Zig Ziglar

[evangelist6589]

He died recently. True believer or false convert? Read his book See you at the Top and its all self-help. Some of his disciples have said the following.

May you have a prosperous New Year. Do you believe and expect those things for yourself? We know that what we tell ourselves tends to become our reality. So if you say, I am happy, I am prosperous, I am successful, we tend to attract those characteristics into our lives. And certainly the opposite is also true.

While there is some truth to this, at its core its full blooded self-help. Sadly Charles Stanley let him give an endorsement for one of his books. However if you read that book and compare it to Zig's teachings there is much difference between them. Dr. Stanley in his Success book, uses much scripture, speaks about knowing God and doing his will to be the most successful thing one can do. Charles does not promise vocational success or more money in the book, however God may bless one with it.

 

[Mexdeaf]

"Self-help" is not always bad. It's called "putting feet to your prayers". Too many Christians want someone else to do the work.

As for the OP- certain people that I respect that knew Mr. Ziglar personally say that he had a glowing testimony for Christ. I'll take their word for it.

 

[evangelist6589]

"Self-help" is not always bad. It's called "putting feet to your prayers". Too many Christians want someone else to do the work.

As for the OP- certain people that I respect that knew Mr. Ziglar personally say that he had a glowing testimony for Christ. I'll take their word for it.

This may be a quietism vs. pietism argument. One argument says it wall the Holy Spirit, and the other is the opposite. We need balance. We need to try and improve our situation, but also rely on God to help us. Stanley's book Success Gods Way balances things very well.

 

[Mexdeaf]

I try to be balanced and not judge people by one book they wrote, also. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Scarlett O.]

I really liked Zig Ziglar. I heard him speak once about 30 years ago and thought he was very uplifting and motivating. In fact, there are things that he said that day that I have never fogotten.

All counsel given to people in the form of speakers, books, etc. doesn't have to be straight from the Word to be profitable. It should line up with and agree with God's Word, but solid counsel can be very secular and still be quite useful.

There are some very valid secular helps that line up with what the Bible teaches. And obviously there is a lot that doesn't.

The point is - all quality counsel should be in harmony with what God teaches beit from His Word, from one's own experience, from the wisdom of those who have gone before us, or from a competent secular source.

I see nothing wrong with reading these types of books.

 

[saturneptune]

I really liked Zig Ziglar. I heard him speak once about 30 years ago and thought he was very uplifting and motivating. In fact, there are things that he said that day that I have never fogotten.

All counsel given to people in the form of speakers, books, etc. doesn't have to be straight from the Word to be profitable. It should line up with and agree with God's Word, but solid counsel can be very secular and still be quite useful.

There are some very valid secular helps that line up with what the Bible teaches. And obviously there is a lot that doesn't.

The point is - all quality counsel should be in harmony with what God teaches beit from His Word, from one's own experience, from the wisdom of those who have gone before us, or from a competent secular source.

I see nothing wrong with reading these types of books.

I agree with you. God gave us a brain and expects us to use it. That seems to be a problem with many today.

 

[evangelist6589]

I agree with you. God gave us a brain and expects us to use it. That seems to be a problem with many today.

Okay so its okay to listen and feed off Joel Osteen whom is at the same level as Ziglar whom both preach self-help. Osteen is a outstanding speaker and communicator. However he preaches nothing but self-help, so his message is very milky and meant for immature christians.

http://www.intouch.org/you/sermon-outlines/content?topic=a_saving_faith_sermon_outline

Maybe Zig Ziglar has this type of faith (I don't know for sure)

B. Faith in God— Believing in God’s existence and His abilities. A person with this kind of faith possesses a confident conviction that God will fulfill what He has promised.

But if so he lacks a saving faith, as he comes to God to get his needs satisfied and to get self-help, not to repent from his sins.

C. Saving Faith—Believing in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, a living person, for the forgiveness of sin and trusting Him because He provides eternal life with God. It isn’t enough to simply believe in the actions of Jesus Christ or the abilities of God. True saving faith is more than that; it is a personal relationship with the Savior.

 

[Arbo]

Okay so its okay to listen and feed off Joel Osteen whom is at the same level as Ziglar whom both preach self-help. Osteen is a outstanding speaker and communicator. However he preaches nothing but self-help, so his message is very milky and meant for immature christians.

