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Opinions on Dispensationalism

Bob Hope

Member
hello again bob:

For what it is worth (and not dispensation); Larkin has an interesting Chapter 32 . Dispensational Teaching of the Great Pyramid. http://preservedwords.com/disptruth/contents.htm ....
Larkin is a better read than Revelation and has neat graphics. ..... but I can't say that I have adopted any of it nor have I understood or adopted Revelation since John was semi psychotic on Patmos Island when he wrote it.


http://preservedwords.com/disptruth/contents.htm
.........
32-pyramid2.gif


zara ...:thumbs:

Interesting that Larkin puts that in his book, especially chapter number 32. The great pyramid is an amazing structure I would suggest a study on it for all Christians. It was likely built under the instruction of the fallen angels and built by the Nephilim. Even the pyramid in South America was not built by the Mayans as many assume but by the Nephilim. It represents the zenith of their rule on earth. Its shape can be found on the streets in Washington D.C. and it shape is found on countless buildings in the US and around the world. Check out the new freedom tower.
 

Bob Hope

Member
I was taught dispensationalism, and for years, it was the only view I ever heard. We all loved Hal Lindsey and his books; J. Dwight Pentecost and his books, and all those prophecy conferences. I was tickled to death to know that I was going to avoid the Great Tribulation.

Then along came a pastor who messed me up good. One night he preached on the end times, from a post-tribulational viewpoint. A bunch of us headed for him after the service. He held up his hand and stopped us.

"Okay guys, we're not going to debate this tonight. Here's your assignment. You find one clear, unmistakeable, non-subject-to-any-other-interpretation verse which specifically says the rapture occurs before the Tribulation. Bring it back with you and we'll discuss the ones you find."

Oops.

We couldn't find one. Not one.


What do you think about hidding in the wilderness for 3 1/2 years?
 

Jope

Active Member
Site Supporter
Jope

No point to arguing unless we agree to the same meaning of the wrods.

You define "dispensationalism" and you show me how Paul accepted your definition.

:) That's what I was getting at.

Darby never invented dispensationalism.

Paul was a dispensationalist (Eph. 3:2).

"Dispensation" literally means:

"Dispensation
DISPENSATION, n. [L. See Dispense.]

1. Distribution; the act of dealing out to different persons or places; as the dispensation of water indifferently to all parts of the earth.

2. The dealing of God to his creatures; the distribution of good and evil, natural or moral, in the divine government.

Neither are Gods methods or intentions different in his dispensations to each private man.

3. The granting of a license, or the license itself, to do what is forbidden by laws or canons, or to omit something which is commanded; that is, the dispensing with a law or canon, or the exemption of a particular person from the obligation to comply with its injunctions. The pope has power to dispense with the canons of the church, but has no right to grant dispensations to the injury of a third person."

Webster's 1828 Dictionary​

And so, a dispensation is a (divine) time of dealing or "administration" with mankind. This doctrine (of different times of divine dealing with mankind) is found in the scriptures.

Now, though it is not explicitly stated in scriptures, a failure on the part of man in dispensations can be seen.

A Dispensation, as Darby would define it,

"It is not my intention to enter into any great detail, but to shew simply how, in every instance, there was total and immediate failure as regarded man, however the patience of God might tolerate and carry on by grace the dispensation in which man has thus failed in the outset; and further, that there is no instance of the restoration of a dispensation afforded us, though there might be partial revivals of it through faith."

- Underline emphasis mine.
John Darby, Apostasy of the successive dispensations, para. 4​

Darby never invented the "failure" concept. This concept goes way back to before Clement of Alexandria, though this doctrine can be found in his book "Book 5, Elucidations, III" (150-215AD), where it speaks of his instructor Dr. Jarvis as mentioning the "failure" concept in a dispensation.

This doctrine (of man failing throughout dispensations) is found in the scriptures.

Personally, with Darby and Clement's instructor, Dr. Jarvis' "failure" definition, there are two dispensations that I question (to be scripturally consistent with their theory). One being the dispensation of promise, and how man failed with this dispensation. I also question our present dispensation, and how man is to fail in this dispensation.
 
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Jope

Active Member
Site Supporter
Where Darby's doctrine becomes highly controversial is where the pre-trib rapture and premillennial doctrines come in, because these are two dispensations that are in conflict with present-day amillennialists and post-tribulational premillennialists.

"Too traditional to admit that biblical authors might have contradicted each other, and too rationalist to admit that the prophetic maze defied penetration, Darby attempted a resolution of his exegetical dilemma by distinguishing between Scripture intended for the Church and Scripture intended for Israel...

The task of the expositor of the Bible was, in a phrase that became the hallmark of dispensationalism, 'rightly dividing the word of truth'."

From "The Roots of Fundamentalism:
British and American Millenarianism 1800-1930" (1970)
by Ernest R. Sandeen, University of Chicago Press
ISBN 0-22-73467-6, p. 65-67​

- In this quote here I do acknowledge that it says "dispensationalism" in the sense which I am disproving.
Nevertheless, my point remains.
 
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Jope

Active Member
Site Supporter
...Even covenantalists will agree that there are dispensations.

Check the Westminster Confession (Chapters 5 and 8).
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
There are many different forms of dispensationalism. There are those that some define as "hyper" dispensationalists who believe that God had a different way of salvation for each dispensation characterized by a covenant (Edenic covenant, Noahic covenant, Abrahamic covenant, Mosaic Covenant, and that the church covenant began in Acts 10 and continues to a pre-trib rapture and then God delivers national Israel into a millennial covenant.

There are those that are Pre-millennial who believe that God will save Israel as a nation after a pre-trib rapture and will establish an millennial kingdom upon a transformed earth and yet deny there was or shall be any other gospel or way of salvation than one gospel and that all the covenants of God manifested some aspect of the "everlasting covenant" of grace.

There are those who are Post-trib rapturists but believe in the literal restoration of Israel as a nation and a literal millennial kingdom.


Think that there as 'classical" Dispy, in the traditions of Scofield...

Think there are Mainstream ones, such as Charles Ryrie..

Think there are progressive ones such as Dr Bock...

Also think that the fact that it has evolved and change somewhat is a good thing, as in my opinion, a more progressive viewpoint does get us away from what was the hardest issue for non Dispy to see...

That concept of there actually being 2 Copvenants God still used to save jews/gentiles on today, that some saw isreal as saved by being still under the law!

Also would say that darby did NOT invent the doctrines, its just that he saw them once again, rediscovered fresh and anew, much as calvin/Luthor did the real Gospel of Grace!
 

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
Interesting that Larkin puts that in his book, especially chapter number 32. The great pyramid is an amazing structure I would suggest a study on it for all Christians. It was likely built under the instruction of the fallen angels and built by the Nephilim. Even the pyramid in South America was not built by the Mayans as many assume but by the Nephilim. It represents the zenith of their rule on earth. Its shape can be found on the streets in Washington D.C. and it shape is found on countless buildings in the US and around the world. Check out the new freedom tower.

FYI its also interesting to note that Charles Taize Russell founder of JW wrote a book about the structure of the Pyramid to support his dispensationalist point of view as well just before he died.
 
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