The seeker friendly movement in the Fundamentalist movement

[evangelist6589]

It seems as if the unbiblical evangelism methodology found in many seeker friendly churches have infiltrated the Fundamentalist movement. Friendship evangelism is very popular in the seeker churches and also seems popular in some IFB churches. Sad as it is, but the singles ministry in my church has gone down the slide and allowed this unbiblical methodology to dictate their practices. The leader does not believe in the word of God and always uses his experience and opinions as the authority over what the Bible clearly teaches in Mark, The Acts of the Apostles, among other places. I am so sad and think I have had enough of serving in their nursing home ministry. If I can't proclaim the word of God but have to somehow be a "friend" and hope that one will come to life this way, then I am seriously doing something wrong. I am sad very sad indeed of all this and Satan's presence in the church. While God "can" use other ways to reach people, the way He reaches people in the Bible is primarily through preaching.

 

[12strings]

It seems as if the unbiblical evangelism methodology found in many seeker friendly churches have infiltrated the Fundamentalist movement. Friendship evangelism is very popular in the seeker churches and also seems popular in some IFB churches.

It depends on your definition of friendship evangelism. If these:

Some people believe that friendship evangelism requires Christians to become friends with unbelievers, establishing a relationship before attempting to address their need for a Savior. Some see friendship evangelism as living a solid righteous life—a living testimony—before others so that they desire that kind of life and ask how to achieve it. At that point, the gospel is shared. Still others believe that living a righteous life in the world is evangelism enough and that no further efforts are necessary. The theory is that unbelievers will be so convicted of his need for that kind of life that they will seek God on their own.


...then I agree these are not biblical. However I do thing we must show kindness and care for people as we are sharing the Gospel with them. This does not take weeks or months of friendship building, it can take a few seconds to show concern for someone, such that our message is matched by our tone. An extreme example of how this is important would be a man dressed as a clown laughing while telling everyone that an invading army is coming to kill them. It just wouldn't register

The leader does not believe in the word of God and always uses his experience and opinions as the authority over what the Bible clearly teaches in Mark, The Acts of the Apostles, among other places.

If this is true, you may want to have a talk with him privately.

 

[John of Japan]

It seems as if the unbiblical evangelism methodology found in many seeker friendly churches have infiltrated the Fundamentalist movement. Friendship evangelism is very popular in the seeker churches and also seems popular in some IFB churches. Sad as it is, but the singles ministry in my church has gone down the slide and allowed this unbiblical methodology to dictate their practices. The leader does not believe in the word of God and always uses his experience and opinions as the authority over what the Bible clearly teaches in Mark, The Acts of the Apostles, among other places. I am so sad and think I have had enough of serving in their nursing home ministry. If I can't proclaim the word of God but have to somehow be a "friend" and hope that one will come to life this way, then I am seriously doing something wrong. I am sad very sad indeed of all this and Satan's presence in the church. While God "can" use other ways to reach people, the way He reaches people in the Bible is primarily through preaching.

Personally, if a person is witnessing for Christ, I don't care what he or she calls it or what method it is: soul-winning, door-to-door, street work, friendship evangelism, lifestyle evangelism, seeker sensitive, direct evangelism, indirect evangelism, etc. If the person is witnessing for Christ, they are doing something right. The Apostle Paul was even glad when his enemies proclaimed Christ trying to get him in deeper trouble (Phil. 1:15-18)!

Having said that, there was a book out some years ago entitled Friendship Evangelism that was full of scorn for methods of direct evangelism, and that was very offensive. Likewise, some of these seeker sensitive types are scornful of the traditional ways, and that's not right either.

Edited in: The thing is, here in a Confucian country, it's all about relationships, which are the foundation of Confucianism. If it is therefore wrong for me to have some level of friendship relationship with a person to try to win them to Christ, then few people would ever get saved. Right now I meet with an unsaved man every week to study the Bible, and have so for many months, though he is not saved yet. There is little chance he will be saved without this relationship. Again, my wife has been friends with an unsaved Japanese woman for years, and they do things together. Patty witnesses to Junko when she has a chance, but Junko is just not ready, so Patty is waiting patiently to be there for Junko when she is ready.

 

[Revmitchell]

What in the world is wrong with building relationships with people in order gain their trust and win them to Christ?

 

[saturneptune]

Since the concept of a "fundamentalist Baptist" is built on a foundation of strawmen and if full of so much baloney to put it nicely, to describe a catagory of telling the Good News to others is kind of a moot point.

The whole premise of fundys is that they are seperate and holy. They claim they are the true independent local church, apart from say the SBC, which they claim is a denomination. Nothing could be further from the truth. The SBC is not a denomination, but a confederation of local, autonomous churches. The entire concept of fundamentalism is a false one. Lots of religious groups are built on false premises, such as the RCC, Latter Day Saints, and JWs.

