Full Preterism: True or False

[OldRegular]

Well, Brother Baker, here's the title to the OP:

Full Preterism: True or False

I stated "false", you then asked why, I stated such, and then the downward spiral......

Then I owe you my deepest apologies. I was paying no attention to the title of the thread. Don't know whether you have experienced it or not but that first mistake is really tough on the ego!

I really do apologize brother. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

 

[OldRegular]

I agree.

I think the AD 70 event was a coming of Christ in judgment just as he said he would in Matthew 24.

I think it could not be more clear that Matthew 24 is referring to AD 70.

I believe that much of the Olivet Discourse is related to 70 AD, however, I believe there is also reference to the return of Jesus Christ at the end of time.

And I think that the future physical resurrection of the dead is supported elsewhere in Scripture.

In a number of places, even the books of Job and Daniel.

I don't believe that there is a doctrine anywhere within orthodox Christianity that has as little scriptural support as the rapture doctrine of the dispnesationalists.

I agree. However I believe there is zero support for the doctrine of the Full preterits. And please i don't want this to become a discussion of dispensationalism.

I am a partial preterist.

I have no real problem with partial preterism as I said in the OP. I just see 70 AD as the judgment of God only.

 

[HisWitness]

The full-preterists have the resurrection and Jesus Christ's return at AD 70. Our hope IS IN the resurrection, which IS Jesus Christ. If these things occurred in AD 70, we have no hope.....but He will come when God the Father tells Him to come in the Cloud, and we will be resurrected that morning.

why dont you have hope!!!!

the SOUL was dead in the apostle's time--that was the DEATH Jesus defeated

since the resurrection that has already happened raised the DEAD SOULS(that DEATH was through Adam)Soul DEATH has been DESTROYED and there is no more SOUL DEATH now--so our SOULS will NEVER die again!!!

OH!!! you have no hope???

My friend youll not die the DEATH that they did-we are truely blessed in our time and this new age

 

[HisWitness]

I agree.

I think the AD 70 event was a coming of Christ in judgment just as he said he would in Matthew 24.

I think it could not be more clear that Matthew 24 is referring to AD 70.

And I think that the future physical resurrection of the dead is supported elsewhere in Scripture.

I don't believe that there is a doctrine anywhere within orthodox Christianity that has as little scriptural support as the rapture doctrine of the dispnesationalists.

I am a partial preterist.

Matthew 24 states THAT GENERATION would NOT pass away till ALL those things he spoke were FULLFILLED-look in it closely and what we call rapture was right there in it with the judgement

 

[OldRegular]

why dont you have hope!!!!

the SOUL was dead in the apostle's time--that was the DEATH Jesus defeated

since the resurrection that has already happened raised the DEAD SOULS(that DEATH was through Adam)Soul DEATH has been DESTROYED and there is no more SOUL DEATH now--so our SOULS will NEVER die again!!!

OH!!! you have no hope???

My friend youll not die the DEATH that they did-we are truely blessed in our time and this new age

I posted the following in response to your remarks on another tread but it seems appropriate given the confusion indicated above!

Death, physical and spiritual, was passed from Adam to all mankind. The Salvation provided by Jesus Christ regenerates the soul dead in sin. The resurrection at the Second Coming will give life to the body of those who die in Jesus Christ. Those who die in unbelief, in Adam, will be resurrected and cast into the Lake of Fire along with Satan! That is the second death.

 

[HisWitness]

I posted the following in response to your remarks on another tread but it seems appropriate given the confusion indicated above!

what do you mean when you say spirtual death ???

 

[OldRegular]

what do you mean when you say spirtual death ???

Spiritual death is the condition of man before the "new birth"!

 

[percho]

why dont you have hope!!!!

the SOUL was dead in the apostle's time--that was the DEATH Jesus defeated

since the resurrection that has already happened raised the DEAD SOULS(that DEATH was through Adam)Soul DEATH has been DESTROYED and there is no more SOUL DEATH now--so our SOULS will NEVER die again!!!

OH!!! you have no hope???

My friend youll not die the DEATH that they did-we are truely blessed in our time and this new age

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, (Hades) neither his flesh did see corruption.

Concerning, Jesus the Christ, the Son of the living God, the soul of him was resurrected from Hades and the body of same did not see corruption and is not to return to corruption again and neither can he die again. This was done by God his Father, by his The Father's Spirit See Rom 8:11. He also renewed him with the power of the Holy Spirit. See Acts 2:33, Romans 1:4

That was his baptism he had to be baptized with in Luke 12:50.
Death, burial, made alive again (regeneration), receiving the Holy Spirit, declared the the Son of God. Every bit of that was pictured at the water baptism of Jesus.
Romans 1:4 And declared the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Matt 20:23 Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:

That part of that verse was directly related to ruling with him in the throne of his glory. The request verse 21 Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
The answer last of verse 23 but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.

