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The book of Enoch, scripture or not?
- Thread starter Bob Hope
- Start date
I have read Enoch! Jude refers to the prophesies of Enoch in vs. 14. Interesting read!
Yes, I have read the book of Enoch or at least the book of Enoch we have today. Just because Jude quoted a passage from it does not prove it was given by inspiration as scripture anymore than Paul quoting a passage from Greek philosophers in Acts 17 and Titus chapter one means they are given by inspiration. Yes, I realize you did not make any statement to indicate you believed they were scripture.
Bob Hope
Member
Sure it does. I should add that only the Holy Spirit can tell you if it is truth.
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Bob Hope
Member
Sure it does WHAT? It is certainly not scripture as it contains heretical teaching as well as some truth.
What you mean is your FEELINGS! Sorry, the Holy Spirit never leads contrary to God's Word. Mormon's say the same thing - a "burning in your bosom"! Mormons claim the same for their Book of Mormon and the book of Mormon contains long portions taken directly out of the book of Isaiah and so it does have some truth. The Holy Spirit would confirm all the quotations from Isaiah as truth in the book of Mormon.
Bob Hope
Member
What about Phaneul? The angel that is "set over" the repentance of those to have eternal life? The Bible doesn't say that an angel is set over our eternal life or is our mediator. The Bible says that's Jesus' job.
What about Penemue (sp?)? The angel that supposedly brought sin to the world with his "ink and paper". He supposedly taught mankind all of his widsom in his writings and ergo - in that wisdom mankind understood what sin was and chose sin because of Penemue? And that death only came to man because of man's understanding - in wisdom - of what sin/death was. The Bible tells a completely different story about the origins of sin.
I haven't read the book of Enoch myself, but have read what commentatros have to say about it.
Bob Hope
Member
Then how do you know, in your infinite wisdom, whether the bible is true? It is obvious that you have blind faith that in 393 A.D. a group of men assembled only those books that contained God words. It is your feelings that have drawn you to conclude this.
Questioning whether the Bible is true is just plain heresy. Its the same thing Satan did in the garden "hath God said?"
Bob Hope
Member
It seems that the bible gives a rough outline of what happened. Enoch gives specific details.
2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Plural, there were more than one that sinned, this squares well with Enoch. Each angel that fell had a part in corrupting men.
No, the bible flatly contradicts those "details" in clear explicit words.
However, that is beside the point. The point is that you will embrace such things because you are given over to them and no amount of evidence to the contrary will change your "seared" mind (1 Tim. 4:1-3).
Bob Hope
Member
LOL, good one "pastor".
No, just a matter of much experience dealing with those who embrace and then teach falsehoods. No teachable spirit. They take obvious contradictions to their interpretations and then twist and contort the scriptures to make fit. That is evidence of a "seared" conscience and no amount of pursuasion can change such a person. God has to change them and we are commanded to simply rebuke and reject them in the mean time (Tit. 3:10) after the second admonition.
BTW I have retired from Pastoring and so I no longer fill that office.
Bob Hope
Member
No teachable spirit??!! You need to take a good look at yourself pal. [Personal attack and offensive language edited]
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Bob Hope
Member
Case closed!
Bob Hope
Member
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
The Case of the Book of Enoch, LXX translation, and the Dead Sea scrolls reveal that at the time of the Apostles what was considered scripture (canon in regards to the old testament) was a bit more fluid than people generally believe. Enoch falls into a particular catagory of liturature called Apocalyptic which was a particularily favorable form at the time. The Book of Revelation also follows this literary type in its presentation. The fact that the early Christians read and familiarized themselves with it and Copts still hold it as canon and certain dispensationalist (particularily the gap theorist sources with regard to who the nephalim were) have formulated certain ideas originating from this document is significant. Its actually a facinating study into the thinking of the early church.