They claim they are the only group to put Jesus and the Bible first, which is a false witness within itself. This is exactly what other Baptists, such as the SBC do, as do many Protestant groups.

Telling others the Good News is telling someone exactly what the Bible says. Nothing needs to be added to it, such as a third grade brat approach with a chip on the messenger's shoulders. One can tell of the consequences of dying without Jesus without screaming it in their face. Just because a person does not always act angry, does not mean it is a watered down message like Joel Olsteen delivers.

Fundamentalism, as it exists today, does nothing, absolutely nothing to bring praise and honor to the Lord.

 

[Bronconagurski]

Since the concept of a "fundamentalist Baptist" is built on a foundation of strawmen and if full of so much baloney to put it nicely, to describe a catagory of telling the Good News to others is kind of a moot point.

The whole premise of fundys is that they are seperate and holy. They claim they are the true independent local church, apart from say the SBC, which they claim is a denomination. Nothing could be further from the truth. The SBC is not a denomination, but a confederation of local, autonomous churches. The entire concept of fundamentalism is a false one. Lots of religious groups are built on false premises, such as the RCC, Latter Day Saints, and JWs.

They claim they are the only group to put Jesus and the Bible first, which is a false witness within itself. This is exactly what other Baptists, such as the SBC do, as do many Protestant groups.

Telling others the Good News is telling someone exactly what the Bible says. Nothing needs to be added to it, such as a third grade brat approach with a chip on the messenger's shoulders. One can tell of the consequences of dying without Jesus without screaming it in their face. Just because a person does not always act angry, does not mean it is a watered down message like Joel Olsteen delivers.

Fundamentalism, as it exists today, does nothing, absolutely nothing to bring praise and honor to the Lord.

Do you feel better? I mean, it sound like you got a load off your chest there. I am in an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church, and I have never heard any of those assertions made you just pointed out. Bitter much? What I have heard, and do believe, is that we are the closest to the way I believe. If that is sin, then so is using the bible version you think is closest to the original. Good grief, all the sin and lost folks in the world and we have to argue which Baptists are best. According to you, all Independent Baptist Churches are frauds. Nice, brother, real nice.

 

[saturneptune]

Do you feel better? I mean, it sound like you got a load off your chest there. I am in an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church, and I have never heard any of those assertions made you just pointed out. Bitter much? What I have heard, and do believe, is that we are the closest to the way I believe. If that is sin, then so is using the bible version you think is closest to the original. Good grief, all the sin and lost folks in the world and we have to argue which Baptists are best. According to you, all Independent Baptist Churches are frauds. Nice, brother, real nice.

Then obviously you have not much research. As an example, here is a quote from one of your websites.

What exactly is a "Fundamentalist Baptist"? A Fundamentalist Baptist is, to begin with, a Baptist. Baptists believe in the public "baptism", ("immersing" in water), of those who claim a personal faith in Jesus Christ alone for their salvation. A Fundamentalist Baptist is an Independent Baptist. Independent Baptists reject membership in religious denominations such as the Southern Baptist Convention, believing instead in "the autonomy of the local church". A Fundamentalist Baptist is also a Fundamental Baptist, which means that he or she believes in the "fundamental truths" of Christianity which were explained in "The Fundamentals", (a series of booklets from the early nineteen hundreds).

http://fundamentalistbaptist.com/

I am really sick and tired of people setting themselves above and demeaning the church I choose to worship in. The comments I made are very tame and better than deserved.

 

[Bronconagurski]

Then obviously you have not much research. As an example, here is a quote from one of your websites.

What exactly is a "Fundamentalist Baptist"? A Fundamentalist Baptist is, to begin with, a Baptist. Baptists believe in the public "baptism", ("immersing" in water), of those who claim a personal faith in Jesus Christ alone for their salvation. A Fundamentalist Baptist is an Independent Baptist. Independent Baptists reject membership in religious denominations such as the Southern Baptist Convention, believing instead in "the autonomy of the local church". A Fundamentalist Baptist is also a Fundamental Baptist, which means that he or she believes in the "fundamental truths" of Christianity which were explained in "The Fundamentals", (a series of booklets from the early nineteen hundreds).

http://fundamentalistbaptist.com/


I am really sick and tired of people setting themselves above and demeaning the church I choose to worship in. The comments I made are very tame and better than deserved.

That's it, get all that bitterness out. It's not one of my websites. You do get the idea of Independent, don't you? No one defines our church except our statements of faith and our behavior. That being said, how dare that website say that a Baptist must be baptized, or have a personal faith in Jesus Christ alone for their salvation? As far as the rhetoric about the SBC, why would an Independent Baptist join the SBC? It's the SBC that is recruiting and trying to change Independent Baptist Churches in my experience. Regardless, nothing is said about the SBC at our church, nor on our website. Get a grip. Next you will be starting litigation to make them take that back. Sheeesh. No wonder the world thinks that Baptists act worse than they do sometimes.

