I just wanted to provide a biblical defense of Covenant Theology. Pay attention though because we will be accused of not having scripture to back up our beliefs. But that is okay. The people that are reached most are the one's who read and consider the different positions. They seldom post, but they are there. They are the lurkers! Sounds kind of ominous, does it not?
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The gospel has nothing to do with God's covenant
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
I just wanted to provide a biblical defense of Covenant Theology. Pay attention though because we will be accused of not having scripture to back up our beliefs. But that is okay. The people that are reached most are the one's who read and consider the different positions. They seldom post, but they are there. They are the lurkers! Sounds kind of ominous, does it not?
Yes I agree. This board would be better if most would attempt to offer biblical positions no matter what theology they hold to and good links to consider.Instead study tools, catechisms, Confessions of faith ,links,sermons, are despised and ridiculed.
I also post when not entangled with the opposers what i can for those who are sincere and have gospel motives.
4 And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.:wavey:
This is entirely absurd.
Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 Unto the woman he said...
Are you familiar with the doctrine of inspiration Icon?
The doctrine of inspiration very simply put is that in the original MSS God through the writers of the books of the Bible has recorded exactly what the Holy Spirit wanted to be said. IOW, these are not the words of Moses.
They are the words of God himself as recorded by Moses under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Moses received direct revelation from God. Moses had nothing to do with this. They were the words of God. Please don't attribute these words to Moses, for they aren't the words of a man, but the words of God Himself. To say that they are merely the words of a man is blasphemy. This is the inspired Word of God. It is God's history (His-story)
I agree. I was young in Reformed Theology when I found a venue that allowed me to learn by observing. I felt like I was eight years old and trying to swim again. The water was deep and it was all I could do to tread water. I remember how I learned. I also remember the criticism, ridicule, and general opposition I faced from those whose camp I had been in for more than two decades. Ten years later I am still learning, but I also realize there are others just like me who are observing; struggling with these great truths and looking for answers. That is why I am here.
DHK.....
Do you have the ability to be honest?
here is what i posted....
Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
DHK,
Actually....God is speaking to Moses explaining what took place as Moses was not there. In relaying the events of the fall and curse....
That is divine inspiration...God speaking to Moses
that is what i said....you twist it to this???/
I never said they were.Do i have to read it for you now to? I understand that as you cannot accept the points that i make, you now try and make like i am unfamiliar with Divine inspiration of scripture...Nice try:laugh:
that is what i said:laugh: ....wait let me try another color for you....
So....you failed in your attempt to tie me in with Origen:laugh: so now i question divine Inspiration...lol
You would know what i believe about that if you knew the confession of faith..or the Baptist Catechism!!!
The primary issue is that God has spoken plainly and with
absolute authority to man (Heb. 1:1–2), and this record has been
inscripturated. This Divine revelation in written form continues with full
authority [the meaning of “it is written” (Gk. gegraptai, perfect tense) is “It
stands written with undiminishing authority”]. The real issue is ever the
veracity of God in and through the Bible. The Scriptures are his Word, and we are either obedient or disobedient to him and to them.
8._____The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which at the time of the writing of it was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and by his singular care and providence kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentic; so as in all controversies of religion, the church is finally to appeal to them. But because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have a right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded in the fear of God to read and search them, therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come, that the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship him in an acceptable manner, and through patience and comfort of the Scriptures may have hope.
( Romans 3:2; Isaiah 8:20; Acts 15:15; John 5:39; 1 Corinthians 14:6, 9, 11, 12, 24, 28; Colossians 3:16 )
9._____The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself; and therefore when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched by other places that speak more clearly.
( 2 Peter 1:20, 21; Acts 15:15, 16)
You will try anything to elude the texts offered but that is really not helpful is it.Sorry to disappoint your keen eye DHK...
however i do not deny the scriptures as infallible and inerrant, nor do i promote heresy as you would post about me....
this is just another avoidance of the issue at hand.
Your position is absurd.
God is not explaining anything to Moses. He doesn't have to explain anything to Moses. Moses was a man of great intellect. He wasn't a child that needed things explained to him.
That is entirely opposed to the doctrine of inspiration.
Moses is writing what God the Holy Spirit is directing him to write. It is recorded history. It is not an explanation. It is recorded history just the way that God wanted it to be recorded. God did not need to explain anything to Moses.
It is the same word...so if you are going to speak of church ever again it is the same translated assembly, congregation or church..
1,,1577,ekklesia>
from ek, "out of," and klesis, "a calling" (kaleo, "to call"), was used among the Greeks of a body of citizens "gathered" to discuss the affairs of state, Acts 19:39. In the Sept. it is used to designate the "gathering" of Israel, summoned for any definite purpose, or a "gathering" regarded as representative of the whole nation. In Acts 7:38 it is used of Israel; in 19:32,41, of a riotous mob. It has two applications to companies of Christians, (a) to the whole company of the redeemed throughout the present era, the company of which Christ said, "I will build My Church," Matt. 16:18, and which is further described as "the Church which is His Body," Eph. 1:22; 5:23, (b) in the singular number (e.g., Matt. 18:17, RV marg., "congregation"), to a company consisting of professed believers, e.g., Acts 20:28; 1 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:13; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1; 1 Tim. 3:5, and in the plural, with reference to churches in a district.