2 Tim 4:1 I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

I put the comer where it should be after regeneration.


The gates of Hades shall not prevail over her. (the souls who make up the assembly of called out ones, the church) Death, the gates of the souls into Hades, shall not prevail against her for they will be resurrected just as Jesus was.

 

[HisWitness]

Spiritual death is the condition of man before the "new birth"!

where in the scriptures do you get a spiritual death--adam was the same man with the same temptations before and after the fall--when God said ADAM would die--thats not some supposed spiritual death--and it wasnt bodily death(body was just the temple in which man lives)

The scriptures teach the SOUL that sinneth shall DIE(DEATH that was through Adam)The SOUL is the real us,that which is inside the body.

there is no scriptual evidence for a so called spiritual death--but theres scriptures through the whole bible that proves that the DEATH was SOUL DEATH SOUL and BODY KILLED in HELL(Grave)it was like you never exsisted--that is until God Resurrected the DEAD(SOUL DEAD)

 

[HisWitness]

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, (Hades) neither his flesh did see corruption.

Concerning, Jesus the Christ, the Son of the living God, the soul of him was resurrected from Hades and the body of same did not see corruption and is not to return to corruption again and neither can he die again. This was done by God his Father, by his The Father's Spirit See Rom 8:11. He also renewed him with the power of the Holy Spirit. See Acts 2:33, Romans 1:4

That was his baptism he had to be baptized with in Luke 12:50.
Death, burial, made alive again (regeneration), receiving the Holy Spirit, declared the the Son of God. Every bit of that was pictured at the water baptism of Jesus.
Romans 1:4 And declared the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Matt 20:23 Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:

That part of that verse was directly related to ruling with him in the throne of his glory. The request verse 21 Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
The answer last of verse 23 but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.

2 Tim 4:1 I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

I put the comer where it should be after regeneration.


The gates of Hades shall not prevail over her. (the souls who make up the assembly of called out ones, the church) Death, the gates of the souls into Hades, shall not prevail against her for they will be resurrected just as Jesus was.

Good Post :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[OldRegular]

where in the scriptures do you get a spiritual death--adam was the same man with the same temptations before and after the fall--when God said ADAM would die--thats not some supposed spiritual death--and it wasnt bodily death(body was just the temple in which man lives)

The scriptures teach the SOUL that sinneth shall DIE(DEATH that was through Adam)The SOUL is the real us,that which is inside the body.

there is no scriptual evidence for a so called spiritual death--but theres scriptures through the whole bible that proves that the DEATH was SOUL DEATH SOUL and BODY KILLED in HELL(Grave)it was like you never exsisted--that is until God Resurrected the DEAD(SOUL DEAD)

I suggest that you respond to the OP rather than attempting to derail this thread. I have answered your question regarding spiritual death. If you don't agree with it start your own thread. On this one we are discussing Full Preterism; True or False!

 

[OldRegular]

percho

This thread is to discuss Full Preterism: True or False. Please stay on topic and don't chase the rabbits that HisWitness drags in! I have made the same request of him!

 

[HisWitness]

I suggest that you respond to the OP rather than attempting to derail this thread. I have answered your question regarding spiritual death. If you don't agree with it start your own thread. On this one we are discussing Full Preterism; True or False!

sorry friend no harm meant

 

[percho]

percho

This thread is to discuss Full Preterism: True or False. Please stay on topic and don't chase the rabbits that HisWitness drags in! I have made the same request of him!

Sorry, I forgot to put False at the beginning or ending. The post says false from what little I know of Preterism.

 

[HisWitness]

In his book, The Last Days According to Jesus, R. C. Sproul summarizes the doctrine of Full Preterism using four criteria or events, contrasting Full Preterism with Partial Preterism [page157].

The four criteria or Events are:

1. The Coming [parousia or presence] of Jesus Christ.

2. Resurrection and Rapture.

3. Day of the Lord.

4. Judgment.

The Full Preterist believe that all of these Events occurred in 70 AD and that none will ever occur again. The Partial Preterist believes that Events 1, 3, and 4 occurred in some sense in 70 AD but that all will occur sometime in the Future. My own personal opinion, and I believe the teaching of Scripture, is that the only Event that occurred in 70AD was God's judgment of the Jews and the destruction of the Temple decisively demonstrating that the Old Covenant was no more. I believe that part of the Olivet Discourse of Jesus Christ is a prophecy of the events of 70 AD and part is a prophecy of the Visible Return of Jesus Christ at the end of time.

If the Partial Preterists want to believe that the events of 70 AD can be characterized as a parousia and a Day of the Lord, as well as a judgment, then I see no over riding error with that belief though I personally do not see that in Scripture. However, the idea of the parousia [or presence of Jesus Christ] in 70 AD is troubling.