 

[Revmitchell]

Yep non SBC Baptist churches have a big habit of trying to assert what they think they know about SBC churches. They are most often wrong, inflammatory, and ungodly in their words and actions on this issue.

 

[saturneptune]

That's it, get all that bitterness out. It's not one of my websites. You do get the idea of Independent, don't you? No one defines our church except our statements of faith and our behavior. That being said, how dare that website say that a Baptist must be baptized, or have a personal faith in Jesus Christ alone for their salvation? As far as the rhetoric about the SBC, why would an Independent Baptist join the SBC? It's the SBC that is recruiting and trying to change Independent Baptist Churches in my experience. Regardless, nothing is said about the SBC at our church, nor on our website. Get a grip. Next you will be starting litigation to make them take that back. Sheeesh. No wonder the world thinks that Baptists act worse than they do sometimes.

You are as good at setting up strawmen as your religious group. The SBC also has personal faith in Jesus Christ, and baptize by immersion on profession of faith, yet, you and your buddies choose to create a false divide. If the world sees Baptists as worse, the impression rests squarely on your shoulders.

 

[annsni]

It seems as if the unbiblical evangelism methodology found in many seeker friendly churches have infiltrated the Fundamentalist movement. Friendship evangelism is very popular in the seeker churches and also seems popular in some IFB churches.

I'm grateful that friendship evangelism has come into the IFB churches. Every.single.person that I have seen come to Christ did so through the personal touch and friendship of a believer in Jesus Christ.

Sad as it is, but the singles ministry in my church has gone down the slide and allowed this unbiblical methodology to dictate their practices. The leader does not believe in the word of God and always uses his experience and opinions as the authority over what the Bible clearly teaches

If he does not believe the Word of God, then he is wrong. However the remainder of your quote speaks more clearly of the situation.

in Mark, The Acts of the Apostles, among other places.

In other words, he's not following your method of evangelism so he is wrong. However, what was the method of evangelism that Jesus had? Friendship ministry, street preaching and personal interaction with new people.

[I am so sad and think I have had enough of serving in their nursing home ministry.

That is sad. I'm sorry you feel like you can't minister to the nursing home residents unless you do it your way.

If I can't proclaim the word of God but have to somehow be a "friend" and hope that one will come to life this way, then I am seriously doing something wrong.

Where does anyone say that you can't proclaim the Word of God and instead have to be a friend? Why are these two mutually exclusive?

I am sad very sad indeed of all this and Satan's presence in the church. While God "can" use other ways to reach people, the way He reaches people in the Bible is primarily through preaching.

Yes, Satan's presence is in many churches but it is not because they won't just open air street preach. That is not at all the measure of a godly church.

Evangelist - I know that you are a voracious reader. Can I challenge you to read an amazing testimony of "friendship ministry" couple with the truth of the Word of God? You can do a search online and just read the online accounts of Rosaria Butterfield or you can get her book called "An Unlikely Convert". It's an absolutely amazing testimony of how God used a pastor and his wife, along with this woman's doctoral studies to have her life forever changed. Tell me how street preaching would have turned this lesbian atheist's heart to the Lord better than how He did it in this situation.

 

[Bronconagurski]

You are as good at setting up strawmen as your religious group. The SBC also has personal faith in Jesus Christ, and baptise by immersion on profession of faith, yet, you and your buddies choose to create a false divide. If the world sees Baptists as worse, the impression rests squarely on your shoulders.

I am not the one paying the blame game, so don't spout your rhetoric toward me. You don't like what that website puts up, then take it up with them, and quit whining about it. What some other church or person says about IBF does not define it for everyone. You are acting like the MSM do, putting Conservative Christians in the same boat with religious nuts such as Islamic Fundamentalists. That is wrong. You have a problem with someone, be a man and take it up with them. Whining never solved anything. That is biblical, or do you want to impugn the bible as well?

 

[saturneptune]

Yep non SBC Baptist churches have a big habit of trying to assert what they think they know about SBC churches. They are most often wrong, inflammatory, and ungodly in their words and actions on this issue.

Amen to that, and this quote is also kind compared to what they deserve.

 

[Bronconagurski]

Yep non SBC Baptist churches have a big habit of trying to assert what they think they know about SBC churches. They are most often wrong, inflammatory, and ungodly in their words and actions on this issue.

Funny, I have never heard anything about SBC churches in all the years I have been an IFB, except for some of the young preachers we send out and support that have joined some of these churches and minister in them. Boy, aren't we terrible, helping out those bad SBC churches? You are doing the same thing to all IFB churches that you claim is happening to you. You do see the hypocrisy in this, right?