Yes the word means "assembly."
An assembly of believers, rock artists, rebels, musicians, bubble-gum chewers, artists, mechanics, or whatever. Assemblies of____________.
The word means assembly. That is what ekklesia means. It is not the definition of a church. It simply means assembly.
To learn what a church is then study the pastoral epistles and the other epistles as well. A church is well organized, obeys the great commission, carries out the two ordinances of the Lord, has a pastor and deacons, etc. The DEFINITION of a church must be garnered from different parts of the Bible. It is an assembly of believers that.......
It is not an assembly of riotous citizens as in Acts 19 is it?
Absurd....DHK...I see what is absurd...
what does Moses intellect have to do with it DHK?
Let me be the first to tell you......
MOSES WAS NOT BORN YET....WHEN GEN 3 HAPPENED:thumbsup:
he was not there DHK.....what do you mean he did not need God to explain it to him?
if God does not tell him what happened we have no idea.
hint.....In genesis 1.....Moses was not there when God created.
Moses did not know what God did, or what God told Adam
God told him....Moses did not just make a story up. God told him exactly what he wanted to reveal to us. Moses would have no way of knowing any of this unless God revealed and explained it to him.
you are just diverting again.
I never said it was. i said it was God's called out people ,those in Covenant with Him...his body....the context tells us what the assembly is....
jumping back and forth between the words and inserting your definition does not change that the context determines the meaning.
If you had a Baptist Catechism you would learn this..DHK-
I already have all that information on ISBE, plus a few other encyclopedias and dictionaries. I don't need your Catechism. In some church constitutions the church has a covenant that each member covenants with each other and with God (when they become members of that particular church) to uphold each other and the standards of the church. Otherwise salvation is not entering into a covenantal relationship with God, for if it was it would be a works related salvation. I am convinced of that. That is what it was at Sinai. We are no longer under the law, but under grace.
Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.
saturneptune
New Member
No you do not. In relation to creeds, confessions and catechisms, it has been mentioned to you the difference between a local autonomous church joining in bylaws or a covenant and a denominational wide creed. If the local church document is flawed, then it only affects one church. If a creed is flawed, it affects an entire denomination. Whichever way, you are hung up on them. Who cares what the chief end of man is?
Do you still believe in transsubstantiation, praying to the saints, confessional booths, holy water, and the book of Macabees?
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
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A verse for Icon:
1 Pedro 5:5
Asimismo, vosotros los más jóvenes, estad sujetos a los mayores; y todos, revestíos de humildad en vuestro trato mutuo, porque DIOS RESISTE A LOS SOBERBIOS, PERO DA GRACIA A LOS HUMILDES.
1 Peter 5:5
Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
1 Pedro 5:5
Asimismo, vosotros los más jóvenes, estad sujetos a los mayores; y todos, revestíos de humildad en vuestro trato mutuo, porque DIOS RESISTE A LOS SOBERBIOS, PERO DA GRACIA A LOS HUMILDES.
1 Peter 5:5
Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
Thanks! You have proven my point well. Who was the covenant made with?
Read the verse carefully.
Thank You Jerome,
That is a great truth that I need to be reminded of often.
In the heat of debate I certainly can lose sight of the long term goal if I focus too much on the short term adversary rather than on pleasing him who has called by His electing love.
Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
There is much hardness out in the world,and here on BB.When I am out in the world I am more on guard for it. As I get older I have a severe dislike for professed Christians who cannot seem to let their yes be yes, and their no be no.
If someone has TRUTH.....they do not need to post or say something that they ...think you were saying.Instead of letting you say exactly what you said. If a statement is in doubt,ask....what did you mean when you said this.Is that to much to ask on a Christian board?
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath
4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.
7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
Icon,
I've been terribly busy with ministry but was reading through some of the posts on this thread and saw your very kind words of encouragement about my reply to SN. Thank you for that encouragement and your continued contributions around here. I'll get back to weighing in when I get a chance. Cheerio!
I've been terribly busy with ministry but was reading through some of the posts on this thread and saw your very kind words of encouragement about my reply to SN. Thank you for that encouragement and your continued contributions around here. I'll get back to weighing in when I get a chance. Cheerio!
saturneptune
New Member
That makes us even. I have a severe dislike for those who substitute opinion for the Word of God, and then, in essence condemns those who do not agree as either believing false doctrine, in error or arrogant. I have a severe dislike for someone who does not know his theology but is a master at cut and paste. I have a severe dislike for someone who uses posts to degrade other Christians.
Jeremiah Spoke of The new covenant That God would make With believers in Israel.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
At This time salvation was only found in Israel.The fact that God had purposed that Gentiles would be grafted into the root Covenant promises on equal footing with believing Jews was not fully revealed until the NT.
God had promised it in the OT but they did not understand it until the Nt time. We believing gentiles are in the New Covenant....right now.:thumbsup:
saturneptune
So....that is why you do not like yourself