saturneptune
New Member
I follow that pretty well, as the Bible is pretty much the only Book I read in relation to Scripture. Anything written by man is an opinion.
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Zig Ziglar
- Thread starter evangelist6589
- Start date
I enjoyed Zig's seminars all 3 times I attended. I really liked that he took time in his motivational speaking to glorify God and talk about his Christianity.
In this post, the OP kinda reminds of the fellow who was being flooded and the fire truck offered to take him out. The fellow said "Go away, God will provide!" As the water rose higher a boat came and he said the same thing. The water rose so the fellow had to go to the rooftop, a helicopter came and was told the same thing. The water rose and the fellow was swept away and drowned. When he went to Heaven, he asked God "Why, did You not provide for me?" God shook His head and said, "I provided three different times with a truck, boat and a helicopter."
I think it a shame that so many Christians expect God to do everything for them, when God has supplied many of us the talents and skills we need but do not use because it is difficult or in most cases we are lazy.
In this post, the OP kinda reminds of the fellow who was being flooded and the fire truck offered to take him out. The fellow said "Go away, God will provide!" As the water rose higher a boat came and he said the same thing. The water rose so the fellow had to go to the rooftop, a helicopter came and was told the same thing. The water rose and the fellow was swept away and drowned. When he went to Heaven, he asked God "Why, did You not provide for me?" God shook His head and said, "I provided three different times with a truck, boat and a helicopter."
I think it a shame that so many Christians expect God to do everything for them, when God has supplied many of us the talents and skills we need but do not use because it is difficult or in most cases we are lazy.
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TadQueasy
Member
Just because a man writes a self-help book does not make him unsaved and it does not equate him with Osteen. The whole premise for this thread is out of whack.
Osteen is all self-help, so how is he any different than Zig?
TadQueasy
Member
Have you even read any of the responses you got here? :BangHead:
The testimony of Ziglars life is that he was a believer who trusted Christ who wrong some motivational stuff. The testimony of Osteen's life is that he is a snake oil salesman that does not know Christ. If you cannot see the difference in that then I do not know what else to say to you.
Okay maybe I am confused but if so answer this. MacArthur wrote a book "Our sufficiency in Christ" in which he speaks against self-help, psychology, and all that nonsense. If you have not read the book you are familiar with his position I bet. MacArthur says that we do not need self-help for the Bible is more than enough which is the teaching found in Psalms 19. So why rely on me to get it done and to do this and that when the focus should be God and getting it done though his power? Zig, Andy Andrews, and others use self, and human power, and not God and his power.
If someone needed to get a better paying job, if someone needed to find a new church to use their gifts more, then they need to take action, but they need to rely on God and his power in helping accomplish it. While God may not provide a better paying job, the truth is that He may. Self-help types would say that God did not provide a better paying job, because the person wanted it had a bad attitude or did not dream or focus enough, or had a bad self-image. But those believing in the LORDSHIP OF CHRIST will say that Christ is Lord and He may not give a better paying job, because it may not be His will for the moment. It has NOTHING TO DO with me and my self-image or attitude!
The same can be said for finding a spouse. Ziglar would say I need to dream, focus, get a good attitude, and work on my self-image, and God will then find me my dream spouse. But I say that I need to PRAY, work on my relationship with God, and do all that I can to find one (go on dating sites, singles groups at church, local dances and events for singles, etc) and if it is Gods will He will provide a spouse. Finding a spouse may not have anything to do with me, but its all about God and his timing.
I believe its not all God, but its also me. But I believe God is a MAJOR part of the equation here, and Ziglar misses the point because he seems to focus far too much on self-image, self-esteem, and what not.
Please explain.
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If someone needed to get a better paying job, if someone needed to find a new church to use their gifts more, then they need to take action, but they need to rely on God and his power in helping accomplish it. While God may not provide a better paying job, the truth is that He may. Self-help types would say that God did not provide a better paying job, because the person wanted it had a bad attitude or did not dream or focus enough, or had a bad self-image. But those believing in the LORDSHIP OF CHRIST will say that Christ is Lord and He may not give a better paying job, because it may not be His will for the moment. It has NOTHING TO DO with me and my self-image or attitude!
