Hell

[Bronconagurski]

scripture for the Hell(Holding Cell) that people go to ?

I just gave it to you. You are hopeless. Go to Revelation 20 and read about the great white throne judgement. Furthermore, in the true story about the rich man and Lazarus found in Luke 16, the rich man lifted up his eyes in Hell. Luke 16:23 (KJV)
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. That rich man will stay in hell until he is judged at the great white throne judgement and cast into the lake of fire.

Hell, the greek word being Hades, means grave, hell, place of departed souls. Of all the places used in the N.T. only one was translated grave. Here are all the references.

Luke 10:15-16 (KJV)
15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
Luke 16:23 (KJV)
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar
Acts 2:27 (KJV)
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 2:31 (KJV)
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
1 Corinthians 15:55 (KJV)
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Revelation 1:18 (KJV)
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelation 6:7-8 (KJV)
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Revelation 20:13-15 (KJV)
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[HisWitness]

I just gave it to you. You are hopeless. Go to Revelation 20 and read about the great white throne judgement. Furthermore, in the true story about the rich man and Lazarus found in Luke 16, the rich man lifted up his eyes in Hell. Luke 16:23 (KJV)
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. That rich man will stay in hell until he is judged at the great white throne judgement and cast into the lake of fire.

Hell, the greek word being Hades, means grave, hell, place of departed souls. Of all the places used in the N.T. only one was translated grave. Here are all the references.

Luke 10:15-16 (KJV)
15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
Luke 16:23 (KJV)
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar
Acts 2:27 (KJV)
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 2:31 (KJV)
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
1 Corinthians 15:55 (KJV)
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Revelation 1:18 (KJV)
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelation 6:7-8 (KJV)
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Revelation 20:13-15 (KJV)
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

the rich man and lazarus is NOT true,its a parable.

Matthew 13-34:All these things spake jesus unto the multitudes in parables,and WITHOUT a parable spake he NOT unto them.

Doesnt get any plainer than that scripture reveals

 

[Bronconagurski]

the rich man and lazarus is NOT true,its a parable.

Matthew 13-34:All these things spake jesus unto the multitudes in parables,and WITHOUT a parable spake he NOT unto them.

Doesnt get any plainer than that scripture reveals

I would agree with you if that scripture was actually found before the true story of Lazarus and the rich man, but it does not. You can't just rip verses out of context, pal. Prove to me that the scripture in Matt. is talking about the true story in Luke. You can't. The reason I know it's a true story is that it uses Lazarus' name. You don't find any parables that use proper names.

 

[HisWitness]

I would agree with you if that scripture was actually found before the true story of Lazarus and the rich man, but it does not. You can't just rip verses out of context, pal. Prove to me that the scripture in Matt. is talking about the true story in Luke. You can't. The reason I know it's a true story is that it uses Lazarus' name. You don't find any parables that use proper names.

Friend it said jesus did NOT speak unto the multitudes(no matter the time or place he spoke to them)except with PARABLES.

i take jesus words there myself--and repeat what he said

all the things you are adding to it and try to make it not a parable is rebuking the words of Christ myfriend

 

[Bronconagurski]

Friend it said jesus did NOT speak unto the multitudes(no matter the time or place he spoke to them)except with PARABLES.

i take jesus words there myself--and repeat what he said

all the things you are adding to it and try to make it not a parable is rebuking the words of Christ myfriend

You, are a liar. Satan is using you to distort the Holy Word of God, and you won't get away with it. If what you say is true, then the sermon on the mount is a parable. Jesus did use parables, but he never used proper names in them. Find me one where he did. You can't. Furthermore, in the true story of Lazarus, he also quoted Abraham and referenced Moses. If you say this is a parable and not true, then you are the one making Jesus a liar. Jesus never quoted or referenced any of the true patriarchs in His parables.

 

[5solas]

the rich man and lazarus is NOT true,its a parable.

Matthew 13-34:All these things spake jesus unto the multitudes in parables,and WITHOUT a parable spake he NOT unto them.

Doesnt get any plainer than that scripture reveals

Matthew 13:34 obviously refers to the account of that chapter and more specifically verses 1-33. If everything Jesus spoke to the multitudes was a parable, why would the Scripture need to say that certain things were parables? You can't understand a Scripture until you understand its context, and you can't rip a verse out of context to apply to another verse in a different context.

