church were Francis d'Asis was considered a saint of some special order.

That is different than dedicating a church service to pets.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

If your view was correct there would be no such thing as the Second Law of Thermodynamics where all things tend to a state of decay.

Things would be getting better and better, not worse and worse, as we all can observe.

All things tend to decay: your body, cars as soon as they are taken off the lot, computers don't last forever. The whole creation travails and groans under this curse. Things are not getting better; they are getting worse. We are still under the curse.

Yes, we are definitely still under the curse, but, at the same time, we are also redeemed. Maybe if you would read a certain passage by Paul that I am thinking of, you would see what I'm talking about.

To say that our redemption is not already an accomplished objective fact is in some sense to deny Christ's work. Our redemption has three aspects: past, present, and future.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

That is different than dedicating a church service to pets.

Yeah? How? It is not different, except in the minds of legalists who imagine that there is a difference in praying for animals in the open air and praying for them inside a building.

Besides, the pets are just one part of the service; the service is dedicated to honoring and recognizing the goodness of God's creation, asking God's blessings on it, and thanking God that he has included the redemption of His creation in His plan of salvation, humans being a part of that creation and the focal point in that plan of salvation.

It is our responsibility, as it was Adam's in the Garden, to nurture and care for God's creation; part of that is praying for and asking God's blessings on His whole creation -- man, beast, and all of nature.

That is not paganistic; that is Biblical. It is also part of the ancient Celtic church heritage.