One should remember that Osteen bills himself as a pastor and an evangelist, while Ziglar's shtick was that of a motivational speaker (as I understand).

If my opinion were asked, I'd say that I think Osteen's is a well-developed act designed to generate revenue.

 

[Jerome]

Is the OP aware that Hilary Hinton (aka "Zig") Ziglar was an SBC bigwig?

He was Vice President of The Convention when Charles Stanley was President:

Associated Press, June 16, 1984

"Tuesday night the convention's conservatives won their third victory, electing Zig Ziglar, of Dallas, as first vice-president.
Earlier Tuesday, the messengers elected Rev. Charles Stanley of Atlanta to the post of convention president, and named Paul Pressler, of Houston, to the convention's executive committee. Stanley and Pressler are strong conservatives and are allied with Ziglar.
The election of conservatives to three top leadership posts indicated the wishes of the denomination, Pressler said."

 

[saturneptune]

Okay so its okay to listen and feed off Joel Osteen whom is at the same level as Ziglar whom both preach self-help. Osteen is a outstanding speaker and communicator. However he preaches nothing but self-help, so his message is very milky and meant for immature christians.

http://www.intouch.org/you/sermon-outlines/content?topic=a_saving_faith_sermon_outline

Maybe Zig Ziglar has this type of faith (I don't know for sure)

B. Faith in God— Believing in God’s existence and His abilities. A person with this kind of faith possesses a confident conviction that God will fulfill what He has promised.

But if so he lacks a saving faith, as he comes to God to get his needs satisfied and to get self-help, not to repent from his sins.

C. Saving Faith—Believing in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, a living person, for the forgiveness of sin and trusting Him because He provides eternal life with God. It isn’t enough to simply believe in the actions of Jesus Christ or the abilities of God. True saving faith is more than that; it is a personal relationship with the Savior.

No, it is not ok to feed off Joel Olsteen. How did you make that connection? Saving faith is not a book knowledge of Jesus Christ like we think of say George Washington. That is correct. Saving faith is a dynamic, personal relationship with Jesus Christ. A Christian follows Him by the guidance of the Holy Spirit living in us. That does not mean we do not use our brains, which is also from God. He did not give us a brain to sit around and vegetate our whole life away. I would think the parable of the talents would show that. If we are saved, we are using our brains, and making decisions that please the Lord That does not mean we sit around saying "oh well, whatever will be will be."

Trials, temptations, and hard times come to every believer. Well over 60% of those situations are the result of our own decisions.

 

[TadQueasy]

How sad that a comparison is being made between Mr. Ziglar and Osteen.
Osteen is a snake oil salesman. Ziglar from the accounts I have read claimed to have a sincere faith in Christ. Just because he was a motivational speaker does not make him snake oil salesman like Osteen.

 

[Arbo]

How sad that a comparison is being made between Mr. Ziglar and Osteen.
Osteen is a snake oil salesman. Ziglar from the accounts I have read claimed to have a sincere faith in Christ. Just because he was a motivational speaker does not make him snake oil salesman like Osteen.

Well and simply said.:thumbs:

 

[evangelist6589]

How sad that a comparison is being made between Mr. Ziglar and Osteen.
Osteen is a snake oil salesman. Ziglar from the accounts I have read claimed to have a sincere faith in Christ. Just because he was a motivational speaker does not make him snake oil salesman like Osteen.

Read his book "see you at the top" its self-help.

 

[evangelist6589]

Is the OP aware that Hilary Hinton (aka "Zig") Ziglar was an SBC bigwig?

He was Vice President of The Convention when Charles Stanley was President:

Associated Press, June 16, 1984

"Tuesday night the convention's conservatives won their third victory, electing Zig Ziglar, of Dallas, as first vice-president.
Earlier Tuesday, the messengers elected Rev. Charles Stanley of Atlanta to the post of convention president, and named Paul Pressler, of Houston, to the convention's executive committee. Stanley and Pressler are strong conservatives and are allied with Ziglar.
The election of conservatives to three top leadership posts indicated the wishes of the denomination, Pressler said."