Parables were simply one way of communication, they were not the only form of communication Jesus used,

 

[HisWitness]

You, are a liar. Satan is using you to distort the Holy Word of God, and you won't get away with it. If what you say is true, then the sermon on the mount is a parable. Jesus did use parables, but he never used proper names in them. Find me one where he did. You can't. Furthermore, in the true story of Lazarus, he also quoted Abraham and Moses. If you say this is a parable and not true, then you are the one making Jesus a liar. Jesus never quoted any of the true patriarchs in His parables.

No friend understand this---The sermon on the mount was spoken to the disciples ONLY!!!

Lazarus and rich man --there was multitudes there along with the disciples--and anytime that was the case he always spake in parables just as he said--and in another text the disciples came unto him later when they were alone and asked him the meaning of 1 of the parables he spoke.

when you have disciples alone with christ--they are not parables.

when you have multitudes there listening also--they are ALWAYS parables just as he said--plenty of evidence through new testament on this!!!

 

[5solas]

No friend understand this---The sermon on the mount was spoken to the disciples ONLY!!!

Lazarus and rich man --there was multitudes there along with the disciples--and anytime that was the case he always spake in parables just as he said--and in another text the disciples came unto him later when they were alone and asked him the meaning of 1 of the parables he spoke.

when you have disciples alone with christ--they are not parables.

when you have multitudes there listening also--they are ALWAYS parables just as he said--plenty of evidence through new testament on this!!!

It is not provable by Scripture that the sermon on the mount was to the disciples only. In fact, there is actually evidence to the contrary. Let's start with the pronoun "them"

"5
1*Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him.
2*And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:" Matthew 5:1-2 ESV

In this verse there are two possible nouns that them could refer to: crowds or disciples. Sometimes, a pronoun refers to the nearest noun to it, but in this case it does not. In the Greek, crowds is a noun in the accusative case and disciples is a noun in the nominative case. The pronoun used for "them" is in the accusative case which implies that "them" refers to the crowds, not the disciples.

Another, more blatant indication is the fact that you only used one account of the Sermon on the Mount. Let us consider the Lucan account:

"17*And he came down with them and stood on a level place, with a great crowd of his disciples and a great multitude of people from all Judea and Jerusalem and the seacoast of Tyre and Sidon," Luke 6:17 ESV

So, in light of these Scriptures, do you still say Jesus spoke to the multitudes exclusively in parables?

 

[HisWitness]

It is not provable by Scripture that the sermon on the mount was to the disciples only. In fact, there is actually evidence to the contrary. Let's start with the pronoun "them"

"5
1*Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him.
2*And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:" Matthew 5:1-2 ESV

In this verse there are two possible nouns that them could refer to: crowds or disciples. Sometimes, a pronoun refers to the nearest noun to it, but in this case it does not. In the Greek, crowds is a noun in the accusative case and disciples is a noun in the nominative case. The pronoun used for "them" is in the accusative case which implies that "them" refers to the crowds, not the disciples.

Another, more blatant indication is the fact that you only used one account of the Sermon on the Mount. Let us consider the Lucan account:

"17*And he came down with them and stood on a level place, with a great crowd of his disciples and a great multitude of people from all Judea and Jerusalem and the seacoast of Tyre and Sidon," Luke 6:17 ESV

So, in light of these Scriptures, do you still say Jesus spoke to the multitudes exclusively in parables?

Jesus went into the mountain to get away from the multitudes and the disciples came unto him--and he taught them(who just came unto him--Disciples,the multitudes was not on the mountain)so the teaching was to the disciples only

the Luke account says he came down with his disciples from the mountain and stood on level ground--the multitudes were already on the level ground when they got there friend--then you have them all there together

So brother with the proper understanding of these verses--do you still ignore the words of Christ???

anytime multitudes was around he spoke in parables

why is it so hard for you to see this ? Jesus said thats what he done i did not

 

[5solas]

Jesus went into the mountain to get away from the multitudes and the disciples came unto him--and he taught them(who just came unto him--Disciples,the multitudes was not on the mountain)so the teaching was to the disciples only

the Luke account says he came down with his disciples from the mountain and stood on level ground--the multitudes were already on the level ground when they got there friend--then you have them all there together

So brother with the proper understanding of these verses--do you still ignore the words of Christ???

anytime multitudes was around he spoke in parables

why is it so hard for you to see this ? Jesus said thats what he done i did not

I urge you to return to the text. Luke 6:17 occurs BEFORE Christ gives the "Sermon on the mount". Nowhere in the text does it say that Christ went to the mountain to escape the multitude.

Before commenting on the passages, I encourage you to actually read and see for yourself that the Lucan passage is addressed to the multitudes. It is inescapable in the text.

