Who are the gentiles?

[The Biblicist]

Was Paul a gentile? Wasn't Paul apart of the Church?

Church does not equal salvation! If that were case then no one could be saved prior to the building of the church.

Paul was saved as a Jew and then added to the church as were the 3000 on the day of Pentecost. You cannot "add" to something that does not already exist. The church existed prior to Pentecost and was built out of the materials provided by John the Baptist (Lk. 1:17; Jn. 1:29-35) and was assembling with ordinances prior to Acts 2 as well as with officers (Mk. 3:12; Lk. 6:12; Acts 1:21-22; 1 Cor. 12:18).

The church is the public institution of worship that can be found throughout the New Testament in all geographical locations where people were first saved and then baptized and assembled into that church institution.

The church and Israel are not one and the same in any way shape or form.

You could not find the term "church" in the greatest treatise on the promises and future salvation of Israel because they are not one and the same.

 

[Bob Hope]

Church does not equal salvation! If that were case then no one could be saved prior to the building of the church.

Paul was saved as a Jew and then added to the church as were the 3000 on the day of Pentecost. You cannot "add" to something that does not already exist. The church existed prior to Pentecost and was built out of the materials provided by John the Baptist (Lk. 1:17; Jn. 1:29-35) and was assembling with ordinances prior to Acts 2 as well as with officers (Mk. 3:12; Lk. 6:12; Acts 1:21-22; 1 Cor. 12:18).

The church is the public institution of worship that can be found throughout the New Testament in all geographical locations where people were first saved and then baptized and assembled into that church institution.

The church and Israel are not one and the same in any way shape or form.

You could not find the term "church" in the greatest treatise on the promises and future salvation of Israel because they are not one and the same.

Dude, the church are the elect. There has always been the elect. Paul was an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin. He became a joint heir when he accepted Christ. The word church is really meaningless here.

 

[The Biblicist]

Dude, the church are the elect. There has always been the elect. Paul was an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin. He became a joint heir when he accepted Christ. The word church is really meaningless here.

"dude" salvation by election did not begin or change with the origin of the church. The "church" did not exist prior to the earthly ministry of Christ (Mt. 16:18). The apostles were "FIRST" added to that church not the Old Testament prophets or Old Testament saints and yet they were elected to salvation through faith in the gospel as much as those saints in the New Testament records (2 Thes. 2:13-14). The "foundation" of the church is New Testament in character not Old Testament (Eph. 2:20).

Election includes all saints in all ages not just members of the New Testament church. Israel existed before the church existed and Israel is not the church.

 

[Bob Hope]

"dude" salvation by election did not begin or change with the origin of the church. The "church" did not exist prior to the earthly ministry of Christ (Mt. 16:18). The apostles were "FIRST" added to that church not the Old Testament prophets or Old Testament saints and yet they were elected to salvation through faith in the gospel as much as those saints in the New Testament records (2 Thes. 2:13-14). The "foundation" of the church is New Testament in character not Old Testament (Eph. 2:20).

Election includes all saints in all ages not just members of the New Testament church. Israel existed before the church existed and Israel is not the church.

There have always been elect, time is meaningless. All OT saints are added to the bride/church/elect/Israel, (they are all the same group of people.) according to I Peter 4:6

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

[The Biblicist]

There have always been elect, time is meaningless. All OT saints are added to the bride/church/elect/Israel, (they are all the same group of people.) according to I Peter 4:6

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

This text says absolutely NOTHING in regard to your point - NOTHING! If this is how you interpret scripture, then, you have problems indeed.

Where do you begin building a structure? The "foundation" of the church is completely New Testament in ORIGIN - Eph. 2:20

The first added to the church are apostles - 1 Cor. 12:28

Your doctrine is based upon pure imagination and abuse of scripture not sound exegesis.

 

[Bob Hope]

This text says absolutely NOTHING in regard to your point - NOTHING! If this is how you interpret scripture, then, you have problems indeed.

Where do you begin building a structure? The "foundation" of the church is completely New Testament in ORIGIN - Eph. 2:20

The first added to the church are apostles - 1 Cor. 12:28

Your doctrine is based upon pure imagination and abuse of scripture not sound exegesis.

Well don't give up. Lots of people just starting out their christian walk struggle with these simple doctrines. Hang in there buddy.

 

[Jope]

Bob, when a Jew believes on Christ, he forsakes his Jewish heritage (Gal. 3:28).

 

[Bob Hope]

Bob, when a Jew believes on Christ, he forsakes his Jewish heritage (Gal. 3:28).

When a jew believes in Christ he is added to the church.

 

[The Biblicist]

When a jew believes in Christ he is added to the church.

Not necessarily! The Jews on Pentecost beleived in Christ but were "added" to the church AFTER they believed and were water baptized - Acts 2:41

 

[Bob Hope]

Not necessarily! The Jews on Pentecost beleived in Christ but were "added" to the church AFTER they believed and were water baptized - Acts 2:41

Right, they went from darkness to light. They went from unbelief to belief. They went from not being part of bride to being part of the bride. This is what we call getting saved. What happens is a person accepts Christ and when they do they begin a walk of faith. Now these law followers are apart of the second covenant.

 

[The Biblicist]

Right, they went from darkness to light. They went from unbelief to belief.

So far so good!

They went from not being part of bride to being part of the bride.

Wrong! In the new heaven and earth there are those OUTSIDE the Bride and yet are saved (Rev. 19:8-9; 21:24-25). Not all the elect are in the Bride of Christ. The church had no existence prior to its foundation and the ministry of Christ. You are confused but worse yet you are twisting scriptures to teach error.

 

[Bob Hope]

So far so good!






Wrong! In the new heaven and earth there are those OUTSIDE the Bride and yet are saved (Rev. 19:8-9; 21:24-25). Not all the elect are in the Bride of Christ. The church had no existence prior to its foundation and the ministry of Christ. You are confused but worse yet you are twisting scriptures to teach error.

No man is saved outside of Christ. This is really basic stuff here. As I shared earlier, I Peter 4:6 states that the gospel was preached unto the DEAD. All men are brought to salvation through Christ.

 

[The Biblicist]

No man is saved outside of Christ. This is really basic stuff here. As I shared earlier, I Peter 4:6 states that the gospel was preached unto the DEAD. All men are brought to salvation through Christ.

Apparently you have not done a very good study of what it means to be "in Christ" and how that phrase is differently applied in Scripture.

1. The saved where CHOSEN "in him" before the world began - in Him by Purpose - Eph. 1:4;

2. The elect were "created in Christ Jesus" by regeneration - Eph. 2:1,6,10 - In Him by creation.

3. The elect were "in Christ" by representation as the Second Adam - Rom. 5:12-19. - in him by representation

4. The elect are "in Christ" by faith or justification when we trust in the gospel or good news that he stood in our place for our sins and we stand in Him for righteousness - In him by POSITIONAL justification.

5. The elect were "in Christ" by progressive sanctification so that we "walk IN HIM". Experientially in Christ

6. Some of the elect are SYMBOLICLLY/FIGURATIVELY "in Christ" by water baptism - Rom. 6:4-5; Gal. 3:27 as they "put on" Christ in baptism. Symbolically in Christ

7. Some of the elect are METPHORICALLY "in Christ" through MEMBERSHIP in His church body - 1 Cor. 12:27 - such as the church at Corinth. Metaphorically in Christ.