Regardless of who or where they hung out, their books are not the same. You need to not worry about who or where they hung out, but focus on the CONTENT of their book(s). People always turn to the where they hang out or who they hang out argument and ignore the content of their books. I notice this is a very common way to argue that many make these days and they do it because they do not like to read.

Compare Ziglar's book "see you at the top" and others to Stanley's Success Gods Way and I can show you directly what I am talking about. No I do did not say compare another of Stanley's books, or something he said in a In Touch magazine article, I said compare that one book to Ziglar's book.

 

[humblethinker]

How sad that a comparison is being made between Mr. Ziglar and Osteen.
Osteen is a snake oil salesman. Ziglar from the accounts I have read claimed to have a sincere faith in Christ. Just because he was a motivational speaker does not make him snake oil salesman like Osteen.

Sad indeed TQ.

 

[saturneptune]

How sad that a comparison is being made between Mr. Ziglar and Osteen.
Osteen is a snake oil salesman. Ziglar from the accounts I have read claimed to have a sincere faith in Christ. Just because he was a motivational speaker does not make him snake oil salesman like Osteen.

That is what I was trying to say, but you said it expressed much better. We were given brains to use. Our lives are not on auto pilot. We cannot use God's sovereignty as an excuse for laziness.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Okay so its okay to listen and feed off Joel Osteen whom is at the same level as Ziglar whom both preach self-help. Osteen is a outstanding speaker and communicator. However he preaches nothing but self-help, so his message is very milky and meant for immature christians.

Brother, as TQ said, how can you compare the two? I'm flabbergasted.

Osteen is someone whom we should all flee from. He claims to be a pastor/preacher and is a false one.

Ziglar was not a preacher. He was a motivator and a very good one.

I read and have read LOTS of speeches, essays, encouraging, and uplifting works from LOTS of secular authors past and present that motivate me to get off my rear and get busy and to see life from the perspective of others and not myself.

SP is right - God gave us a brain to discern with.

Are you going to dismiss all the collective works of Patrick Henry, Barbara Johnson, Winston Churchill, Dr. Suess, and MLK merely because they weren't "preaching"?

Does every book you read and every source of inspiration have to be from a SBC preacher?

 

[evangelist6589]

That is what I was trying to say, but you said it expressed much better. We were given brains to use. Our lives are not on auto pilot. We cannot use God's sovereignty as an excuse for laziness.

Read his book "See you at the Top" as its very much like what Osteen says. Yes I agree with you and we are given brains to use, but we need to read Bible based books. Yes I agree that if we want to learn how to drive a car, shoot a gun, fix a computer, perform CPR, build a resume, and such we need books on those subjects which may or may not be christian. But Ziglar speaks so much about self-esteem, and image its unbiblical. His advice is not practical.

1) Success starts with self-image because you are the only one who can make that possible. Before you convince anyone else, you have to convince yourself.

2) Successful people are ¡°Good Finders¡±; they look for the good in other people. ¡°You can have anything in your life, if you help others get what they want¡±. (page 57)

3) No goals = no game. Activity is not accomplishment. Don¡¯t be a wandering generality. Goals should be big, long range, daily and specific.

4) Unlimited possibilities. Records were meant to be broken. Until Roger Bannister ran the four-minute mile, most thought it was physically impossible. After his achievement, people broke the record constantly.

5) Work as a team. There is a limit to what you can accomplish by yourself. Example: Geese fly 72% farther by flying together.

6) Attitude is everything. It determines the outcome. While you cannot control the environment, you (and only you) can control your attitude. The pessimist says. ¡°I will believe it when I see it.¡± The optimist says, ¡°I will see it when I believe it.¡± (page 206)

7) Create good habits because habits define our lives. Example: The average teenage student watches 17,000 hours of television before they graduate high school.

8) Successful people enjoy their work.

9) Keep going. "The price of success is less than the price of failure". (page 33)

Sounds Biblical heh? Some of it is, but he does not use the Bible at all in this book.

 

[evangelist6589]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0785289194/?tag=baptis04-20

Although this one has some biblical overtones. Yeah he may have been saved, but still had some self-help in him.

 

[Arbo]

Maybe I'm missing the point, but could someone explain why Zig Ziglar and the idea of 'self help' are wrong?