I totally disagree with the Full Preterist view and believe there is absolutely no Biblical support for denying the occurrence of the four events at the end of time. It seems to me that there is one passage of Scripture that destroys the Full Preterist doctrine, the prophecy of Jesus Christ concerning the Resurrection of the body:

John 5:28, 29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Now I understand that those of premillennial persuasion will insist that the above Scripture pictures a resurrection at two different periods. I do not want this thread to deteriorate into a debate over that issue.

I want the Full Preterists on this Board to demonstrate through Scripture and the history of the 70 AD events that the resurrections of the above Scripture occurred at that time!

all 4 of those events are in matthew 24--as i have made a thread on discussing the contents of matthew 24--i say true to all 4 -)

 

[convicted1]

why dont you have hope!!!!

the SOUL was dead in the apostle's time--that was the DEATH Jesus defeated

since the resurrection that has already happened raised the DEAD SOULS(that DEATH was through Adam)Soul DEATH has been DESTROYED and there is no more SOUL DEATH now--so our SOULS will NEVER die again!!!

OH!!! you have no hope???

My friend youll not die the DEATH that they did-we are truely blessed in our time and this new age

Brother, full preterists believe that Jesus' 2nd coming, and the resurrection of the dead took place in AD 70, if I understand it correctly. Now, our hope is in the resurrection at Jesus' 2nd coming, with full preterists stating it already occurred. If that's the case, we have no hope.....seeing that our bodies won't be resurrected, neither Jesus returning in the Cloud at a future date.

 

[convicted1]

Then I owe you my deepest apologies. I was paying no attention to the title of the thread. Don't know whether you have experienced it or not but that first mistake is really tough on the ego!

I really do apologize brother. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

H2O under the bridge......I know you are in the PT camp with me.....:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[saturneptune]

I agree with this.

A question for you: when we come forth from the graves with a new body likened unto Jesus' most glorious body, do you believe it to be phyiscal or spritual in its form? Personally, I believe it to be spiritual.

I believe our glorified body to be exactly like the body Jesus had when he appeared to the Disciples in the upper room. I suppose it is spiritual, but He could talk, eat, etc, yet could appear and disappear at will.

 

[saturneptune]

The full-preterists have the resurrection and Jesus Christ's return at AD 70. Our hope IS IN the resurrection, which IS Jesus Christ. If these things occurred in AD 70, we have no hope.....but He will come when God the Father tells Him to come in the Cloud, and we will be resurrected that morning.

That is different from what you told me a few months ago. You said you believed that the Second Coming was 70 AD in Jerusalem. You went on to say that this was a stop over for the Lord on His way to South America so the Book of Mormon could be written. The angel Macaroni had a deadline on the golden leafs in 72 AD. I know you remember this from when you were holding the banner high for Mittins.

Here is a pic of Macaroni celebrating at a celestial party shortly after finishing the golden leaves.

 

[Yeshua1]

In his book, The Last Days According to Jesus, R. C. Sproul summarizes the doctrine of Full Preterism using four criteria or events, contrasting Full Preterism with Partial Preterism [page157].

The four criteria or Events are:

1. The Coming [parousia or presence] of Jesus Christ.

2. Resurrection and Rapture.

3. Day of the Lord.

4. Judgment.

The Full Preterist believe that all of these Events occurred in 70 AD and that none will ever occur again. The Partial Preterist believes that Events 1, 3, and 4 occurred in some sense in 70 AD but that all will occur sometime in the Future. My own personal opinion, and I believe the teaching of Scripture, is that the only Event that occurred in 70AD was God's judgment of the Jews and the destruction of the Temple decisively demonstrating that the Old Covenant was no more. I believe that part of the Olivet Discourse of Jesus Christ is a prophecy of the events of 70 AD and part is a prophecy of the Visible Return of Jesus Christ at the end of time.

If the Partial Preterists want to believe that the events of 70 AD can be characterized as a parousia and a Day of the Lord, as well as a judgment, then I see no over riding error with that belief though I personally do not see that in Scripture. However, the idea of the parousia [or presence of Jesus Christ] in 70 AD is troubling.

I totally disagree with the Full Preterist view and believe there is absolutely no Biblical support for denying the occurrence of the four events at the end of time. It seems to me that there is one passage of Scripture that destroys the Full Preterist doctrine, the prophecy of Jesus Christ concerning the Resurrection of the body:

John 5:28, 29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Now I understand that those of premillennial persuasion will insist that the above Scripture pictures a resurrection at two different periods. I do not want this thread to deteriorate into a debate over that issue.

I want the Full Preterists on this Board to demonstrate through Scripture and the history of the 70 AD events that the resurrections of the above Scripture occurred at that time!

Full pretierism denies the physical bodily resurrection of jesus and the saints to come, as they hold to already happened in a 'spiritual sense"

Hasn't the full view always been seen as denying the literal Seconfd coming and as heresy?