Also, Jesus did not say that He only spoke in parables, that is a comment inserted by Matthew referring to the account given in Matthew 13. As you should notice, it is almost exclusively parables.

 

[HisWitness]

I urge you to return to the text. Luke 6:17 occurs BEFORE Christ gives the "Sermon on the mount". Nowhere in the text does it say that Christ went to the mountain to escape the multitude.

Before commenting on the passages, I encourage you to actually read and see for yourself that the Lucan passage is addressed to the multitudes. It is inescapable in the text.

Also, Jesus did not say that He only spoke in parables, that is a comment inserted by Matthew referring to the account given in Matthew 13. As you should notice, it is almost exclusively parables.

after further study from Matthew and Luke account of that--it does appear that Jesus and disciples did come down from mountain and were with the multitudes when Jesus began to teach

Also in Matthew the disciples came to jesus and asked why he taught the multitudes with parables and heres his response:
Matthew 13-11:He answered and said unto them;Because it is given unto you(disciples)to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven,BUT to them(multitudes) it is NOT given.

So too straighten up the things i said earlier about disciples and multitudes.
When Jesus was talking unto the multitudes-he spoke to them with parables.
When jesus was speaking unto disciples-it was NOT parables.
And when the disciples were present when jesus spoke to multitudes in parables--Jesus always explained to disciples what parables meant.

Now Luke 16 records Lazarus and the rich man--notice how the rich man was not named ?
Also notice at the beginning of chapter 15,How it and chapter 16 is unto the multitudes(publicans and sinners,pharisees,scribes) the disciples were present and were being spoken to also,but the whole text from both chapters were unto the multitudes.others say that was not a parable because the translater put it in our bible--but everything else the tranlater put as parables.Now why would jesus tell all parables but on 1 occasion not ?Just because he named Lazarus is not proof thats it not a parable--maybe jesus was telling them that because soon after 3-5 days or so the Real Lazarus was to die and be resurrected before them all as a sign?
Bur still Jesus spoke to the multitudes in parables because it was not given to them to understand. It was a parable still just like jesus said.Regardless of what the UN-INSPIRED translater put in the middle or the bottom of our bibles of what he thought it meant.

 

[HisWitness]

I urge you to return to the text. Luke 6:17 occurs BEFORE Christ gives the "Sermon on the mount". Nowhere in the text does it say that Christ went to the mountain to escape the multitude.

Before commenting on the passages, I encourage you to actually read and see for yourself that the Lucan passage is addressed to the multitudes. It is inescapable in the text.

Also, Jesus did not say that He only spoke in parables, that is a comment inserted by Matthew referring to the account given in Matthew 13. As you should notice, it is almost exclusively parables.

also if that place was real dont you think the REAL Lazarus after resurrection would have been telling people about that place and what went on there and warning others of the other place the rich man was in--theres no scripture or historical evidence that he did any of those things.

 

[5solas]

You still do not understand that Matthew 13:34 is a statement among a group of parables speaking about a certain occurrence. Let's examine Luke 16 for a moment. All parables you say?

Luke 16:14-18 ESV
14*The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all these things, and they ridiculed him. 15*And he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
16*“The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. 17*But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

18 Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.

These verses are certainly not a parable.

Also, your argument concerning Lazarus not mentioning the place that the rich man was in is fallacious. Lazarus is a somewhat common name during that time, it is wrong to assume that the Lazarus in Luke 16 is the same as the Lazarus in John 11.

Concerning the rich man's name, the omission of the rich man's name does nothing to support the argument that this is not a parable. While the mentioning of a name is not exclusive proof that this is a parable, when grouped with the facts that this is not declared by the text to be a parable and that this does not deal with an earthly event with a spiritual meaning, but instead deals with a spiritual event relating to something on earth.

Regardless of this being a parable or a true story, the truth about hell still remains.

 

[Bronconagurski]

also if that place was real dont you think the REAL Lazarus after resurrection would have been telling people about that place and what went on there and warning others of the other place the rich man was in--theres no scripture or historical evidence that he did any of those things.

They are not the same Lazarus. Do you know anything about the bible? The Lazarus that Jesus raised from the dead was Mary and Martha's brother and they lived in Bethany. He is not the same Lazarus as the beggar in the true story of the Lazarus and the rich man. Sheesh. Just like John the Baptist and John the Apostle were different people. Two different people with the same name. Get a grip and admit you are wrong on all counts and don't have a clue how to rightly divide the bible. That could be because you are not saved, I don't know, but you certainly don't know the bible.