 

[saturneptune]

I am not the one paying the blame game, so don't spout your rhetoric toward me. You don't like what that website puts up, then take it up with them, and quit whining about it. What some other church or person says about IBF does not define it for everyone. You are acting like the MSM do, putting Conservative Christians in the same boat with religious nuts such as Islamic Fundamentalists. That is wrong. You have a problem with someone, be a man and take it up with them. Whining never solved anything. That is biblical, or do you want to impugn the bible as well?

You poor thing, would you like some cheese with your whine? Oh, I forgot, you abstain.

 

[Bronconagurski]

You poor thing, would you like some cheese with your whine? Oh, I forgot, you abstain.

No, you are the whiner. I spoke my mind about you, to you. I did not go on some other website and complain about you like you are doing about other IFB websites, and then trying to say all IFB churches are like that. Whining is when you complain about someone else without confronting that person. I notice you had no comment when I said that our church has sent our preacher boys to SBC churches. That's ok, it's hard to admit when your strawman is burnt up, I understand that. Get a little gumption and confront the websites you have problems with. Sheesh. If I have a problem with an SBC church, I will confront that church. That is biblical. But I have friends, teachers, preachers, all fellow Christians that are members of SBC churches. If I were like you, I would condemn them for your hypocrisy. But I realize everyone isn't as bitter and resentful as you are.

 

[Monster]

I'm grateful that friendship evangelism has come into the IFB churches. Every.single.person that I have seen come to Christ did so through the personal touch and friendship of a believer in Jesus Christ.



If he does not believe the Word of God, then he is wrong. However the remainder of your quote speaks more clearly of the situation.



In other words, he's not following your method of evangelism so he is wrong. However, what was the method of evangelism that Jesus had? Friendship ministry, street preaching and personal interaction with new people.



That is sad. I'm sorry you feel like you can't minister to the nursing home residents unless you do it your way.



Where does anyone say that you can't proclaim the Word of God and instead have to be a friend? Why are these two mutually exclusive?



Yes, Satan's presence is in many churches but it is not because they won't just open air street preach. That is not at all the measure of a godly church.

Evangelist - I know that you are a voracious reader. Can I challenge you to read an amazing testimony of "friendship ministry" couple with the truth of the Word of God? You can do a search online and just read the online accounts of Rosaria Butterfield or you can get her book called "An Unlikely Convert". It's an absolutely amazing testimony of how God used a pastor and his wife, along with this woman's doctoral studies to have her life forever changed. Tell me how street preaching would have turned this lesbian atheist's heart to the Lord better than how He did it in this situation.

Nothing but net :thumbsup:

Great post, great responses. I couldn't agree more.

 

[saturneptune]

No, you are the whiner. I spoke my mind about you, to you. I did not go on some other website and complain about you like you are doing about other IFB websites, and then trying to say all IFB churches are like that. Whining is when you complain about someone else without confronting that person. I notice you had no comment when I said that our church has sent our preacher boys to SBC churches. That's ok, it's hard to admit when your strawman is burnt up, I understand that. Get a little gumption and confront the websites you have problems with. Sheesh. If I have a problem with an SBC church, I will confront that church. That is biblical. But I have friends, teachers, preachers, all fellow Christians that are members of SBC churches. If I were like you, I would condemn them for your hypocrisy. But I realize everyone isn't as bitter and resentful as you are.

Hey here is an idea. Create new strawmen and seperate from the fundamentalist movement. Then you could start a fundamentalist fundamentalist church.

 

[Revmitchell]

Funny, I have never heard anything about SBC churches in all the years I have been an IFB, except for some of the young preachers we send out and support that have joined some of these churches and minister in them. Boy, aren't we terrible, helping out those bad SBC churches? You are doing the same thing to all IFB churches that you claim is happening to you. You do see the hypocrisy in this, right?

You are either very sheltered or just not being honest.

 

[saturneptune]

No, you are the whiner. I spoke my mind about you, to you. I did not go on some other website and complain about you like you are doing about other IFB websites, and then trying to say all IFB churches are like that. Whining is when you complain about someone else without confronting that person. I notice you had no comment when I said that our church has sent our preacher boys to SBC churches. That's ok, it's hard to admit when your strawman is burnt up, I understand that. Get a little gumption and confront the websites you have problems with. Sheesh. If I have a problem with an SBC church, I will confront that church. That is biblical. But I have friends, teachers, preachers, all fellow Christians that are members of SBC churches. If I were like you, I would condemn them for your hypocrisy. But I realize everyone isn't as bitter and resentful as you are.

I have no idea what you mean by "preacher boys" but the SBC does not need your help. The Bible is the only guide we need, and certainly not any advice from a holier than thou crowd. Also, no one needs your gumption. If you have a problem with a SBC church, then move on. I doubt that action will cause anyone to lose their salvation.