The same can be said for finding a spouse. Ziglar would say I need to dream, focus, get a good attitude, and work on my self-image, and God will then find me my dream spouse. But I say that I need to PRAY, work on my relationship with God, and do all that I can to find one (go on dating sites, singles groups at church, local dances and events for singles, etc) and if it is Gods will He will provide a spouse. Finding a spouse may not have anything to do with me, but its all about God and his timing.
I believe its not all God, but its also me. But I believe God is a MAJOR part of the equation here, and Ziglar misses the point because he seems to focus far too much on self-image, self-esteem, and what not.
Please explain.
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Let me make a different recommendation for the OP to read.
Go all the way through "Confessions of a Happy Christian", then tell me your opinion of Mr. Ziglar.
Don't read a self-help book intended to help salespeople become better at sales and then complain that it is successful.
Read what the man says about his relationship with Christ, and then tell me what he says.
Go all the way through "Confessions of a Happy Christian", then tell me your opinion of Mr. Ziglar.
Don't read a self-help book intended to help salespeople become better at sales and then complain that it is successful.
Read what the man says about his relationship with Christ, and then tell me what he says.
Bob Alkire
New Member
"Confessions of a Happy Christian", is a good book. Many have given it to young Christians, but a friend of mine gave a copy to the 50 and older groups in the church he is the pastor of. He believes it did a lot of good for them, it changed the attitude of a lot of the older Christians. A Christians life is not one in which we look like we have just eaten a persimmon.
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Why do people say that using the expression "self-esteem" is somehow "unbiblical"?
Romans 12:3 .......to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think;
According to this scripture we "ought" to think(esteem) of ourselves(self) in some sort of valued capacity.
The exhortation here is not that "self-esteem" is unbiblical, but that we shouldn't become arrogant, high-minded, or think of ourselves as superior to others.
I don't think Mr. Ziglar has ever taught anything that would fit the latter category.
I mean honestly, if we place no worth, value, or esteem at ALL in ourselves, how would we possibly be able to convey that in others? I think that is exactly the point Mr. Ziglar was making.
Romans 12:3 .......to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think;
According to this scripture we "ought" to think(esteem) of ourselves(self) in some sort of valued capacity.
The exhortation here is not that "self-esteem" is unbiblical, but that we shouldn't become arrogant, high-minded, or think of ourselves as superior to others.
I don't think Mr. Ziglar has ever taught anything that would fit the latter category.
I mean honestly, if we place no worth, value, or esteem at ALL in ourselves, how would we possibly be able to convey that in others? I think that is exactly the point Mr. Ziglar was making.
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I liketa tell this little story about self-help. Years ago, I was driving from Portsmouth, OH to Lawrence Co. OH on Rte 23 at about 1:30 AM.. As I neared the Jesse Stewart bridge going into Ky. I had a tire blow. I immediately pulled off under the bridge so I wouldn't destroy my rim, & prayed to God to protect me as I changed the wheel.
I put out fuzees & reflective triangles from my emergency kit & went to work. Changed the wheel in about 10 min. Not one other car had come my way til I was ready to leave!
Did God protect me UBETCHA! But I did my part as well, putting out warning devices & watching the road for traffic.
Do I believe God coulda protected me had I not put out any warnings ? UBETCHA ! Do I believe He coulda even changed my wheel? UBETCHA ! With GOD, ALL thingsa are possible ! But I hadta do my part & not do anything stupid, while taking proper precautions.
I put out fuzees & reflective triangles from my emergency kit & went to work. Changed the wheel in about 10 min. Not one other car had come my way til I was ready to leave!
Did God protect me UBETCHA! But I did my part as well, putting out warning devices & watching the road for traffic.
Do I believe God coulda protected me had I not put out any warnings ? UBETCHA ! Do I believe He coulda even changed my wheel? UBETCHA ! With GOD, ALL thingsa are possible ! But I hadta do my part & not do anything stupid, while taking proper precautions.