 

[HisWitness]

You still do not understand that Matthew 13:34 is a statement among a group of parables speaking about a certain occurrence. Let's examine Luke 16 for a moment. All parables you say?

Luke 16:14-18 ESV
14*The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all these things, and they ridiculed him. 15*And he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
16*“The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. 17*But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

18 Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.

These verses are certainly not a parable.

Also, your argument concerning Lazarus not mentioning the place that the rich man was in is fallacious. Lazarus is a somewhat common name during that time, it is wrong to assume that the Lazarus in Luke 16 is the same as the Lazarus in John 11.

Concerning the rich man's name, the omission of the rich man's name does nothing to support the argument that this is not a parable. While the mentioning of a name is not exclusive proof that this is a parable, when grouped with the facts that this is not declared by the text to be a parable and that this does not deal with an earthly event with a spiritual meaning, but instead deals with a spiritual event relating to something on earth.

Regardless of this being a parable or a true story, the truth about hell still remains.

yes there is surely a hell we can agree
but what type and for how long of a time is another thing

 

[5solas]

Revelation 20:10-15 ESV
"10*and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.11*Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12*And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13*And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14*Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15*And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Perhaps you have been confused in the past with the specific terminology used. The lake of fire is commonly referred to as Hell. It is undeniable without distorting the Word of God that the lake of fire is a literal place of eternal torment for all who are not written in the Lamb's book of life. It is the ultimate destination of all who do not believe. Currently they are held in Hades, thus Hades gives over its contents to the lake of fire.

 

[HisWitness]

Revelation 20:10-15 ESV
"10*and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.11*Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12*And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13*And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14*Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15*And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Perhaps you have been confused in the past with the specific terminology used. The lake of fire is commonly referred to as Hell. It is undeniable without distorting the Word of God that the lake of fire is a literal place of eternal torment for all who are not written in the Lamb's book of life. It is the ultimate destination of all who do not believe. Currently they are held in Hades, thus Hades gives over its contents to the lake of fire.

for ever and ever is not translated eternal- ever is denoted as Aion(Age)

thats just the translation that was given to it by a UN-INSPIRED man.

Age is ending at some point.whether a short amount of time or long--it will end at some point. So in light of the lake of fire--whatever it was or is? it is only age lasting and will come to an end

Also i didnt know there was DAY and NIGHT in Hell ? Nor did i know the presence of Christ and his Holy Angels were in hell? would you like to explain them ?

 

[5solas]

I have no idea where you learned that information, but I see no support for it. Let's examine the Greek [I will be using English transliterations of the Greek words]:

The last three words in Revelation 20:10 in English are: "Forever and ever" [ESV]
This construction in the Greek text is "eis aionon." Literally translated, this means "into ever[more]." Whenever this construction including the extra "on" on the root word "aion" occurs, the rendering is ALWAYS referring to eternity, as is the case here. Even when the word "aion" stands alone, the only cases where it is translated "age" are Ephesians 2:7 (that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus [KJV]) and Colossians 1:26 (Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but is now made manifest to His saints. [KJV]) which refer to eternity future and eternity past, respectively.

The punishment of the lake of fire is indeed eternal, the text supports this.

Resources consulted: Strong's concordance, UBS Greek New Testament 4th Edition, Logos Bible software.

 

[HisWitness]

I have no idea where you learned that information, but I see no support for it. Let's examine the Greek [I will be using English transliterations of the Greek words]:

The last three words in Revelation 20:10 in English are: "Forever and ever" [ESV]
This construction in the Greek text is "eis aionon." Literally translated, this means "into ever[more]." Whenever this construction including the extra "on" on the root word "aion" occurs, the rendering is ALWAYS referring to eternity, as is the case here. Even when the word "aion" stands alone, the only cases where it is translated "age" are Ephesians 2:7 (that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus [KJV]) and Colossians 1:26 (Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but is now made manifest to His saints. [KJV]) which refer to eternity future and eternity past, respectively.

The punishment of the lake of fire is indeed eternal, the text supports this.

Resources consulted: Strong's concordance, UBS Greek New Testament 4th Edition, Logos Bible software.

what about the presence of the lord and Holy angels in Hell? Rev.14-10

 

[5solas]

Continue reading in order to understand what "in the presence of" actually means. "In the presence of" does not mean that God and the angels actually take Hell as their abode. Instead, it means that those in Hell are "before" or "in the sight of" God and the angels. Verse 11 clarifies this by stating that the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever.

The text does not say that God "lives" in the lake of fire, but rather that their existence in Hell is observed by the Lord.